TheRPGSite

As you know, these last few days we've been debating the future of political discussion on theRPGsite.  At the same time, the Admins have been having some pretty intense discussions about two posters who have received more complaints than pretty much anyone in the history of this forum.

On the subject of politics, you will be able to see that the conclusion of the public consultation was quite clear that people here still do want to talk politics. It was less clear as to whether or not they wanted to keep a specific Politics subforum.

Now, I was never very sure of the politics subforum in the first place, myself. I agreed to its creation because at that time, it was the elections, there were more political threads than usual, and.. guess who?... Cavscout and Jackalope were turning many of those threads into flamewars that drowned out non-political threads on OT.

However, the voting was very close, and one can argue that the Politics subforum creates a separation that keeps that certain type of discussion away from other areas.
So FOR THE MOMENT, the politics forum will stay. I may decide to reintegrate it with OT at any moment.

Now, regarding Jackalope and Cavscout. The admins had a discussion about this, and four of the Admins immediately and very strongly expressed themselves being in favour of banning Jackalope and Cavscout both from Politics and Off-topic. As usual, I found myself being the one most unwilling to take moderator action.

So in the end, and contrary to the wishes of the four other mods, I am going to forum-ban both Cavscout and Jackalope from the Politics sub-forum only.  That was a given, since the two, especially in combination, poisoned the well of the politics board so utterly that we had to have this whole debate in the first place.

Cavscout, Jackalope, both of you guys are relatively productive when you're talking about something other than politics, and I draw you both back to understanding that this is an RPG forum.  If either of you decide that because you can't argue politics on here anymore then you don't want to be here, I guess that's your deal, but it makes it really clear why you were really here in the first places, your motives are laid bare.

On the other hand, if you can get your political fix elsewhere, hopefully you will be able to keep posting for a long and peaceful time to come about gaming.
Of course, start to bring the same flaming or personal bullshit into other forums and things will not go well. And definitely do not bring politics into the other forums, or it will be your heads.

RPGPundit

Fuck this forum.

And fuck you too Pundit, and fuck all your faggot moderators who lump me in with CavScout -- an actual,intentional troll -- and fuck Hinterwelt and Spike and Jeff  and that rapist-in-waiting Koltar, and Engine and all the other stuff-shirt fucking HYPOCRITICAL fuckwits on this forum who are completely incapable of taking responsibility for their own behavior, their own disingenuousness, and their fucking pathetic need to put people in boxes.

You FUCKWITS decided my fate MONTHS AGO and have made every fucking effort to provoke me.  HinterWelt and Spike in particular love to blame me for agruments they start and they drag out for fucking ever.  Seriously, you fuckwads talk about how I turn threads into being all about me, but the REALITY is that some of you pieces of fucking crap are so fucking attached to your ideas that you can bear to fucking admit that my opinions might have value, so instead you turn thread after thread after thread into TAR AND FEATHER THE JACKALOPE, with your fucking ganging up on me and shredding my character, and then you FUCKING LOSER PIECES OF CRAP have the FUCKING AUDACITY to blame ME for the thread turning into a thread about me.  Maybe you TURDBURGLARS shouldn't have constantly changed the subject to me, huh?

It's stupid, boring fucking forum anyway, and it'll be dead in a year.

Well, it seems that Jackalope has proven his motives, which is a pity because I generally liked his posts on-topic about RPGs.

Too bad you feel that way, Jackalope, but really, you're welcome to keep posting here about RPGs, and even about OT subjects aside from politics. But your personal attacks as your chosen response, while understandable as just being upset, are really not doing you any favours.

Also, better people than you have predicted the death of this forum, and all have found themselves eating crow about it.

Anyways, we'll see what Cavscout's reaction is.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Jackalope;279749Fuck this forum.

And fuck you too Pundit, and fuck all your faggot moderators who lump me in with CavScout -- an actual,intentional troll -- and fuck Hinterwelt and Spike and Jeff  and that rapist-in-waiting Koltar, and Engine and all the other stuff-shirt fucking HYPOCRITICAL fuckwits on this forum who are completely incapable of taking responsibility for their own behavior, their own disingenuousness, and their fucking pathetic need to put people in boxes.

You FUCKWITS decided my fate MONTHS AGO and have made every fucking effort to provoke me.  HinterWelt and Spike in particular love to blame me for agruments they start and they drag out for fucking ever.  Seriously, you fuckwads talk about how I turn threads into being all about me, but the REALITY is that some of you pieces of fucking crap are so fucking attached to your ideas that you can bear to fucking admit that my opinions might have value, so instead you turn thread after thread after thread into TAR AND FEATHER THE JACKALOPE, with your fucking ganging up on me and shredding my character, and then you FUCKING LOSER PIECES OF CRAP have the FUCKING AUDACITY to blame ME for the thread turning into a thread about me.  Maybe you TURDBURGLARS shouldn't have constantly changed the subject to me, huh?

It's stupid, boring fucking forum anyway, and it'll be dead in a year.

Saved for posterity.

Quote from: Jackalope;279749You FUCKWITS...you fuckwads...you pieces of fucking crap...you FUCKING LOSER PIECES OF CRAP...you TURDBURGLARS...

Really? Really? You're going to end on turdburglars? I think you might have wanted to escalate steadily, and maybe avoid repetition. Probably your over-dependence on, a) profanity, and b) the word "fuck" in particular, has resulted in what I would consider an uncreative effort at best. Certainly not optimal, and definitely not your best work. For a parting shot, it's especially weak; now's the time to pull out the hot sauce, man! I give it a C-, and frankly that's being generous.

Anyway, I think it's a hard sell that the rest of us are the reason threads end up being about you. You're the person who's told us that your father was an abusive alcoholic military veteran, and your mom's sick, and you work a handful of hours a week and make a handful of dollars a year, and you've a sky-high IQ, and you were so physically weak as a child that you felt powerless and now like to wish-fulfill your way into power; those are all things you told us, and in so doing showed us the path - the direct route, the express train - to why you're the man you are today. None of that is our fault, Jack. You are who you are, and we did not make you that way.

I wish you well in your future endeavors, and go with my hope of your eventual happiness. There is worth in you, and we recognize it, even if it's not always communicated to you. Go well.

Jackalope and CavScout are just the first. If you don't want folks discussing politics, don't allow it at the site. Saying some folks can discuss it but others can't...well, that just takes us right into TBP territory, where everything is subjective, on some kind of slippery slope, where the mind police try to guess your motives for posting this or that, etc..

Seanchai

Jackalope and CavScout are just the first. If you don't want folks discussing politics, don't allow it at the site. Saying some folks can discuss it but others can't...well, that just takes us right into TBP territory, where everything is subjective, on some kind of slippery slope, where the mind police try to guess your motives for posting this or that, etc..

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;279829Jackalope and CavScout are just the first. If you don't want folks discussing politics, don't allow it at the site. Saying some folks can discuss it but others can't...well, that just takes us right into TBP territory, where everything is subjective, on some kind of slippery slope, where the mind police try to guess your motives for posting this or that, etc..

Seanchai

No, people can discuss politics, and they can hold political views IDENTICAL to either Jackalope or Cavscout's without being banned from it.

The issue wasn't their political statements, it was the fact that these two were INUNDATING the politics forum with thread-derailments, constant repetition and/or personal attacks, where they essentially killed the possibility of the forum being about anything other than their own selves.

There's only one person around here who gets to have a forum that's about him, and that's me. Jackalope and Cavscout were banned from the politics forum for the same reason Nox was, way back when; for threadcrapping.  This is not a shift in policy, it is a continuation of the same policy we have always had.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Engine;279820Really? Really? You're going to end on turdburglars?

No no, he didn't end on "turdburglars", he ended on TURDBURGLARS.  Not only is it the vocabulary of a ten year old, its the voice of one too.

QuoteI think you might have wanted to escalate steadily, and maybe avoid repetition. Probably your over-dependence on, a) profanity, and b) the word "fuck" in particular, has resulted in what I would consider an uncreative effort at best.

Um, frankly, if the alternative is brilliant and cutting vocab like "turdburglars", I think he'd have been WAY better off sticking to "fuck". I'm sure in his mind "turdburglars" was meant to sound really mean and insulting, but to me it just sounds utterly laughable. Its like what a schoolboy would say when he's in a shouting match with another schoolboy but he's worried his mommy is nearby and might hear him say a real "cuss word" and get himself grounded...

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;279839No no, he didn't end on "turdburglars", he ended on TURDBURGLARS.

Emphasis by capitalization is a sure sign of Terdbourghlhar's Disorder, a condition primarily characterized by the TENDENCY TO SPEAK TOO LOUD FOR RATIONAL CONVERSATION. It's generally caused by severe head trauma, proximity to artillery fire, or listening to Temples of Boom at 140db.

I'm not just the founder, I'M A CUSTOMER.

Quote from: RPGPundit;279839Um, frankly, if the alternative is brilliant and cutting vocab like "turdburglars", I think he'd have been WAY better off sticking to "fuck".

I know! Where's the subtlety, the artistry? Where are words like "skunkholer" and "baby diddler" and "batfuck shitbox?" Moreover - and this is the really disturbing bit - where are the creative death threats? Why didn't he say we'd all be crushed under a million gallons of cougar urine, or that he wishes our mothers would go back in time and chainsaw their wombs open?

It's sad to see a man in decline. I mean, unless you think it's funny, in which case you're probably some kind of stuff-shirt fucking HYPOCRITICAL fuckwit. [How does one fuck a stuffed shirt, anyway?]

