Should it stay, or go?

RPGPundit

Keep it, in exactly the shape that it is now.

As it is now, I only look at it very rarely if the most recent topic name catches me... And more often than not, just after few posts it turns out as not worth the click.
So as it is now for me, the signal-to-noise ratio-has become better because a lot of junk is automatically filtered.

As always I will vote no, and state that removing this outlet will only result in disruption of the rest of the site. No one has to read any of those threads, no has to participate. What does it hurt?

There are plenty of places folk can go if they want to talk about politics. I suggest that an RPG forum isn't the best facillitator.

It's not a question of better places to discuss politics. It's a natural thing for a discussion to digress at points, and for people who share similar interests, in this case, RPG's to want to discuss other things. Also, given how important the promise of free speech has been tot his site, this is a pretty ungainly move.

I get some users are pretty unhappy with a few specific users for being douche bags, but is that really a good reason to shut it all down? I understand peoples frustration, even share them from time to time-but you don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

See, I am torn here. I really have little use for the political forum as it stands. This has everything to do with 4 users and little to do with content, what is supposed to go there or even the fights that can break out. Adding to this problem is that, I believe, the number of political forum problem posters will only grow over time.

So, we could take option 1 but that just means we get more static in the OT forum and I do think it serves a good purpose.

Option 2 is little better as, I believe, the forum is of little use except to those 4 users. Threads will get closed, etc. making it annoying to keep trying to discuss matters by starting new threads.

Option 3 just diminishes the site, IMO. Nothing world ending but it is nice at times to discuss other things besides RPGs. Also, if we were to ban political discussion, it would have to be all or nothing otherwise Pundit's forum would become the new political forum.

So, of the options, I do not see a good one. Possible some bans as mentioned in the closed thread? I dislike such restrictions but they really do not seem to get it...

Bill

Quote from: HinterWelt;278850Option 3 just diminishes the site, IMO. Nothing world ending but it is nice at times to discuss other things besides RPGs. Also, if we were to ban political discussion, it would have to be all or nothing otherwise Pundit's forum would become the new political forum.

No it wouldn't. Perhaps I should clarify. Option #3 would stipulate that:
1. Politics would be closed.
2. Off Topic would be changed into something like "Geek Media", where it would be ok to discuss movies, tv, comics, general geek culture stuff, weird (or interesting) science, and other things of general nerd interest. Political or religious discussion would not be allowed.
3. Over in The RPGPundit's Forum, only I would be allowed to START politically themed threads. In those threads, people would be able to discuss the specific topic I have raised. People (who are not me) would NOT be allowed to start threads on the Pundit's forum about politics, unless those politics were somehow directly Pundit-related (which is what that forum is for).

QuoteSo, of the options, I do not see a good one. Possible some bans as mentioned in the closed thread? I dislike such restrictions but they really do not seem to get it...

Bill

The question of imposing bans is being discussed among the admins.

RPGPundit

Option 3 cracks me up...at least for a site with origins so steeped in being able to say just about anything. I mean, would Pundit bring up the Blogo thing from way down there in Uruguay? And yet, there are several people interested, and more than a few from Illinois.

I'm always left wondering along the same lines as SP - what is the big deal when one can easily ignore posters, threads, topics, and forums? I mean, I agree with OHT that perhaps an RPG forum is not the best place to discuss politics. But that doesn't mean I want to stop all political discussion except that which interests Pundy - might as well make the site just an extension of Pundit blog at that point. Besides, with a flick of the mouse, I can pretty much make this a non-political site anyway.

So I'm left wondering...and the only thing I can possible think of is that it's a pain to administer. If this is the reason behind this recent and persistent push to Do Something (TM), I'd like to understand it better.  Perhaps some discussion about if it is the real reason behind the push and, if so, why it's a PitA to administer would be in order?

Otherwise, I'll wipe my own...nose...thanks.

Things are not broken.  Don't fix them.

My suggestion, as impractical as it may seem to some, is to kill the Politics sub-forum; discourage, but not prohibit, discussion of politics in the Off-Topic forum, and; apply more intense scrutiny to the posts of members who appear to be here to discuss nothing but politics and/or to stir up trouble.  From the sound of things, you're already considering my last suggestion.

!i!

Quote from: James J Skach;278866Option 3 cracks me up...at least for a site with origins so steeped in being able to say just about anything. I mean, would Pundit bring up the Blogo thing from way down there in Uruguay? And yet, there are several people interested, and more than a few from Illinois.

I'm always left wondering along the same lines as SP - what is the big deal when one can easily ignore posters, threads, topics, and forums? I mean, I agree with OHT that perhaps an RPG forum is not the best place to discuss politics. But that doesn't mean I want to stop all political discussion except that which interests Pundy - might as well make the site just an extension of Pundit blog at that point. Besides, with a flick of the mouse, I can pretty much make this a non-political site anyway.

