TheRPGSite

The Lounge => Help Desk => Topic started by: Spinachcat on August 19, 2019, 06:49:44 PM

Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: Spinachcat on August 19, 2019, 06:49:44 PM
It obvious the culture war is raging inside the hobby. Clearly, we want everyone here to speak freely about these issues, but at the same time, we need the RPG Main Board to be about RPGs and only RPGs. I suggest the creation of a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum for any threads about any real world political or real world cultural issues involved with any games.

The Politics in Games subforum would be not be hidden like RPGPundit's Forum, but easily searched for just like the Other Games or Main forum. The threads would show up in the New Posts section, but it would keep the RPG Main Board more focused on gaming.

Especially because the next two years (or more) are going to be a Category 5 social media shitstorm.

What say you?
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: jhkim on August 22, 2019, 12:26:20 AM
I'd support this. There seems to be plenty to discuss about politics in games, but it does clash with more practical gaming discussion.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: Aglondir on August 22, 2019, 12:35:48 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1100142
It obvious the culture war is raging inside the hobby. Clearly, we want everyone here to speak freely about these issues, but at the same time, we need the RPG Main Board to be about RPGs and only RPGs. I suggest the creation of a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum for any threads about any real world political or real world cultural issues involved with any games.

The Politics in Games subforum would be not be hidden like RPGPundit's Forum, but easily searched for just like the Other Games or Main forum. The threads would show up in the New Posts section, but it would keep the RPG Main Board more focused on gaming.

Especially because the next two years (or more) are going to be a Category 5 social media shitstorm.

What say you?


Yes.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: crkrueger on August 22, 2019, 03:34:46 AM
100% agreed.
There's no way to avoid talking about politics without losing some relevancy as there's an entire wing of the playerbase as well as most of the staff in the largest companies in the industry who want to weaponize RPGs for their Cultural War.

That having been said, sometimes I just want to talk about RPGs without seeing a rundown of the latest idiocy the fucktards have gotten up to.  I admit lately I've been doing a lot of that elsewhere.

Politics In Gaming solves that perfectly.

RPG Forum - Gaming Only
Politics in Gaming - The latest assaults from the Usual Suspects.  The local front of the RPG Culture War.
Pundit's Forum - Non-gaming politics or anything else as long as Pundit keeps it open.

Make it so. Kirk tested, Picard Approved.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: Omega on August 22, 2019, 03:38:42 AM
If the usual suspects will actually adhere to it. Then sure.

But we have several posters who just love to derail threads with their latest idiot screed.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: jeff37923 on August 22, 2019, 03:55:19 AM
Quote from: Omega;1100500
If the usual suspects will actually adhere to it. Then sure.

But we have several posters who just love to derail threads with their latest idiot screed.

^^This^^

The same nitwits who keep dragging politics into gaming do not care about their threads having to be in a different forum, they will just plop them in to where they believe that their signal will get the most bandwidth.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: crkrueger on August 22, 2019, 03:55:37 AM
Quote from: Omega;1100500
If the usual suspects will actually adhere to it. Then sure.

But we have several posters who just love to derail threads with their latest idiot screed.


Heh, I meant threads about the latest Usual Suspects, ie. the SJW gaming crowd.  If people can't keep that out of the RPG Forum with TWO places to talk about politics...well, someone will die on that hill, then everyone else will be a little more circumspect. :D
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: ArrozConLeche on August 22, 2019, 09:12:51 AM
Or one could just, you know, ignore the threads one's not interested in like I suppose you ignore the Pundit's forum.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: GeekyBugle on August 22, 2019, 11:42:49 AM
I'm okey with it.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: HappyDaze on August 22, 2019, 12:44:46 PM
If adding another bathroom keeps people from shitting all around the rest of the house,  then I'm all for it. Unfortunately, I think potty training has been neglected for far too long for it to really help.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: AmazingOnionMan on August 22, 2019, 12:55:55 PM
I think HappyDaze has just spouted a uncomfortable truth.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: Spinachcat on August 23, 2019, 04:27:42 AM
From his butt! :D

I agree with HappyDaze, and I'm sure there will be an adjustment period as we return to NO politics in the main forum and the mods will have to shift some threads into the Politics in Gaming forum, but in general, I believe most posters here can adhere to the rules - especially as the idea is NOT to hide or diminish any discussions, just sort them out away from the Main Forum.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: ArrozConLeche on August 23, 2019, 08:23:09 AM
Whatever the owners want is okay with me. I'm just amused that apparently adults can't ignore topics they don't like.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: Brad on August 27, 2019, 12:16:56 PM
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1100687
Whatever the owners want is okay with me. I'm just amused that apparently adults can't ignore topics they don't like.