You know when Pundit and I are A-teaming someone, it's bad. And if you don't know what I mean by that, you probably don't want to; it's a mental image you should spare yourself.

I do not find it surprising how this thread has evolved.  Sad, perhaps, but predictable.   I would have been shocked if Cavscout had flamed out, actually. Like I said, he seems more self aware, if no more useful.

And honestly? I feel a little sad for Jackalope. It might have been better for him to walk away before it came to this. I certainly did my part to encourage it. I also did my part to avoid, at the end, getting too roped into the round and round with him.  

Still, I feel vaguely like a guy who realized that some trains were about to collide and sat down to enjoy the inevitable collision. Now that it's occured I find myself wondering if I should have, I dunno, DONE something.  It wasn't half as entertaining as I thought.

Quote from: Spike;279850I would have been shocked if Cavscout had flamed out, actually.

Cav's very clever at doing the whole, "Who, me?" routine. One must appreciate the artistry, even if the art is deplorable. But Cav's trollery seems more good-natured, like the guy in the corner with the shit-eating grin who just caused a riot, whereas Jack's motives are darker, more introspective and self-fulfilling.

This thread should be viewed as Evolution in Action.

Quote from: RPGPundit;279837No, people can discuss politics, and they can hold political views IDENTICAL to either Jackalope or Cavscout's without being banned from it.

You say that and yet you also said when I arrived that the forums weren't moderated, that you don't ban people, etc.. You have zero credibility anymore...

Seanchai

Quote from: Spike;279850I do not find it surprising how this thread has evolved.  Sad, perhaps, but predictable.   I would have been shocked if Cavscout had flamed out, actually. Like I said, he seems more self aware, if no more useful.

And honestly? I feel a little sad for Jackalope. It might have been better for him to walk away before it came to this. I certainly did my part to encourage it. I also did my part to avoid, at the end, getting too roped into the round and round with him.  

Still, I feel vaguely like a guy who realized that some trains were about to collide and sat down to enjoy the inevitable collision. Now that it's occured I find myself wondering if I should have, I dunno, DONE something.  It wasn't half as entertaining as I thought.

Well, I still have hope that Jackalope will figure out that its really not so terrible if he can't post about politics here, and will decide to keep posting about everything else.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Seanchai;279889You say that and yet you also said when I arrived that the forums weren't moderated, that you don't ban people, etc.. You have zero credibility anymore...

Seanchai

We do not, and have never moderated speech here; nor is anyone banned for speech/opinion. We have always, and continue to, moderate for disruptive behaviour that negatively affects the forums.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;279905We do not, and have never moderated speech here; nor is anyone banned for speech/opinion.

Seriously, it's your site, do what you want with it but for the love of god, do not make this claim ever again.

You couldn't handle one of your mods pestering you to take action and succumbed to the complaints of a few others. All based around speech and opinion in a specific forum on the site.

There was no "site disruption", the very nature of your narrowly focused sub-forum ban proves that. There simply were folks who couldn't handle opinions in the politics forum and found that even without a "report function", ala Tangency, they could simply pester you into some kind of action.

Again, your site, your call on what you want to do with it, but don't pretend you do it for some other reason than what you did it for.

Watch out, Mr Skach, you are next!  Then Hinterwelt!  The great right-wing purge continues full steam!!

Quote from: StormBringer;279916Watch out, Mr Skach, you are next!  Then Hinterwelt!  The great right-wing purge continues full steam!!

I am right wing? Jackalope is right wing? I am not following you.

That said, I will still take your advice and fear the purge...;)

I guess I need to change my custom title to "Faggot Moderator" for a bit.  My wife will be disappointed.

Quote from: Zachary The First;279927I guess I need to change my custom title to "Faggot Moderator" for a bit.  My wife will be disappointed.

Don't worry Zach, you will always be a hetero-mod with mucho machismo...well, not as much a Dr. Rotwang but come on...

Quote from: HinterWelt;279930Don't worry Zach, you will always be a hetero-mod with mucho machismo...well, not as much a Dr. Rotwang but come on...

I know.  I tried wearing a white sportcoat with the sleeves rolled up, but even that could not counter The Tie.

Ah well.

Quote from: CavScout;279912Seriously, it's your site, do what you want with it but for the love of god, do not make this claim ever again.

You couldn't handle one of your mods pestering you to take action and succumbed to the complaints of a few others. All based around speech and opinion in a specific forum on the site.

There was no "site disruption", the very nature of your narrowly focused sub-forum ban proves that. There simply were folks who couldn't handle opinions in the politics forum and found that even without a "report function", ala Tangency, they could simply pester you into some kind of action.

Again, your site, your call on what you want to do with it, but don't pretend you do it for some other reason than what you did it for.

On the contrary, the PROOF that it was all about the disruption is that the banning was strictly limited to the area being disrupted. It wasn't a case of "I don't like his politics" or "some of the posters don't like the guy" so we'll ban you from the forums.  It was a case of every single motherfucking thread on the Politics subforum was turning into the Cavscout show (or the Jackalope show; or the Cavscout-Jackalope Mutual Poo-Slinging Extravaganza), essentially killing the possibility of that particular forum being able to function the way it was intended.

And you are lucky that I can and do stand up to my mods; all of them but me were in favour of banning you from both Politics AND off-topic (and a couple would have wanted you banned altogether).  Notice who's "minority opinion" ended up being the deciding policy.
Don't make me have to later bear their "i told you so" chorus by disrupting other areas, please.  I chose to be as strictly limited in what I blocked you from to the area where the most specific disruption was going on. If I was really being "pushed around" by other admins or users on here, you wouldn't be on theRPGsite anymore.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;279938Don't make me have to later bear their "i told you so" chorus by disrupting other areas, please.

What would this disruption look like? Would saying you're ignoring a poster yet randomly (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=279377&postcount=284) trying to goad (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=279831&postcount=108) them into a response so some objective moderator could jump in and lay down the law be it?

I'd hate to think you let someone get away with looking for a fight but if the fight is joined busting out the ban stick.

For some reason I am betting that the same behavior on my part would have some mod's panties tied up in a knot and some others telling you'd they're quiting the site if you didn't do something.

Or perhaps, I am mistaken, and it is allowed behavior in the RPG forums and no one mind if I followed a similar tact. Somehow though, I don't think that's quite the case.

Quote from: CavScout;279944What would this disruption look like? Would saying you're ignoring a poster yet randomly (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=279377&postcount=284) trying to goad (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=279831&postcount=108) them into a response so some objective moderator could jump in and lay down the law be it?

No, it wouldn't really look like that. It would look like derailing a thread with off-topic stuff, or especially trying to inject political stuff into non-political threads in the non-political part of the forum.
You haven't done those things. Feel free to go and call Stormbringer a fuckhead if you want; that's allowed. Do it 20 times in the same thread until the thread is useless for anything else, and that's where you end up having a problem.
Its all about knowing when you've said your piece and there's nothing more to add.

QuoteFor some reason I am betting that the same behavior on my part would have some mod's panties tied up in a knot and some others telling you'd they're quiting the site if you didn't do something.

Oh, it might, but those complaints would be rejected, IF you don't engage in the kind of behaviour I detail above.

You will recall that for MONTHS I was rejecting people's complaints about you that amounted to "I don't like his politics"; the point in which you became a problem on that one subforum was not when you were expressing right-wing views, it was when the entire forum had its viability challenged by the fact that every single thread was being co-opted into either a soapbox for you or a place where you and your opponents dished out personal insults.

And you know, from a purely strategic perspective, getting all pissy with the one guy with both the most power on the site and the most inclination to err on the side of leniency (aka, the one guy who doesn't seem to want to see your head on a plate) in all these matters is probably not the most productive thing you could be doing.

RPGPundit

Quote from: StormBringer;279916Watch out, Mr Skach, you are next!  Then Hinterwelt!  The great right-wing purge continues full steam!!

Keep my name out of it - I've already been labeled as "competition." ;)

Quote from: James J Skach;279990Keep my name out of it - I've already been labeled as "competition." ;)

Too late, buddy, you are on the list.  :)

Quote from: Engine;279845You know when Pundit and I are A-teaming someone, it's bad. And if you don't know what I mean by that, you probably don't want to; it's a mental image you should spare yourself.

Well, I'll be damned (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=A-Team&defid=3647141). Spared no more.

A step in the right direction - not that I've been missed, but it'll be nice to end my self-imposed exile.

Quote from: Engine;280028Well, I'll be damned (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=A-Team&defid=3647141). Spared no more.

Ha! Classic!

Quote from: Jackalope;279749rapist-in-waiting

Hmm...that's new.  Not sure it makes any sense, but its got spunk.

Quote from: Jackalope;279749some of you pieces of fucking crap are so fucking attached to your ideas that you can bear to fucking admit that my opinions might have value

Oh the irony.

Quote from: Jackalope;279749TURDBURGLARS

Turdburglar, I knew thee well.  I hath missed thee for many years.   What a wonderful, though dated pseudo-insult of childhood!  It's got 80s teen comedy gold written all over it.

Quote from: Jackalope;279749It's stupid, boring fucking forum anyway, and it'll be dead in a year.

If one subforum were to die, Politics would not be missed.   Might even make the site stronger and refocus people on the game areas.

Quote from: Werekoala;280074A step in the right direction - not that I've been missed, but it'll be nice to end my self-imposed exile.

