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Author Topic: Politics, Cavscout, and Jackalope.  (Read 13369 times)

gleichman

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« Reply #150 on: January 27, 2009, 12:28:55 PM »
Quote from: Engine;280803
Yeah, they're archival; both boards closed, and the remaining users moved to Animalball some years ago. Seriously, gleichman, you don't know the history of those people, or me, in any meaningful way, so probably you'd look less stupid if you'd stop trying to guess. You could ask questions, but you won't, because the truth doesn't concern you.


I'm not interest in asking questions about things years ago that can only be answered by people who have a vested interest in claiming success. Any buch of jackasses (you and Paul cases in point) can build up a post count. Hell, mob rule is famous for that- it's part of it's vary definition.

You want to prove a point- do it now, and do it on the same subjects that this site addresses. And see who does better. Otherwise you're blowing nothing but hot air.
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gleichman

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« Reply #151 on: January 27, 2009, 12:31:05 PM »
Quote from: Serious Paul;280806
*Shakes his head*

Ever time I think you've sunk as far as any asshole could, you prove me wrong. I know convicts with more class than you Gleichman.


Paul, by your own words you've stated that any act, any statment are moral equals. Don't try to hold the high ground you deny exists, it makes you a hyprocritc.

But then again, maybe that's exactly what you are.
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Serious Paul

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« Reply #152 on: January 27, 2009, 12:32:20 PM »
Blah, blah, blah. The usual story with you. Yawn. Let me know when you've got something real to say, otherwise I'm off to have some lunch, maybe do something that's actually entertaining.

gleichman

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« Reply #153 on: January 27, 2009, 12:34:19 PM »
Quote from: Engine;280804
A healthy forum requires administration. . .


Bah.. bah... bah.

More ancient history that doesn't matter, doesn't address the question, and again comes from someone with a vested interest in claiming success.

Put your money where your month is- restart you forums and get the hell out of other peoples business- even if it is Pundits. Heaven knows you have enough time to whine here- that's enough time to admin a "rule of the people" site.
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gleichman

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« Reply #154 on: January 27, 2009, 12:35:02 PM »
Quote from: Serious Paul;280810
Blah, blah, blah. The usual story with you. Yawn. Let me know when you've got something real to say, otherwise I'm off to have some lunch, maybe do something that's actually entertaining.


Like lie to yourself more. Yes, I can understand why you'd need some private time for that.
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Engine

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« Reply #155 on: January 27, 2009, 12:39:13 PM »
I feel bad for you, Brian, I really do. You made a couple of claims in ignorance that were demonstrably untrue, and your pride won't let you back up. The fact is, democratic moderation can and has worked, and if you don't believe me, ask any of the hundreds of members who aren't ignorant of the situation; we left a site with heavy moderation [dumpshock] to start our own, and it worked.

Would it work here? I don't know; that's certainly debatable. We were very fortunate to have a mature userbase who really understood the basic principles of the site, and a large group of people who'd been burned by heavy moderation. There is no doubt that the circumstances and the users were a major, major influence in the success of the site; the principles themselves are hardly universally-applicable. All I can do is share my own experiences with the issue at hand, and you can object all you want, but the evidence is all right there.

Sorry to have backed you into a corner; that wasn't my intention. Please, feel free to have the last word on the subject:
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gleichman

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« Reply #156 on: January 27, 2009, 12:51:45 PM »
Quote from: Engine;280814
I feel bad for you, Brian, I really do. You made a couple of claims in ignorance that were demonstrably untrue, and your pride won't let you back up.


There's nothing to back up to. My original point stands.

It was if you remember this:

Quote from: gleichman;280788
I think RPGPundit is basically a mirror Ron and of questionable worth as a human being. But he's at least better than the world of mob rule you'd like to see.

Except of course, you're basically lying here. If you wanted to see it, you'd go off and do it yourself. But you won't. You'd much rather tear down something another built and pat yourself on the back while you do it.



There wasn't anything there that says it can't be done.

Years ago about a website that I never heard of (but I did know about dumpshock) had no bearing on the point I was trying to make, and bring up your past with a dead site was a stupid play on Paul's part.

Put your money where your month is.

Leave. Go. Do.

Now.

And maybe this site would become a little more worth reading and posting at. Take your wingman Paul with you.
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« Reply #157 on: January 27, 2009, 02:19:50 PM »
Quote from: Engine;280781
With you, of course, as the ultimate arbiter of what is, and is not, an RPG. Making a perfectly unbiased judgment, of course.

I think the problem is that some people feel they've just swapped tyrants; the new one is less tyrannical, and possesses different "politics," but it's the fact of the tyranny itself that bothers some of us. You judge what's "disruptive," you judge what's an RPG, you judge when "how someone says something" matters; now, it's your house, so I play nice, but I - speaking only for myself, now - would prefer some sort of "rule by the people," in which these decisions are not made by a single mind, a single voice, but by the populace itself.