And yet you felt the need to reply to this thread with an oblique snipe at people complaining the forum is being invaded by retards. Doesn't that undermine your entire remark?
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: Mind Crime on August 29, 2019, 01:03:55 AM
As long as it doesn't end up as Tangency v2.0 I can see it as a useful subforum. But this site and its users, from what I've seen through years of lurking, have done a pretty damn good job avoiding that kind of pitfall.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: JRT on August 29, 2019, 08:34:11 AM
The Pundit weighed in on this, it's not going to happen.

https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?41051-GENERAL-WARNING-OFF-TOPIC-Political-Posts-on-this-Subforum
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: ArrozConLeche on August 29, 2019, 09:11:25 AM
Quote from: Brad;1101049
And yet you felt the need to reply to this thread with an oblique snipe at people complaining the forum is being invaded by retards. Doesn't that undermine your entire remark?

I'm not the one asking for a new forum for on-topic discussions I don't happen to like.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: Koltar on August 29, 2019, 06:49:27 PM
This is a Silly idea

Just stop contaminating Gaming with politics.

See?
Simply solved.

Ed C.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: Spinachcat on August 30, 2019, 04:22:54 AM
Koltar, we're not the ones poisoning gaming with politics. That's not the issue.

The issue is "personalities" in the RPG "community" OR game companies themselves are shoehorning politics into our hobby.

I don't see how RPGPundit's solution is going to work. As entities are shoving politics into gaming, any prolonged discussion of what's being shoved into the game is going to divert from just its presence in that game to the wider issue in society.

As tensions rise in the next 2 years (both pre and post election), I expect more politically motivated stupidity in the hobby.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: Koltar on August 30, 2019, 01:05:00 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1101544
Koltar, ......

As tensions rise in the next 2 years (both pre and post election), I expect more politically motivated stupidity in the hobby.

Why? How?
How in any way does the upcoming American Presidential election impact any Dungeons & Dragons campaign or game session? (Or Pathfinder)
The current PTUS - Donald Trump is not 'in' any D&D or Pathfinder setting. I normally run Sci Fi games, so I'm a bit odd. In the Star Trek gaming universe there is no 'Trump' running for Federation President...or Bernie Sanders, or Elizabeth Warren. That would be just be silly and weird. If I run something in the TRAVELLER universe of the 57th century - there is no reason any of the current presidential candidates would show up ...or their policies and politics.

If some people are that obsessed with politics then I feel sad for them and maybe a bit of pity.

Gaming should be an escape from all the silly and stupid stuff in regular life - not an excuse to rehash arguments you might not be winning away from the game table.

- Ed C.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: jeff37923 on August 30, 2019, 06:01:15 PM
Quote from: Koltar;1101575
Why? How?
How in any way does the upcoming American Presidential election impact any Dungeons & Dragons campaign or game session? (Or Pathfinder)
The current PTUS - Donald Trump is not 'in' any D&D or Pathfinder setting. I normally run Sci Fi games, so I'm a bit odd. In the Star Trek gaming universe there is no 'Trump' running for Federation President...or Bernie Sanders, or Elizabeth Warren. That would be just be silly and weird. If I run something in the TRAVELLER universe of the 57th century - there is no reason any of the current presidential candidates would show up ...or their policies and politics.

If some people are that obsessed with politics then I feel sad for them and maybe a bit of pity.

Gaming should be an escape from all the silly and stupid stuff in regular life - not an excuse to rehash arguments you might not be winning away from the game table.

- Ed C.

You need to tell that to other people. (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?35534-Game-designers-for-Hillary&highlight=gamers+hilary)

Like the Con Committee at GenCon. (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?31945-Gen-Con-to-Possibly-Leave-Indiana-politics)
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: Spinachcat on August 30, 2019, 07:28:21 PM
Quote from: Koltar;1101575
Why? How?


Because there is a culture war raging in the Western World and its soaked deep into the online hobby community, and somewhat into the offline hobby experience. As the MSM, academia and most prominent gaming forums have taken the so-called "progressive" or "SJW" side of the culture war, free speech sites like ours are the few places left to discuss these issues. Depending on where one stands in the culture war, these issues are a good or bad thing.

And these discussions have grown increasingly heated in the past few years and there's every social indicator these discussions will grow even further heated in the next two years.