Huh, I was wondering about you yesterday... :)

(See? The internet cares!)

Quote from: RPGPundit;279905We do not, and have never moderated speech here; nor is anyone banned for speech/opinion. We have always, and continue to, moderate for disruptive behaviour that negatively affects the forums.

Except you've decided some folk's speech and opinions are negatively affecting the forum. Moreover, it's not as if some objective third-party is deciding what's disruptive. And if you separate the speech from the behavior, isn't the behavior pretty wide-spread? It not as if gamers are known for their easy-going natures and flexibility and lack of pedantry when it comes to rules.

But, that aside, a topic ban? Really? That's sooo TBP.

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;280111Except you've decided some folk's speech and opinions are negatively affecting the forum. Moreover, it's not as if some objective third-party is deciding what's disruptive. And if you separate the speech from the behavior, isn't the behavior pretty wide-spread? It not as if gamers are known for their easy-going natures and flexibility and lack of pedantry when it comes to rules.

But, that aside, a topic ban? Really? That's sooo TBP.

Seanchai

You're really grasping at straws here, dude. I know you dislike me, but this is pretty sad. The rest of the Pundit-hating crowd hasn't even come out for this one, yet here you are, the one lone nutcase waving his sign in the air. Its the saddest protest of all, when you realize there's only one guy who's out to lunch enough to think this is a travesty of justice.

Again, there's a difference between speech and behaviour.
Think that islam is a terrible danger to civilization? You're entitled to say so. Say so in every single thread on OT, regardless of relevancy, and you've got a behaviour problem.
Capish?

RPGPundit

Quote from: Spinachcat;280101Hmm...that's new.  Not sure it makes any sense, but its got spunk.

Koltar is a rapist-in-waiting,assuming he hasn't already molested a thirteen year old somewhere.  I base this on his pathological obsession with getting close to women without making a move on them.  Men with these sort of delusional pathologies eventually begin resenting women for not fucking them despite their inability to man up and make a real move.  This leads to rape.

It was actually tangential to my rant, but fuck Koltar.  Seriously.  He sucks.

QuoteTurdburglar, I knew thee well.  I hath missed thee for many years.   What a wonderful, though dated pseudo-insult of childhood!  It's got 80s teen comedy gold written all over it.

Glad someone appreciated it.

QuoteIf one subforum were to die, Politics would not be missed.   Might even make the site stronger and refocus people on the game areas.

The only thing that will cause that is something happening in the gaming world.  The only thing that is actually active and happening in the gaming world is the Forge-theory-design circuit (sad as that may be),and since that can't be discussed here...there's nothing new to talk about.  It's just the same boring conversation circling the drain.

Quote from: PunditYou're really grasping at straws here, dude. I know you dislike me, but this is pretty sad. The rest of the Pundit-hating crowd hasn't even come out for this one, yet here you are, the one lone nutcase waving his sign in the air. Its the saddest protest of all, when you realize there's only one guy who's out to lunch enough to think this is a travesty of justice.

Again, there's a difference between speech and behaviour.
Think that islam is a terrible danger to civilization? You're entitled to say so. Say so in every single thread on OT, regardless of relevancy, and you've got a behaviour problem.
Capish?

Actually Pundit, he's got you nailed.  So does CavScout.

The problem with you claim is that you can't find anything that either either CavScout or I argue that is the equivalent of "Think that islam is a terrible danger to civilization?"  That's because neither Cav or I is that monotone.

What people are really taking offense to is cav and I's posting styles, the way we approach our ideas and discuss them.

I'll admit to being a tenacious bulldog who doesn't like to give up a point.  I especially don't like rolling over for a pathetic argument, and will go tooth and nail for days to make my position clear.  I'll hammer and hammer and hammer on my point until everyone who is arguing with me either understands it or leaves the thread.  The long threads are an accidental by-product of my unwillingness to surrender to unconvincing arguments and personal attacks -- and no joke, several of the users here rely entirely on subtle character assassination when they don't have a leg to stand on:Spike, HinterWelt, Engine, etc.  These guys don't like me because I actually hold their feet to the fire when I challenge them.

The most recent examples can be found in the Aang Ain't Asian thread where SPIKE spent page after page attacking a straw man and vomitting shitty,poorly thought out arguments.   All I did was stick to my point.  The length of that thread was solely a result of Spike's utter inability to accept the fact that dear god maybe Jackalope has a point.

The other recent example is Bill in the Atheist Idiocy thread, who spent page after page after page attacking a strawman in a pathetic effort to portray me as someone blinded by hatred for Christianity, rather than just admitting that he, like most people, doesn't find the argument from literal interpretation viable.   That thread went on so long because BILL couldn't let go of his need to assassinate my character and actually listen to what I was really saying.

The only reason you don't see that from me in the RPG forums is because the majority of the conversation there is so fucking trite and trivial that no one bothers to argue anything.

I don't do tit for tat.  My posts may go off on tangents, as I follow the natural flow of the conversation, but my goal is always to communicate my ideas clearly and have them received the way I intend.  I don't, as a general rule, fuck with people just to fuck with them.

Cav on the other hand is a troll.  He brags about pointless dragging out conversation, calling himself a "puppet master" because he can derail conversations.  You've all seen him do it, turn a conversation from productive to tit-for-tat with his inane one-line posts.  You can see it in his inability or unwillingness to ever answer a direct question -- and I don't mean gotcha question,I mean question like "Could you clarify what you mean by that?

Ask Cav to clarify his position, you know what the response will be.  An insult!

Ask me to clarify my position, I'll write you a fucking novel.

And I don't care if you hope that I will return and continue contributing to the RPG section.  It ain't going to happen.  You can restore me fully and fucking apologize for lumping me in with a clear and obvious troll or you suck it.

Quote from: Jackalope;280131Koltar is a rapist-in-waiting,assuming he hasn't already molested a thirteen year old somewhere.  I base this on his pathological obsession with getting close to women without making a move on them.  Men with these sort of delusional pathologies eventually begin resenting women for not fucking them despite their inability to man up and make a real move.  This leads to rape.

It was actually tangential to my rant, but fuck Koltar.  Seriously.  He sucks.

You are quite the asshole for this little tidbit.  Please stick to your guns and never return.

Jackalope, you can rant as much as you like here; but I'd already made it clear that these kinds of attacks that you've dumped on Koltar are beyond the limits of what's acceptable here.
If you really want to flame out, and end up proving yourself way more of a troll (and way more immature) than Cavscout, be my guest. Otherwise, you won't bring up that particular line of character assassination again here.
Last warning.

RPGPundit

Jackalope, Koltar may seem creepy at times (rarely), but he has donated a lot time and money to charities. Supported gaming both on and off the internet.

And most importantly, has never threatened to throw a bag of shit at people because they thought him emotionally unbalanced.

You on the other hand, were suspect immediately, and self-identified as a walking clusterfuck the moment you claimed that interracial dating was a way the white man diluted the other races. That was about quite a few months ago. You haven't improved any with age.

Quote from: Zachary The First;279931I know.  I tried wearing a white sportcoat with the sleeves rolled up, but even that could not counter The Tie.

Ah well.

It's true.  My style is True Turdburglar, and no Fucking Faggot can ever...

um...

...what was I talking about, again...?

That's Original Gangster, if I ever saw it.

Just got home.....
...from a viewing and memorial service for someone that was involved with local TREK fandom.

First Off : What the Hell!!???

Second: Thank you to those 4 or 5 of you who stuck up for me in your unique ways and style.

The kind of crap I saw posted earlier in the thread is why I don't think much of the politics sub-forum.

Oh and saying Pundit or anyone censors Conservative thought on here?

Thats just not true.

Most on here think of me as conservative (so be it) - I've never felt my opinions were censored in any way.

I HAVE felt nudged or influenced to post more in the Role Playing section from time to time - which is perfectly fine. This is supposed to be a Role Playing Games forum after all.


- Ed C.

Quote from: jeff37923;280139You on the other hand, were suspect immediately, and self-identified as a walking clusterfuck the moment you claimed that interracial dating was a way the white man diluted the other races. That was about quite a few months ago. You haven't improved any with age.

See,this is the kind of shit I put up with on this forum.

You're both an idiot AND a lying sack of crap Jeff, because I never said that.  That is just you taking something I said, twisting it around, and turning it into something else.

And this is like what, a year later?

What I said was that being willing to fuck black girls doesn't mean you're not racist.  But you, fucking imbecile that you are, are incapable of understanding a very very fucking simple point like that.  Being colorblind to pussy doesn't mean you aren't a racist.

How hard is it to understand? Not very.  But no, you like all the other submoronic fuckwits around here, can't handle that. So you go and you make up shit because that's all you've got.

Just like the throwing dog shit thing.  I don't have to defend that, because I never actually did that.  It was just some fucked up shit I said to fuck with someone's head because they got me banned from TBP, and you know that.  Because I've told you about a dozen times.  But that little fucking shitnugget that you pretend is your brain latched on to it, closed your fucking ears, and decided you knew fucking everything.

And then  hypocritical waste of skin that you are, you proceed to whip out your inane theories every fucking time I say something you don't like.  Because that's easier than dealing with the topic at hand. Dealing with the topic at hand requires using your brain, and we all know how much that hurts poor dumb Jeff.

Seriously man, do you think a single person on this forum actually respects your intelligence?  They don't.  Nobody does.  That you are an idiot is plainly obvious to everyone who meets you.