You could call it δημοκρατία, or dimokratia, from the Greek "dēmos," people, and "kratos," which not only means "rule," but also - and this is the important bit - strength. I believe rule by the people is stronger, less arbitrary, less dependent on the whims of one man, than rule by singular fiat. Or maybe I just like to have my say, and have it matter, in some small way.


Of course you do, because your mob rule (that's NOT how democracy works, by the way) would mean that whatever little clique got the most votes could make any rules they wanted.
That's how the RPG.net modclique started.

Meanwhile, the "constitutional democracy" we have here means that you are voting in favour of me being in charge of things here by the act of you being here and participating in this site that I own. In exchange, I have outlined very clearly what my own rules are, which (as per my own rules) you are free and allowed to disagree with because those rules include free speech, but not free to disregard.

The day the majority decides that they don't want me to be in charge, they'll go off and make a competing website that works; quite a few have tried already, thus far all have failed or languish in obscurity.

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« Reply #158 on: January 27, 2009, 02:23:10 PM »
Quote from: Serious Paul;280793
Yeah he doesn't maintain two separate boards at all. And they're not Bulldrek or Freespeech Alpha.  


Well... "maintain" is about the nicest term you can use there. His triumphal competitor-site dedicated to free speech and liberty from the tyranny of RPGPundit hasn't had a single entry since August of 2008.

Excuse me while I chuckle.

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« Reply #159 on: January 27, 2009, 02:25:45 PM »
Quote from: Engine;280804
A healthy forum requires administration; without an administrator, they will fall apart. We switched admins, but she didn't work out, and the userbase moved to Animalball, while my forums were closed. I rebuilt the original backups a few years ago so people could access their material - lots of game stuff on there, and a lot of history - and allowed existing users to continue posting, while not accepting new users.


So, the long and the short of it is, one way or the other, you failed, right?

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Engine

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« Reply #160 on: January 27, 2009, 02:28:46 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;280828
Of course you do, because your mob rule (that's NOT how democracy works, by the way) would mean that whatever little clique got the most votes could make any rules they wanted.

That's not really my experience, but I understand that it's yours. As I say, I can only share my own experiences, and I hardly expect you to turn the power you have over to everyone else; that would be most uncharacteristic of you.

Quote from: RPGPundit;280829
His triumphal competitor-site...

Competitor? Pundit, if a site that closed several years ago and is being archived online is a competitor, you're in bigger trouble than I thought! Please, don't get the impression that these are active websites, or websites that are in any way competing with you today; they're simply examples [and freespeech isn't a very good one, since that's more design exercise than forum, anyway] of democratically-moderated sites that worked just fine. There's nothing more to it than that, seriously.
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Engine

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« Reply #161 on: January 27, 2009, 02:30:50 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;280830
So, the long and the short of it is, one way or the other, you failed, right?

Yes, after ten years, 500,000+ posts, and me no longer having enough time to continue, I definitely failed. Mea culpa.
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gleichman

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« Reply #162 on: January 27, 2009, 02:40:47 PM »
Quote from: Engine;280832
Yes, after ten years, 500,000+ posts, and me no longer having enough time to continue, I definitely failed. Mea culpa.


Ten years during which I was actively searching for a Shadowrun resources and your site never entered the picture. Meanwhile Dumpshock continued on quite nicely, was a useful resource, is still running to this day, and was easily found by me.

And if anything Dump Shock seems to me to be better for your absence, and given that like draws like- likely the absence of your buddies like Paul too.

I call that last point a success for the general world. Please, oh please- duplicate that success again. Make therpgsite a better place.

Go prove you can do better than RPGPundit. Faster please.
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« Reply #163 on: January 27, 2009, 02:45:21 PM »
Quote from: hgjs;280649
The purpose of the site is free discussion of roleplaying games.  People often focus on the first part but forget the rest.


Probably because I've never heard this before. Pundit goes on and on about how the site is unmoderated, not about how parts of the site are unmoderated.

But, really, if the RPGsite is going to have a strong RPG - and that's something I agree with, by the way - why have an Off Topic section at all? Why spend time and energy on it, moderating it, creating subforums, etc.?

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« Reply #164 on: January 27, 2009, 02:49:30 PM »
Quote from: hgjs;280698
If people are driven away by free discussion of politics, that's completely different, and it makes sense to nip that in the bud.


No, it doesn't seem to. If the RPGSite is about RPGs, then I should be here for the RPG discussion. If I'm offended about political discussions, well, so what? I'm here for the RPGs. Now if the RPG discussion was offensive, that's another matter because that's my primary purpose in coming here...

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