Quote from: Koltar;1101575
How in any way does the upcoming American Presidential election impact any Dungeons & Dragons campaign or game session?


The culture war is everywhere unfortunately, and there is no common ground between the two sides. The election is just the latest focal point of the culture war and 2020's final result is seen by both sides as incredibly important for the fate of the future culture.


Quote from: Koltar;1101575
If some people are that obsessed with politics then I feel sad for them and maybe a bit of pity.


Politics is downstream of culture.

Politics have become a key aspect of personal identity and how people judge others. Allegiance to a certain political side is an affirmation of where you stand in the culture war, thus defining your vision of the future. As both sides are competing to achieve vastly different futures, the "obsession" is less about "politics" as defined in prior decades.


Quote from: Koltar;1101575
Gaming should be an escape from all the silly and stupid stuff in regular life - not an excuse to rehash arguments you might not be winning away from the game table.


You are entirely correct.

That's why I quash political/culture talk at my game table, and exactly why I started this thread.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: Bedrockbrendan on September 04, 2019, 08:58:07 AM
I do think this would make a difference. I sometimes pop in and check the main forum, and move on when I see three or more threads on political stuff.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: S'mon on September 28, 2019, 01:12:43 PM
Quote from: CRKrueger;1100498
100% agreed.
RPG Forum - Gaming Only
Politics in Gaming - The latest assaults from the Usual Suspects.  The local front of the RPG Culture War.
Pundit's Forum - Non-gaming politics or anything else as long as Pundit keeps it open.


Yeah, I'd approve of having RPG gaming threads separate from RPG politics threads. They scratch different itches and the politics tends to crowd out the gaming here, mostly because it's one of very few places where the political/cultural issues can be discussed freely. So eg I might end up posting a gaming thread on a different forum and politics here. If there were a gaming-only forum I think there'd be more gaming discussion. Or if not the politics forum would explode. :)
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: RPGPundit on September 29, 2019, 04:16:27 AM
Looking at the first page of the general forum, ignoring the stickied threads, only 3/10 are related to the culture-war side of the hobby. The rest are straightforward threads on gaming.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: estar on October 03, 2019, 10:50:42 PM
I resigned as moderator over this issue as it was getting bad and I haven't seen it get better. So yes I concur there should be a politics in gaming sub forum.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: GIMME SOME SUGAR on October 04, 2019, 05:30:37 AM
A politics and religion in gaming sub forum.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: RPGPundit on October 07, 2019, 08:36:37 PM
So, there's absolutely no way I'll allow for the marginalization of the very real problem our hobby faces into some lateral subforum, just because some people are uncomfortable with the fact that our entire civilization is in the middle of a massive Culture War. I didn't start it, our side aren't the ones who infiltrated EVERY AREA of our culture and DEMAND that it be politicized, but I will damn well end be the one who helps to end them.


So if your goal is that we shouldn't get to talk about the SJW attacks on every fucking thing we hold dear, in threads where those subjects would be relevant, in the main forum, you aren't going to get what you want.


HOWEVER: for those of you who are moral cowards, or burnt out and needing a safe space, or are the lukewarm mushy middle moderates who "don't want to take a side" and want to be spit out by anyone with convictions, then fine. I could be willing to start a subforum that was inferior to the Main Forum, a ghetto forum, which would be "RPG Discussion NO Politics Allowed".  It would be moderated EXTREMELY strictly to insure the protection of special snowflakes from anything resembling politics.


So in the main forum people could continue to post about ANYTHING that was about the hobby, including non-political threads like the vast majority of the main forums threads currently are, but there would be a separate forum for people so goddamn sensitive that their eyes can't even bear to see the topic thread of a subject that could be controversial to them.

What do you think?
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: HappyDaze on October 07, 2019, 09:57:21 PM
I think you're posting angry, and that's rarely a good idea.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: Spinachcat on October 08, 2019, 04:37:23 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit;1108142
What do you think?


I think you're in Uruguay and I'm in Los Angeles so the Culture War for you is Twitter pissing matches and for me it's my fucking city, state, nation and culture being torn apart at the seams. My hometown of New York City just made saying "illegal alien" or "illegal immigrant" a punishable offense (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/new-york-city-bans-use-illegals-illegal-alien-n1062161). And I'm just grateful I'm not in London or Sweden.

The ONLY reason I suggested the idea of a subforum was because I felt it was for the benefit of our forum members. The US, UK and EU members of this forum are often neck deep in Culture War bullshit at work or with friends and families and RPGing was supposed to be a fun escape from all real life bullshit.  Let's not forget we have forum members who put food on the table for their family at jobs where they keep their heads down to stay employed.