So I'm left wondering...and the only thing I can possible think of is that it's a pain to administer. If this is the reason behind this recent and persistent push to Do Something (TM), I'd like to understand it better.  Perhaps some discussion about if it is the real reason behind the push and, if so, why it's a PitA to administer would be in order?

Otherwise, I'll wipe my own...nose...thanks.

On the one hand, you have a point, James. Certainly one vociferous voice asking me to intervene in OT/ Politics has been from my own Admins.
I think the deal isn't that its harder to administer, but that the feeling is that having political discussion on this site intentionally attracts the extremists (Cavscout, Jackalope) who some of the admins feel wouldn't even be here if there wasn't a place to talk about politics (I don't know if that's true or not, maybe not with Jackalope, don't know about Cavscout). And that the presence of this constant childish bickering going on in the politics and off-topic forums are giving the site a bad name, causing people to leave (I hope he doesn't mind me mentioning it, but I got a PM from David R a few days ago, where he essentially said he was no longer going to be active on this site because he really didn't want his name being associated with it).  Meanwhile, new people who might have come might get turned off by the politics forum and certain poster's shenanigans, while those who do come might come just to argue politics, which makes us more Tangency-like and moves us away from the original purpose of this site: RPGs.

That's the argument in favour of changing stuff.  The argument against has been said on this thread already: everyone is free to do what they want, no one is FORCED to go to the politics forum, those who do deserve whatever annoyance they get and are just trying to "ruin the game" for everyone just because certain people are saying certain things they don't like there; and I shouldn't care who chooses to leave, if they can't handle the heat, they don't belong in the kitchen.

What leads me to consider this whole question is the one obvious truth that this is not thePOLITICSsite, its theRPGsite. There's no reason why there HAS to be a place to talk politics here, or even to have off-topics discussions in general. These things are there mainly because I also like talking about these things (and yes, you will note that there is no option that will involve ME not being allowed to start political threads in my own forum; that's not in the cards).

So, hence the consultation thread: I want to see what the overall feelings about all this are, before making any final decisions. The Politics forum is not an ESSENTIAL part of the site; and the right to speak freely is about the topic of this site: RPGs, it doesn't mean that you have to also be given a right to go on a long diatribe about atheists or republicans or the Midlands Bank. So I want to see whether the majority of interested posters here want those sorts of discussions to be a part of this site, or if they feel the site would be better (and do better) if it stayed focused on-topic.

RPGPundit

I'd like the Politics subforum to remain, because like the Off Topic forum, it is a relief valve for those discussion topics. If it did not exist, then the political topics would creep into Off Topic or other forum sections - which would create disruptions to a larger area of the theRPGsite then there is currently.

Maybe a disclaimer could be placed on the Politics subforum declaring it a free-fire zone or signifying that you Enter At Your Own Risk.

I'm a little bit pissed off that I'm being blamed for shit.  The Israel thread that just got closed?  Pundit says he closed it because of CavScout and I, but I had already bailed on that thread, and bailed as soon as it was clear CavScout was up to his stupid tit-for-tat ignore-everything-that-is-said crap.   That's what my "Heil Hitler" line was: me blowing off the conversation and leaving CavScout to annoy other people.

I haven't even been participating much in the last few weeks.  Part of it is that my gaming group broke up and so I'm just not in the mood to talk about gaming, but a big part of it is I'm just fucking sick of CavScout's bullshit.  Before I left I was already ignoring him and not interacting with him.  And notice that when I left, CavScout's bullshit didn't change at all. He just argued with different people, in the same obnoxious way.

There was a period on this site when we didn't need a politics subforum, and we didn't discuss this bullshit constantly.  The event that brought that period to an end and lead us into this current period?  The arrival of CavScout.

I'm getting really sick of being blamed for the damage CavScout does just because my naive willingness to always give asswipes like him a second chance to not be a fucking troll leads me to getting trolled.

The problem is simple:  CavScout is a troll and that is his only reason forowning a computer.

Stop blaming me for the fact that CavScout is a fucking asshole.

I agree with James Skach, and you know how that makes me crazy.

Quote from: Jackalope;278907The Israel thread that just got closed?  Pundit says he closed it because of CavScout and I, but I had already bailed on that thread...

Agreed. And with a line that made even me laugh.

Quote from: Jackalope;278907...I'm just fucking sick of CavScout's bullshit.

Do what I did when I got sick of your bullshit: put him on ignore until you develop the fortitude to ignore him on your own.

edit: Or you could try to get him banned. If that doesn't work, you could always try again.

Quote from: Jackalope;278907There was a period on this site when we didn't need a politics subforum, and we didn't discuss this bullshit constantly.  The event that brought that period to an end and lead us into this current period?  The arrival of CavScout.

I thought it was the increased traffic leading up to the US election; that's what I recall from the conversations at the time. Anyway, the timing doesn't seem to match; he arrived in August, and the Politics subforum didn't start until a couple months later, as far as I can tell in response to threads like this one.