See, you're a pussy Jeff, and you're scared of me. You know I'm smarter, wittier and all around better than you. You know in your heart that you are a stupid, pathetic, basement crawling loser and since every time we butt heads you get a painful ego-crushing reminder that there are people smarter than you in the world,you hate me.  And so you make these comments, hide behind the ignore function, and only pop out when you're fellow craven fuckbuddies are rolling like a posse.   It's only when you can snipe from numbers that you make an appearance.

Then pretend you aren't a craven fucking coward.

But everyone knows.  

Even you're mom knows.

Quote from: RPGPundit;280135Jackalope, you can rant as much as you like here; but I'd already made it clear that these kinds of attacks that you've dumped on Koltar are beyond the limits of what's acceptable here.
If you really want to flame out, and end up proving yourself way more of a troll (and way more immature) than Cavscout, be my guest. Otherwise, you won't bring up that particular line of character assassination again here.
Last warning.

RPGPundit

Go fuck yourself Pundit!

You're threatening me with banning because I think Koltar is a rape waiting to happen?  After you banned me from the only part of the site that is actually interesting day in and day out?

Are you fucking stupid?  Do you have any clue how moronic of a threat that is?  As far as I'm concerned, I'm already banned from this site.  All you're threatening me with is ending this thread.  OOOOOOH I'M SO FUCKING SCARED!

Do it, you fucking pussy.  Prove to everyone here how much you really value free speech. We all know the truth; You crave respect and attention, and you can't get it anywhere else,so you had to make you're own little playground with your own little rules where everybody has to kiss your ass.  You don't respect free speech, you just crave respect.  You must have gotten your ass kicked a lot as a kid.

Like the whole joke about how YOU make the decisions, not the mods. Whatever.  You caved into them because you desperately need their support, and you had to make a big point of how it was YOUR decision because god forbid anyone think you don't have the Biggest E-Penis Ever.

Anyways Pundit, you and I both know you're only defending Koltar to avoid addressing the stuff I actually said to you.  But hey, at least you're notstupid, like Jeff.  Won't call you that.  When you dodge a point, you're at least subtle about it.

Quote from: Jackalope;280162Go fuck yourself Pundit!

You're threatening me with banning because I think Koltar is a rape waiting to happen?  After you banned me from the only part of the site that is actually interesting day in and day out?

Are you fucking stupid?  Do you have any clue how moronic of a threat that is?  As far as I'm concerned, I'm already banned from this site.  All you're threatening me with is ending this thread.  OOOOOOH I'M SO FUCKING SCARED!

Are you now?

QuoteDo it, you fucking pussy.  Prove to everyone here how much you really value free speech.

Free speech has nothing to do with you repeatedly slandering someone else on this forum with one of the most appalling accusations possible.

QuoteWe all know the truth; You crave respect and attention, and you can't get it anywhere else,so you had to make you're own little playground with your own little rules where everybody has to kiss your ass.  You don't respect free speech, you just crave respect.  You must have gotten your ass kicked a lot as a kid.

Respect? Really? Yes, clearly my posting history and blog and overall online personality is oriented toward winning the most respect possible... you moronic fuck.
I get my respect from places and people that matter, not from what the online gaming community thinks of me. Were you to accuse me of craving controversy at least you'd have more material to make an argument.

QuoteLike the whole joke about how YOU make the decisions, not the mods. Whatever.  You caved into them because you desperately need their support, and you had to make a big point of how it was YOUR decision because god forbid anyone think you don't have the Biggest E-Penis Ever.

Dude, I consult them and everyone else on this forum because I want to hear everyone's point of view. If I were to "cave to the other mods" you'd have been banned six months ago, you stupid sack of shit.

There's only one person here who can end up getting you banned, Jackalope, and its not me. Its you.  If you want to flame out, go right ahead, though unlike most people who decide to be "an hero" on this forum, I'll have a twinge of regret about you, since I have tended to agree with you more often than not when it comes to RPG topics, and I thought you wrote well about the subject when you bothered to.  I even tend to be closer to your politics than to, say, Cavscout's.
All you need to do is grow some perspective and quit being such a fucking little spaz.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Jackalope;280159See,this is the kind of shit I put up with on this forum.

You're both an idiot AND a lying sack of crap Jeff, because I never said that.  That is just you taking something I said, twisting it around, and turning it into something else.

And this is like what, a year later?

What I said was that being willing to fuck black girls doesn't mean you're not racist.  But you, fucking imbecile that you are, are incapable of understanding a very very fucking simple point like that.  Being colorblind to pussy doesn't mean you aren't a racist.

How hard is it to understand? Not very.  But no, you like all the other submoronic fuckwits around here, can't handle that. So you go and you make up shit because that's all you've got.

Just like the throwing dog shit thing.  I don't have to defend that, because I never actually did that.  It was just some fucked up shit I said to fuck with someone's head because they got me banned from TBP, and you know that.  Because I've told you about a dozen times.  But that little fucking shitnugget that you pretend is your brain latched on to it, closed your fucking ears, and decided you knew fucking everything.

And then  hypocritical waste of skin that you are, you proceed to whip out your inane theories every fucking time I say something you don't like.  Because that's easier than dealing with the topic at hand. Dealing with the topic at hand requires using your brain, and we all know how much that hurts poor dumb Jeff.

Seriously man, do you think a single person on this forum actually respects your intelligence?  They don't.  Nobody does.  That you are an idiot is plainly obvious to everyone who meets you.

See, you're a pussy Jeff, and you're scared of me. You know I'm smarter, wittier and all around better than you. You know in your heart that you are a stupid, pathetic, basement crawling loser and since every time we butt heads you get a painful ego-crushing reminder that there are people smarter than you in the world,you hate me.  And so you make these comments, hide behind the ignore function, and only pop out when you're fellow craven fuckbuddies are rolling like a posse.   It's only when you can snipe from numbers that you make an appearance.

Then pretend you aren't a craven fucking coward.

But everyone knows.  

Even you're mom knows.

Don't ever change. Your postings exist to humor us all.

Snerk! You even include a "Yo Mama" in your rant, that is absolutely classic.

Why do I have a feeling that is CavScout had posted as Jackie has for the last few gems, he'd be banned already.

This, right here:

QuoteAfter you banned me from the only part of the site that is actually interesting day in and day out

should be enough to make some of the earlier questions clear.

Quote from: Jackalope;280159Seriously man, do you think a single person on this forum actually respects your intelligence?  They don't.  Nobody does.

I respect your intelligence, Jeff. But then, I'm a right wing crypto-fascists neo-nazi KKK nutjob, so...

Quote from: James J Skach;280173I respect your intelligence, Jeff. But then, I'm a right wing crypto-fascists neo-nazi KKK nutjob, so...

I have intelligence?

Holy shit! Get it off me! GET IT OFF ME!

:D

Quote from: jeff37923;280178I have intelligence?

Holy shit! Get it off me! GET IT OFF ME!

:D

I don't know what it looks like so I can't brush it off!

I feel so helpless! Somebody, help!

I think every thread in this forum should end in "Yo mama!" But then maybe I just haven't recognized how cool and bad ass Jackalope really is? I mean turdburglar? This is classic stuff.

Best. Internet. Meltdown. Ever.

That sound you hear is James and Jeff sucking each other off.

A common defense mechanism of the clinically weak-minded.  They turn to each other for support, and then publicly tell each other how smart they are while stroking each other off.

Slightly more common on TBP than here.  But we've got our own forum fags.

Quote from: Jackalope;280187That sound you hear is James and Jeff sucking each other off.

A common defense mechanism of the clinically weak-minded.  They turn to each other for support, and then publicly tell each other how smart they are while stroking each other off.

Slightly more common on TBP than here.  But we've got our own forum fags.

Yo Mama!

Quote from: jeff37923;280188Yo Mama!

My turn?

 Then I say it like this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFZHu0mjRj8&feature=related


- Ed C.

I would just like to give thanks to everyone who has posted in this thread so far for some of the most hilarious comments ive ever read on a forum...take a bow guys :)

Oh and before i go since its the "new" thing you crazy kids seem to be into these days, let me leave you all with a "Yo momma! " or for the british amongst us "Your Mother!" :)

Quote from: Jackalope;280162
Do it, you fucking pussy.

No, it's "DO IT FAGGOT (http://encyclopediadramatica.com/DO_IT_FAGGOT)"

Hi, RPGsite! Been lurking for a while; decided not to lurk any moar. This thread forced me to register; like, twisted my arm and everything!

Oh, and pundit, I respect your fairly open perspective when it comes to expressing oneself, so long as one is on topic.

I wasn't going to comment here, but Seanchai and Jackalope are right. Obfuscatory tactics do not conceal your lack of a leg to stand on, gentlemen. Reacharounds are no substitute for rigorous thought.

Poobutt, your slippery slope is gradually ridding the forum of all its most interesting members. You need to back off like you did when this thing started.

Quote from: James J Skach;280172Why do I have a feeling that is CavScout had posted as Jackie has for the last few gems, he'd be banned already.

Because it likely be true. My mild remarks in this thread have earned a warning not to disagree with Pundit or my future will be limited (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=279953&postcount=25) yet Jakie's flameout has Pundit all but begging him to stay and post on the forums.

Quote from: droog;280270I wasn't going to comment here, but Seanchai and Jackalope are right. Obfuscatory tactics do not conceal your lack of a leg to stand on, gentlemen. Reacharounds are no substitute for rigorous thought.