Quote from: RPGPundit;1108142
So, there's absolutely no way I'll allow for the marginalization of the very real problem our hobby faces into some lateral subforum, just because some people are uncomfortable with the fact that our entire civilization is in the middle of a massive Culture War. I didn't start it, our side aren't the ones who infiltrated EVERY AREA of our culture and DEMAND that it be politicized, but I will damn well end be the one who helps to end them.


As I've said before, I understand why you're choosing this option and in many ways, I agree with your choice. "Our side" is everyone to the right of Mao and we didn't start this spiral down into insanity either in the culture or the hobby.


Quote from: RPGPundit;1108142
I could be willing to start a subforum that was inferior to the Main Forum, a ghetto forum, which would be "RPG Discussion NO Politics Allowed".  It would be moderated EXTREMELY strictly to insure the protection of special snowflakes from anything resembling politics.


Fuck that noise for so many reasons.

But keep this in mind. If you want to stomp this SJW bullshit, you will need a big tent full of imperfect allies to win. AKA, the same coalition Trump needs to get re-elected. I know you hate the Mushy Middle and I understand why, but if the Anti-SJW brigade goes down our own purity test route, we're fucked. Utterly fucked.

We need to be the side with diverse opinions, but committed to the common goal.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: ArrozConLeche on October 08, 2019, 09:33:04 AM
Again, as adults, you should be able to scroll past any on topic post you don't like. Simple as that. But it seems just seeing a political title bothers some wilting flowers too much.

Seriously, take the Pundit's offer to create a safe space just for you.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: Koltar on October 08, 2019, 11:44:39 PM
Its STILL a Bad idea.

Don't like politics invading gaming? Then don't mix it into your games.
Zheesh! That is easily solved.

Don't like it at a game table" Then call it out and confront it right there and then.

How in the hell does what political party you are or how you voted impact on how your characters will defeat the Orcs coming to the attack the village you have been staying in?

- Ed C.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: estar on October 13, 2019, 03:03:09 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;1108142
. I could be willing to start a subforum that was inferior to the Main Forum, a ghetto forum, which would be "RPG Discussion NO Politics Allowed".  It would be moderated EXTREMELY strictly to insure the protection of special snowflakes from anything resembling politics.


Sounds good to me for this site.
Title: We need a POLITICS IN GAMING subforum
Post by: estar on October 13, 2019, 03:39:55 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;1108142
So, there's absolutely no way I'll allow for the marginalization of the very real problem our hobby faces into some lateral subforum, just because some people are uncomfortable with the fact that our entire civilization is in the middle of a massive Culture War. I didn't start it, our side aren't the ones who infiltrated EVERY AREA of our culture and DEMAND that it be politicized, but I will damn well end be the one who helps to end them.


That all well and good for you however I want just want to talk about gaming. Nor do I agree your approach in regards to the larger issue. Finally you neglect the part that you adopted the mantle of a pundit as your approach to talk about the hobby and to market your works.  We have discuss these issues publicly and privately.

To recap the salient points, you long held Marshall MuLuhan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_McLuhan)'s idea that the message is the medium is a truism. However most of his ideas and other similar ideas were forged in a area where mass communication was expensive both in terms to setup and to utilize. Along with technical issues like there can only be so many over the air channel before their is interference. As a consequence the variety and means of communications were limited for several decades.

In contrast today thanks to the internet mass communication is inexpensive and easy to setup and to utilize. Your approach is to fight over control of the medium to ensure that the opposition doesn't have control out. My approach is to advocate and teach measures that removes the possibility of any type of control from the equations. It doesn't matter what any side believes, says, or tries to do if there are no levers one can manipulate to prevent other form releasing their work in the form they see fit.

Next is that punditry has long been the way you marketed yourself and your works. My view is that your fight over allowing gaming politics in the rpg forum is about the number of views it receives over the other forums on the site. Since being a pundit is part of your on-line personae. Allowing gaming politics posts also allows your advocacy posts. Since the RPG forum gets the most view is give you the visibility that your marketing needs. So I have trouble accepting the altruism implied by the above as anything other as something that conveniently serves your marketing needs.

I realize it easy to read the above as an attack on commercialism particularly when done in a brash style. I don't have a problem with people using these methods. What I have a problem with is people not being forthcoming about why they do the things they do. Which in I feel is the case here in regards to allowing gaming politics in the RPG forum.