Poobutt, your slippery slope is gradually ridding the forum of all its most interesting members. You need to back off like you did when this thing started.

Your point would be more interesting if you didn't have a TOTAL lack of credibility as far as commenting in favour of the well-being of this Forum goes. Its blatantly clear that you despise the nature of gaming that this forum promotes, and are basically here to try to snipe when you can.

RPGPundit

Quote from: CavScout;280271Because it likely be true. My mild remarks in this thread have earned a warning not to disagree with Pundit or my future will be limited (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=279953&postcount=25) yet Jakie's flameout has Pundit all but begging him to stay and post on the forums.

It wasn't a warning, just advice; that I'm not your enemy here, and its probably more strategic for you to work with me than to freak out and see me as the source of your problems. You've certainly shown a WAY better attitude toward all this than Jackalope has.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;280277It wasn't a warning, just advice; that I'm not your enemy here, and its probably more strategic for you to work with me than to freak out and see me as the source of your problems. You've certainly shown a WAY better attitude toward all this than Jackalope has.

RPGPundit

I'm not convinced that deflecting any criticism for behavior onto everyone else is particularly a better attitude than melting-down and screaming at everyone.  More subtle, perhaps.

Quote from: RPGPundit;280277It wasn't a warning, just advice; that I'm not your enemy here, and its probably more strategic for you to work with me than to freak out and see me as the source of your problems. You've certainly shown a WAY better attitude toward all this than Jackalope has.

Odd that disagreeing with you is now a "freak out".

Oh, and when your buddy says, "You shouldn't speed or you'll get a ticket", that's advice. When it's a cop saying the same thing, it's a warning.

Quote from: RPGPundit;280276Your point would be more interesting if you didn't have a TOTAL lack of credibility as far as commenting in favour of the well-being of this Forum goes. Its blatantly clear that you despise the nature of gaming that this forum promotes, and are basically here to try to snipe when you can.

Dude, the Big Lie doesn't work on forums.

Quote from: droog;280291Dude, the Big Lie doesn't work on forums.

Aaaaand droog with the Associate Godwin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Lie).  Once the bear cavalry shows up, this thread will have everything.

Quote from: Zachary The First;280296Aaaaand droog with the Associate Godwin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Lie).  Once the bear cavalry shows up, this thread will have everything.

Bear cavalry!

(http://www.russian-victories.ru/bear_cavalry.jpg)

Quote from: Zachary The First;280296Aaaaand droog with the Associate Godwin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Lie).  

Obfuscation, Zacharista. Address the point if you want to dip your penis in.

Quote from: droog;280307Obfuscation, Zacharista. Address the point if you want to dip your penis in.

Alrighty then, let's address the point.

QuotePoobutt, your slippery slope is gradually ridding the forum of all its most interesting members.

You have everyone's full attention as you will now explain how in your opinion CavScout is one of this forum's most interesting members.

Feel free to bring in detailed quotes from the esteemed CavScout's posts in support of your worthy case, freedom fighter.

Quote from: droog;280307Obfuscation, Zacharista. Address the point if you want to dip your penis in.

I don't see what the hell some Discipline from Vampire has to do with anything.

Generally, I try to keep my penis from addressing points.  They're sharp and injurious.

Quote from: Zachary The First;280310I don't see what the hell some Discipline from Vampire has to do with anything.

Generally, I try to keep my penis from addressing points.  They're sharp and injurious.

Well, it is a real word.

Unless you're being funny.

Quote from: jswa;280314Well, it is a real word.

Unless you're being funny.

Watch out, his sword is stronger than his pen is.

See, I normally DO read the RPG forums, and not actually post much, as I'm pretty much gathering info. The I read politics or off-topic to see the trainwreck that is Jackalope and CumScout.  And there you go, rpgsite with those  2 still posting anywhere is pretty much a trainwreck.
 
my 2 cents.

Quote from: StormBringer;280315Watch out, his sword is stronger than his pen is.

:rimshot:

Quote from: Pierce Inverarity;280308You have everyone's full attention as you will now explain how in your opinion CavScout is one of this forum's most interesting members.

Straw man. But seriously, you see how these guys are proving Jackalope's point? Doesn't it make you wish for the Swine Wars?

Quote from: shalvayez;280316See, I normally DO read the RPG forums, and not actually post much, as I'm pretty much gathering info. The I read politics or off-topic to see the trainwreck that is Jackalope and CumScout.  And there you go, rpgsite with those  2 still posting anywhere is pretty much a trainwreck.
 
my 2 cents.

Your life is the train-wreck pal. Perhaps you should have spent more time working on keeping the wife happy, and less time trying to seem important on the interwebs, and perhaps you wouldn't have to post how she left you and all that.

Just a suggestion.

Quote from: droog;280318But seriously, you see how these guys are proving Jackalope's point? Doesn't it make you wish for the Swine Wars?

I asked you first, bucko.

Quote from: droog;280318Straw man. But seriously, you see how these guys are proving Jackalope's point? Doesn't it make you wish for the Swine Wars?

No, sorry, its not a straw man if its directly addressing your point. You said I was ridding the forum of the most interesting members. Please explain: is it Jackalope or Cavscout you find so worthy of being on this forum? Fritzs? Nox?

Which of these guys do you really believe to be "the most interesting" in any sense other than "it'll be interesting to watch how they wreck this forum that I want to see fail"?

Or are you just talking out of your ass?

Now its YOUR turn to address the fucking point.

RPGPundit

I don't think Pundit's wholly responsible, but we have seen an exodus of well-known posters over the past half-year or so. David R, Ian Absentia, walkerp, gleichman (I take responsibility - nay, joy - in being responsible for driving off that trog), J_Arcane, and Settembrini are a few that come to mind immediately. Only walkerp, that I'm aware of, is directly due to Pundit's actions. The others seem to have left because they didn't like the tone or topics of the site.

I don't know if there are others droog had in mind or not.

Excuse me?

Nobody's denying the exodus of posters. A number of people, including me myself, have suggested that's due to boredom. There's been a general flattening of debate, across all sites, based on the simple fact that for a year or more there's been little new to talk about. That's equally true for rpg.net and therpgsite, and it's equally true for trad gaming and for movie games.

Only one person, wackily, would like to attribute all that to Pundy's moderation policy. And he's invited to substantiate that claim.

But if experience is any guide, he'll run away from his non-point as fast as he can, hoping a few quips will cover his tracks.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;280337I don't think Pundit's wholly responsible, but we have seen an exodus of well-known posters over the past half-year or so. David R, Ian Absentia, walkerp, gleichman (I take responsibility - nay, joy - in being responsible for driving off that trog), J_Arcane, and Settembrini are a few that come to mind immediately. Only walkerp, that I'm aware of, is directly due to Pundit's actions. The others seem to have left because they didn't like the tone or topics of the site.

I don't know if there are others droog had in mind or not.

Ian Absentia and J_Arcane were active today. Settembrini and David R have been active this same month, not two weeks ago. Gleichman was last active this week--he comes and goes on his own terms, which is probably the way he likes it. WalkerP more than earned his ban.

You need better examples, or to accept the very real notion that forum members simply come and go. I used to be a hardcore Dumpshock poster, yet I've barely visited it in months. I never bothered much with tech forums, yet I now find myself checking notebook forums every week.

Life goes on...

Quote from: JongWK;280343Ian Absentia and J_Arcane were active today.

"Active," yes, but not contributing. I trust you'll all recognise the difference.

!i!

Quote from: CavScout;280330Your life is the train-wreck pal. Perhaps you should have spent more time working on keeping the wife happy, and less time trying to seem important on the interwebs, and perhaps you wouldn't have to post how she left you and all that.

Just a suggestion.

If you ever had any relationship with women, you'd know what a horrible thing that is to say.  However, since you probably have never touched a woman in your life, I'm just letting you know.

Now, go get your shoeshine box!

Quote from: Drohem;280382If you ever had any relationship with women, you'd know what a horrible thing that is to say.  However, since you probably have never touched a woman in your life, I'm just letting you know.

Now, go get your shoeshine box!

Actually, whether or not he has even seen women, that ranks up there in shitty with the time he said karma accounted for the recent problems encountered by Shalvayez.

I am sure his attitude is because 'Shalvayez' sounds Latino.

Quote from: Drohem;280382If you ever had any relationship with women, you'd know what a horrible thing that is to say.  However, since you probably have never touched a woman in your life, I'm just letting you know.

Now, go get your shoeshine box!

You and a few others here should form the "We can dish it out but can't take it" club. Perhaps Pundit will give you a special "my feelings are hurt" report button that sends a bat-signal like alert to OHT and he can come riding to your defense.

You also should stop watching the Big Bang Theory and realize women aren't the big mystery you and your other foolish buddies have convinced yourselves they are to cover-up your relationship failures.

If Shalvayez can't handle the heat, which we have seen he can't, he shouldn't play in the kitchen.

Oddly enough "Shalvayez" was the name of a Forgotten Realms character I played for a long time. Gather that, my handle is an reference to a character I played in an RPG.... Ooh, what are these forums for again, CumScout, can you please tell me?

Quote from: shalvayez;280405Ooh, what are these forums for again, CumScout, can you please tell me?

It would seem to be a place where you tell others how your life sucks and they give you interweb hugs.

And while you are trying to make a silly point, you probably should consider your own (http://www.therpgsite.com/search.php?searchid=66845) posting patterns before you start tossing stones from your glass house.

Quote from: Pierce Inverarity;280331I asked you first, bucko.

Okay, basically I think that the Poobutt's moderation in RP has removed any source of interesting debate there. So people turn to OT for something with a bit of spark.

Furthermore, we've lost at least one good member directly due to the moderation in RP. I'm talking about Calithena.

I'm not so concerned with this particular piece of moderation, but it's all fitting into a pattern. This is the second direct precedent set. walkerp was banned in the same mealy-mouthed way. It's pathetic.

Jackalope actually does have points to make, and on a site where the admin calls people cunts, I can't see anything wrong with his approach (apart from the strategic dimension). I don't find that CavScout has many interesting things to say, but I don't think he's a troll as such, and I do think that people avoid answering some of his questions.

So we're getting moderation for 'disruption', as if we aren't grownups who can scroll past the noise. At this point one might as well return to RPG.net.

Quote from: CavScout;280401You and a few others here should form the "We can dish it out but can't take it" club. Perhaps Pundit will give you a special "my feelings are hurt" report button that sends a bat-signal like alert to OHT and he can come riding to your defense.

You also should stop watching the Big Bang Theory and realize women aren't the big mystery you and your other foolish buddies have convinced yourselves they are to cover-up your relationship failures.

If Shalvayez can't handle the heat, which we have seen he can't, he shouldn't play in the kitchen.

HAAHHAHAHA!!!  Ooh, that was a juicy piece of bait, troll clown!  Nice try!

Clop, clop, clop. Anyone got a sugar-lump?

Quote from: One Horse Town;280409Clop, clop, clop. Anyone got a sugar-lump?

Hey, I know this one from Bugs Bunny cartoons.  As soon as someone says something, BLAM!  Hammer to the face.

Hey CumShot, I'd gladly take a ban from posting ANYWHERE from Pundit and crew if it would also mean you would be banned. My offer stands, Pundit.

Quote from: StormBringer;280412Hey, I know this one from Bugs Bunny cartoons.  As soon as someone says something, BLAM!  Hammer to the face.

Not just any hammer. The ACME hammer. Worked for that coyote fella didn't it? Didn't it?

Excuse me, gentlemen, but I believe I'm supposed to make the ass-covering quips here.

Quote from: droog;280407Okay, basically I think that the Poobutt's moderation in RP has removed any source of interesting debate there. So people turn to OT for something with a bit of spark.

That's what you'd like to think. The swine wars got dull as fuck months before movie games became OT. I was glad to see them gone because I got nothing new to say, nor did anybody else on either side of the debate.

QuoteFurthermore, we've lost at least one good member directly due to the moderation in RP. I'm talking about Calithena.

AFAIK he wandered off because he didn't want to deal with acerbic debates any more, and focus on the positive side instead, e.g. Fight On. That's entirely different from leaving because of oppressive moderation.

Unless you can provide specific evidence, point dismissed.

QuoteI'm not so concerned with this particular piece of moderation, but it's all fitting into a pattern. This is the second direct precedent set. walkerp was banned in the same mealy-mouthed way. It's pathetic.

As you know, I was against wp's banning myself. But I, like most others on his side, weren't against it because wp was exactly a mainstay of discussions about anything.

QuoteJackalope actually does have points to make, and on a site where the admin calls people cunts, I can't see anything wrong with his approach (apart from the strategic dimension). I don't find that CavScout has many interesting things to say, but I don't think he's a troll as such, and I do think that people avoid answering some of his questions.

So we're getting moderation for 'disruption', as if we aren't grownups who can scroll past the noise. At this point one might as well return to RPG.net.

Neither J nor CS were banned for their RPG statements. Your tune has changed from an argument about "moderation oppresses awesome RPG debates" to an argument about "moderation oppresses freedum."

I dispute the former and have no interest in the latter.

Quote from: shalvayez;280415Hey CumShot, I'd gladly take a ban from posting ANYWHERE from Pundit and crew if it would also mean you would be banned. My offer stands, Pundit.

I am sure you would, since you post so little about RPGs anyways. It's funny watching you stir up shit and have all your little Off-Topic/Politic forums pals come run to your defense.

Perhaps you'll get a "don't pick on him" edict from Pundit, like Koltar did. Until then, don't think you can toss out barbs and think your immune to them being tossed back.

Although, having Pundit reverse course after giving carte blanche (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=279953&postcount=25) for petty name calling in this very thread would be amusing.

Quote from: Ian Absentia;280361"Active," yes, but not contributing. I trust you'll all recognise the difference.

!i!

Yes, and it's a good point. I take it then that your lurking presence means you still find this place interesting? Furthermore, if CavScout and Jackalope are now banned from the Politics subforum, what's stopping you from going back to the RPG subforum? :)

Well, Pierce, I think we're just trading assertions at this point. I've said my piece.

Right.

Have another droog point, droog.

Okay, are we done?  Can we be about games again?

Quote from: Ian Absentia;280361"Active," yes, but not contributing. I trust you'll all recognize the difference.

Speaking of which, some of us thought J Arcane never contributed, which of course leads to the natural assumption that we all probably disagree on who "contributes", and what "Contribution" really is.

I think "contribution" can, and likely should, vary.

Quote from: droog;280407So we're getting moderation for 'disruption', as if we aren't grownups who can scroll past the noise. At this point one might as well return to RPG.net.

I think that is a fair concern, and that simply dismissing it out of hand is a bad idea. Shouldn't we always strive to do better?

Quote from: Pierce Inverarity;280424Unless you can provide specific evidence, point dismissed.

By you. Who are you again?

QuoteI dispute the former and have no interest in the latter.

With out the latter, the former will quickly disappear, no matter what way you see it.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!;280443Okay, are we done?  Can we be about games again?

Say what topics do you start again? Sorry, I know it's a cheap shot-but seriously it's like Koltar wandering in and whining. Just post to the stuff that matters to you. Ignore the rest. Seems simple to me.

Quote from: Pierce Inverarity;280442Have another droog point, droog.

I mint them! Your points are worthless to me!

I'm not asking you to provide evidence for your assertions. We're both just voicing speculation, only it seems you don't like to think so.

Using the disruption clause to ban walkerp was not justified, and I maintain that Pundit was abusing a technicality when he made his decision. However, the accusation has merit in this case, as both Jackalope and CavScout have engaged in a high-volume non-communicative posting style that made political threads less useful in the last months and seemed to drive away more valuable contributors. The personal vendetta is just icing on the cake.

IMO, there is no big reason for complaint here unless we deal in abstractions - "Sic semper fucktards."

Quote from: Melan;280476"Sic semper fucktards."

Someone should make a t-shirt with that.

Quote from: droog;280407Okay, basically I think that the Poobutt's moderation in RP has removed any source of interesting debate there. So people turn to OT for something with a bit of spark.

Furthermore, we've lost at least one good member directly due to the moderation in RP. I'm talking about Calithena.

I'm not so concerned with this particular piece of moderation, but it's all fitting into a pattern. This is the second direct precedent set. walkerp was banned in the same mealy-mouthed way. It's pathetic.

Jackalope actually does have points to make, and on a site where the admin calls people cunts, I can't see anything wrong with his approach (apart from the strategic dimension). I don't find that CavScout has many interesting things to say, but I don't think he's a troll as such, and I do think that people avoid answering some of his questions.

So we're getting moderation for 'disruption', as if we aren't grownups who can scroll past the noise. At this point one might as well return to RPG.net.

Uh huh. So your basic point in all this is "I want to use this situation, like I have tried all others before it, to try to make RPGPundit look bad, and to try to coerce/force the inclusion of Forge-theory and Forge-related-jargon into this site so it can be co-opted by the Storygames movement".

Yes, clearly you're not just a worthless waste of bandwith here, or indeed throughout your time on this site.

If this site were like my version of RPG.net, you'd have been banned YEARS ago.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Jackalope;280159Even you're mom knows.

That should read "Even your mom knows."  There shouldn't be an apostrophe.

To be fair, I'd accept "Even yo mamma knows", but not "Even yo're mamma knows".

Hope that helps.

On an arguably related note, annoying as I'm sure this ban must be for you, going postal about it isn't really the best way to argue against it.

Oh, I disagree with forum banning Cavscout and Jackalope by the way, I'd rather if we have to do that we just banned the politics subforum.

Some folk should frankly grow a pair in dealing with these two, I've never struggled to hard.  You argue if you feel like it, you ignore if you don't.  It's not that difficult.

But I'm not persuaded a politics subforum fits the concept of this site, this is not rpg.net, someone suggested renaming off topic something like Geek Related Media and I'd support that and not have any concept of wholly off topic at all.

And, while I'm on the subject, I fucking hate the indie stuff - even the indie stuff I don't like - getting put into off topic.  It's petty.  Just put it in the rpg section and if it doesn't interest you ignore it.

Christ, how annoying, all this reminds me of rpg.net and posters needing to be protected.  This is not the site for that, peole here should protect themselves.

Quote from: Werekoala;280074A step in the right direction - not that I've been missed, but it'll be nice to end my self-imposed exile.

Self-imposed exiles are the best exiles :)

Quote from: RPGPundit;280126I know you dislike me, but this is pretty sad.

I don't know you to dislike you - I only know the online persona you affect. I do, however, dislike it when you lie about how you moderate the site and your conscious and dogged effort to crap on 4e. Outside those two things...meh.

Quote from: RPGPundit;280126Again, there's a difference between speech and behaviour.

Yes, there is. And, according to you, people can say whatever they'd like here. The trouble with Jackalope and CavScout (and the others you've banned), you tell us, is their behavior.

Here's the thing, however: Once you separate out what their actually saying, what we're left with is behavior like that many other display. For example, there are quite a few posters who will rush into any and every 4e thread to take a rather large dump on it.

So, if it's okay for you to make a point of being vociferous and nasty in every 4e thread, why isn't it okay for anyone else to do the same for a topic of their choosing? Or, looking at it backwards, if some folks turning every political thread into a flamewar is considered disruptive, why aren't you handing out topic or site bans over 4e?

Seanchai

Quote from: hgjs;280302Bear cavalry!

(http://www.russian-victories.ru/bear_cavalry.jpg)

That picture is AWESOME!

Seanchai

Quote from: Balbinus;280514Some folk should frankly grow a pair in dealing with these two, I've never struggled to hard.  You argue if you feel like it, you ignore if you don't...Christ, how annoying, all this reminds me of rpg.net and posters needing to be protected.  This is not the site for that, peole here should protect themselves.

These are pretty much my thoughts on the matter.

I thought the RPGSite was for big boys and girls. A gloves off kind of place. Posting here was supposed to be at your own risk because there weren't any moderators nanny goating the other posters.

Now we apparently have a Mommy Patrol that polices the site to make sure people's feelings don't get hurt because posters aren't apparently man or woman enough to just ignore folks.

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;280531Yes, there is. And, according to you, people can say whatever they'd like here. The trouble with Jackalope and CavScout (and the others you've banned), you tell us, is their behavior.

Here's the thing, however: Once you separate out what their actually saying, what we're left with is behavior like that many other display. For example, there are quite a few posters who will rush into any and every 4e thread to take a rather large dump on it.

So, if it's okay for you to make a point of being vociferous and nasty in every 4e thread, why isn't it okay for anyone else to do the same for a topic of their choosing? Or, looking at it backwards, if some folks turning every political thread into a flamewar is considered disruptive, why aren't you handing out topic or site bans over 4e?

Seanchai

I'm much more cautious about taking action when people are expressing behaviour related to talk about RPGs.  On the other hand, I have already expressed that I'll be much less tolerant when it comes to politics and other off-topic subjects, which are NOT the focus of this site.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Seanchai;280536I thought the RPGSite was for big boys and girls. A gloves off kind of place. Posting here was supposed to be at your own risk because there weren't any moderators nanny goating the other posters.

I used to think that way, too, but Pundit's made it very clear that this isn't that kind of site. I think that was the original ideal, because it made for a more clear division for the original defection, but as time goes on, caveats and exceptions have crept back in, and now it's something a little different. Once you realize that, you have a few options; I've chosen to tolerate it while gritting my teeth. I find moderation by anything other than democratic process to be onerous and arbitrary and irritating, but ultimately, this isn't my house, and I've chosen to respect the rules of the house I'm in, while lodging my desires for change.

Quote from: gleichman;280522Self-imposed exiles are the best exiles :)

Hello Gleichman and Werekoala - good to see you're both still around.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;280337I don't think Pundit's wholly responsible, but we have seen an exodus of well-known posters over the past half-year or so. David R, Ian Absentia, walkerp, gleichman (I take responsibility - nay, joy - in being responsible for driving off that trog), J_Arcane, and Settembrini are a few that come to mind immediately.

Sorry bucko, One Horse Town gets that credit and not you. I took it as friendly advice at the time.

It was good advice (and advice I still intend to follow), although I am enjoying this thread which is a bad thing. Watching car wrecks and all.

Quote from: Koltar;280545Hello Gleichman and Werekoala - good to see you're both still around.

I'm afraid I have to lurk a little these days. I blame Zarchery and Adaen of Bridgewater.

Quote from: gleichman;280546Sorry bucko, One Horse Town gets that credit and not you. I took it as friendly advice at the time.

Glad you decided to poke your head back in again. :)

Quote from: RPGPundit;280537I'm much more cautious about taking action when people are expressing behaviour related to talk about RPGs.

In other words, contrary to what you've already said, it is about what they were saying.

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;280580In other words, contrary to what you've already said, it is about what they were saying.

Seanchai

Yes, right. I banned them both because I am simultaneously a horrible Ann Coulter-esque Right Wing Fascist who hates Jackalope and a terrifying Hugo-Chavez-esque left wing pinko freedom-hater that hates Cavscout. It was ALL about what they said.  :rolleyes:

Please, bitch, let's get specific here: what do you think it was they were "saying" that made me ban them from politics? Please, explain it to ALL of us, motherfucker. If its so fucking obvious to you that I'm an evil fascist banning people for what they say, please tell me exactly what they SAID that got them banned? Please, tell us all. NOW, cunt. It should be easy for you, what with your doing cartwheels to try to claim "it was about what they said", now put your motherfucking money where your bitch mouth is...

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;280608Please, bitch, let's get specific here: what do you think it was they were "saying" that made me ban them from politics?

Shrug. I haven't a clue.

But you banned them from political discussions for either a) what they were saying or b) how they were saying it.

You've said repeatedly - even in this very thread - that people won't be moderated for what they say. In other words, your subject matter doesn't matter. You can say whatever you'd like, you just can't "be disruptive."

So you have to have banned them for their behavior. And you've said as much.

I pointed out their behavior is basically the same as people engaging in flame wars about 4e. It's not as if, for example, the only asshats on the RPGSite are in the politics subforum.

You say, then, that they got banned because it was a discussion about politics, not RPGs. That's subject matter. That's what they said, not how they said it.

In other words, the bit about not being banned for what you say and only how you say it is sham. A flimflam. A lie.

I can understand why you're upset and cussing up a storm. You've been caught. Outed. You can continue to froth at the mouth, spitting out less and less credible statements, or you could take a more reasonable tack.

I see two more reasonable tacks (although no doubt you'll simply continue to call me a cunt and a motherfucker):

1. Back away from this apparently unsustainable ideology of no moderation.

2. Un-ban folks.

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;280628Shrug. I haven't a clue.

But you banned them from political discussions for either a) what they were saying or b) how they were saying it.

You've said repeatedly - even in this very thread - that people won't be moderated for what they say. In other words, your subject matter doesn't matter. You can say whatever you'd like, you just can't "be disruptive."

So you have to have banned them for their behavior. And you've said as much.

I pointed out their behavior is basically the same as people engaging in flame wars about 4e. It's not as if, for example, the only asshats on the RPGSite are in the politics subforum.

The purpose of the site is free discussion of roleplaying games.  People often focus on the first part but forget the rest.  It has been said a number of times in the past that the non-RPG parts of the site don't have the same standard.

If an unmoderated off-topic is best for the on-topic forums then it should be unmoderated, and visa versa.

Quote from: gleichman;280522Self-imposed exiles are the best exiles :)

Missed you too, snoogums. :)

Quote from: RPGPundit;280505Uh huh. So your basic point in all this is "I want to use this situation, like I have tried all others before it, to try to make RPGPundit look bad, and to try to coerce/force the inclusion of Forge-theory and Forge-related-jargon into this site so it can be co-opted by the Storygames movement".

You're a paranoid idiot. As if you need me to make yourself look bad!

Quote from: hgjs;280649The purpose of the site is free discussion of roleplaying games.  People often focus on the first part but forget the rest.  It has been said a number of times in the past that the non-RPG parts of the site don't have the same standard.

If an unmoderated off-topic is best for the on-topic forums then it should be unmoderated, and visa versa.

You seem to be missing Seanchai's point. If a "behavior" is so disruptive to warrant a ban in the Politics forum, a forum acknowledged over and over by the mods as not being the focus of the site, then he wants to know why similar, if not identical, disruptive behavior is allowed in the core forums of the site that deal with RPGs.

In fact, the real question is, wouldn't disruptive behavior in the RPG related sections of the site deserve harsher moderation then the trivial none core sections?

Quote from: gleichman;280546Sorry bucko, One Horse Town gets that credit and not you. I took it as friendly advice at the time.

It was good advice (and advice I still intend to follow), although I am enjoying this thread which is a bad thing. Watching car wrecks and all.

Meanwhile, I'm enjoying your blog. IMO your* more of a blog person than a forum person, if you know what I mean.

*you're (sorry, just messing with Balb)

Quote from: Balbinus;280514Some folk should frankly grow a pair in dealing with these two, I've never struggled to hard.

You've never struggled to what? Is that what the boys are calling it now?

Quote from: CavScout;280658You seem to be missing Seanchai's point. If a "behavior" is so disruptive to warrant a ban in the Politics forum, a forum acknowledged over and over by the mods as not being the focus of the site, then he wants to know why similar, if not identical, disruptive behavior is allowed in the core forums of the site that deal with RPGs.

In fact, the real question is, wouldn't disruptive behavior in the RPG related sections of the site deserve harsher moderation then the trivial none core sections?

The entire purpose of this site is free discussion of roleplaying games.  If some people are driven away by free discussion of roleplaying games, well, I suppose this site isn't for them.  There are other forums out there they will enjoy more.

If people are driven away by free discussion of politics, that's completely different, and it makes sense to nip that in the bud.

Quote from: hgjs;280698The entire purpose of this site is free discussion of roleplaying games.  If some people are driven away by free discussion of roleplaying games, well, I suppose this site isn't for them.  There are other forums out there they will enjoy more.

If people are driven away by free discussion of politics, that's completely different, and it makes sense to nip that in the bud.

But then we are back to what people are saying and not behavior, something Pundit is adamant is not what happened.

Quote from: CavScout;280706But then we are back to what people are saying and not behavior, something Pundit is adamant is not what happened.

I didn't address the specific reason for the moderation: I was explaining to Seanchai why there is a different standard for the roleplaying and off-topic areas.  But I would like to address the question you bring up of "speech" versus "behavior."

I think most of the problem is due to unclear language, since all of someone's behavior on a message board is saying things.  But setting that language aside, I think it's clear what RPGPundit meant:

Quote from: RPGPundit;280126Think that islam is a terrible danger to civilization? You're entitled to say so. Say so in every single thread on OT, regardless of relevancy, and you've got a behaviour problem.
Capish?

If that's what Pundit meant, it be interesting to see what I am accused of posting in every thread regardless of relevancy.

Quote from: hgjs;280698The entire purpose of this site is free discussion of roleplaying games.

As long as my free discussion doesn't offend you that is, because let's be frank. Any RPG discussion you guys don't like is shut down pretty quickly. So when you guys say free, what you really mean is with in acceptable parameters. Shamefully those parameters are subject to change at your whims.

This is not to say it's an overwhelming  and everyday problem, but for me once is too much. For you, obviously the line is different. Since you pay the bills guess who gets to deal with it? :) And since I still post, I guess I'm doing okay.

Quote from: Seanchai;280628Shrug. I haven't a clue.

But you banned them from political discussions for either a) what they were saying or b) how they were saying it.

You've said repeatedly - even in this very thread - that people won't be moderated for what they say. In other words, your subject matter doesn't matter. You can say whatever you'd like, you just can't "be disruptive."

So you have to have banned them for their behavior. And you've said as much.

I pointed out their behavior is basically the same as people engaging in flame wars about 4e. It's not as if, for example, the only asshats on the RPGSite are in the politics subforum.

You say, then, that they got banned because it was a discussion about politics, not RPGs. That's subject matter. That's what they said, not how they said it.

In other words, the bit about not being banned for what you say and only how you say it is sham. A flimflam. A lie.

I can understand why you're upset and cussing up a storm. You've been caught. Outed. You can continue to froth at the mouth, spitting out less and less credible statements, or you could take a more reasonable tack.

I see two more reasonable tacks (although no doubt you'll simply continue to call me a cunt and a motherfucker):

1. Back away from this apparently unsustainable ideology of no moderation.

2. Un-ban folks.

Seanchai

Ohhh-kay. So you are screaming at the top of your lungs that they were banned for what they said, but you don't actually know what they were banned for saying...  :rolleyes:

The fact that they were banned for asshat activities in Politics, and I'll note that NO ONE is up to that level of asshat activities in Roleplay at this time (the equivalent would not be "badmouthing 4e in 4e threads", it would be "turning every thread, including utterly unrelated ones, into a soapbox of their personal issues about 4e", which no one is doing right now), does not mean that they were banned because of their political speech. The fact that you can't actually explain what speech they were supposedly banned for pretty much means your line of pathetic argument has gone down in flames.

Just admit that and bow out of this one dude, your line of argument was challenged for proof, found wanting, and your only chance to come out of this with a scrap of dignity is to walk away now and not compound your idiocy.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;280722Ohhh-kay. So you are screaming at the top of your lungs that they were banned for what they said, but you don't actually know what they were banned for saying...  :rolleyes:

The fact that they were banned for asshat activities in Politics, and I'll note that NO ONE is up to that level of asshat activities in Roleplay at this time (the equivalent would not be "badmouthing 4e in 4e threads", it would be "turning every thread, including utterly unrelated ones, into a soapbox of their personal issues about 4e", which no one is doing right now), does not mean that they were banned because of their political speech. The fact that you can't actually explain what speech they were supposedly banned for pretty much means your line of pathetic argument has gone down in flames.

Just admit that and bow out of this one dude, your line of argument was challenged for proof, found wanting, and your only chance to come out of this with a scrap of dignity is to walk away now and not compound your idiocy.

Well as you really can't even show "what behavior they were banned for doing" that isn't pretty much in line with any number of other posters, I suspect you should bow out yourself.

To limit your idiocy and all that.

I mean if it was the "behavior" of engaging Jackie occasionally, I am not sure why others who certainly took delight in it, say Spike or Bill, didn't share the same fate.

Quote from: CavScout;280706But then we are back to what people are saying and not behavior, something Pundit is adamant is not what happened.

The only way you could claim that is if you suggest "I was banned for talking about politics", as in PERIOD, that it wasn't any particular politics, just talking about politics itself got you banned; and this is demonstrably false given that we have lots of people talking about politics who have not gotten banned.

The alternative is to claim you were banned for your specific political speech. Are even you really claiming that?   Certainly, the right-wing leaning folks are in a relative minority on this site, but there are others (Jeff, for example), who's politics are about the same as yours, and who have not gotten banned from Politics.
So do you really think that it was some particular political belief you have stated on this forum that got you banned?

Really, there are only two logical lines of argument you can make here: that you were banned because of your personality (ie. that either the mods don't like your personality and we banned you for that, or that certain other posters didn't like your personality and successfully campaigned to get you banned because of that); or that you were banned for your behaviour rather than any particular belief you hold.  And really, "behaviour" is just one aspect of personality, so they're really both just the same argument, only one is suggestive of having been an "Unfair" banning, while the other suggests the banning was justified.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Serious Paul;280721As long as my free discussion doesn't offend you that is, because let's be frank. Any RPG discussion you guys don't like is shut down pretty quickly. So when you guys say free, what you really mean is with in acceptable parameters. Shamefully those parameters are subject to change at your whims.

Pardon me? When do we "shut down" RPG discussion?  We have, on one or two occasions, shut down a thread when it has de-evolved into nothing more than a pissing match (usually after a dozen or more pages); and if its Forge/Storygames-related threads you're talking about, those are NOT shut down, they are simply moved to the appropriate forum, where they remain OPEN and anyone who wants to can continue writing in them.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;280725The only way you could claim that is if you suggest "I was banned for talking about politics", as in PERIOD, that it wasn't any particular politics, just talking about politics itself got you banned; and this is demonstrably false given that we have lots of people talking about politics who have not gotten banned.

The alternative is to claim you were banned for your specific political speech. Are even you really claiming that?   Certainly, the right-wing leaning folks are in a relative minority on this site, but there are others (Jeff, for example), who's politics are about the same as yours, and who have not gotten banned from Politics.
So do you really think that it was some particular political belief you have stated on this forum that got you banned?

Really, there are only two logical lines of argument you can make here: that you were banned because of your personality (ie. that either the mods don't like your personality and we banned you for that, or that certain other posters didn't like your personality and successfully campaigned to get you banned because of that); or that you were banned for your behaviour rather than any particular belief you hold.  And really, "behaviour" is just one aspect of personality, so they're really both just the same argument, only one is suggestive of having been an "Unfair" banning, while the other suggests the banning was justified.

Actually, I don't have to prove anything. You took the actions and claim to have a reason behind them. It is up to you to prove what they were. That we can easily dismantle the given reasons is pox on you, not us.

Oh, and the claim that others hold similar beliefs is a non sequitur. That's like arguing you didn't punch one kid in the room because you didn't punch all the kids in the room.

My "behavior" has been the same throughout the entirety of the site; the only difference is what was "said" in each forum.

Put more simply: Cav , you and Jackalope were ruining evey thread you entered by doing the knee-jerk back and forth crap.

Some pretty interesting threads became no longer readable because of that crap.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;280735Put more simply: Cav , you and Jackalope were ruining evey thread you entered by doing the knee-jerk back and forth crap.

Some pretty interesting threads became no longer readable because of that crap.

And Spike or Bill's back-and-forths with Jackie were ok why?

PS: The claim of "every thread" is utter bunk. Utter, utter bunk. The movie thread, where I did post, didn't have a back and forth with me and Jack, it was Jack and several others.

Quote from: Balbinus;280514Some folk should frankly grow a pair in dealing with these two, I've never struggled to hard.  You argue if you feel like it, you ignore if you don't.  It's not that difficult.

Assuming I'm among the camp addressed here, I'll take a moment to respond.

By way of analogy, it's a lot like being at a party.  In fact, it's exactly like being at a party.  You're enjoying yourself just fine for most of the night, but then a couple of assholes show up and it starts being not-so-fun. But you're still up for a good time, and, after a confrontation or two with these assholes, you decide to make the best of it and just ignore them.  So you're getting along fine, but then you start to notice that, even though you're ignoring them, everyone else's conversation seems to revolve around these assholes.  Then you start to notice that the interesting people at the party are leaving one-by-one, either because they're tired of these assholes or because the conversation is all about these assholes. Maybe it's just that the party was dying down anyway...or maybe it really is the assholes.  You want to keep a good buzz on, so you decide to leave, too.  Maybe you'll drop by later to see if the assholes have left.  But sometimes parties just turn into someplace for assholes to congregate for the night until the host turns out the lights and locks the door.

Is that plain enough?  Hey, great party, but those assholes are killing my buzz. I'll stop in later to see how things are going.

Quote from: RPGPundit;280727...if its Forge/Storygames-related threads you're talking about, those are NOT shut down, they are simply moved to the appropriate forum, where they remain OPEN and anyone who wants to can continue writing in them.

Right.  They're just ghettoised like the D&D/d20 threads over on RPG.net. I distinctly recall your outrage over that move.

!i!

Quote from: Balbinus;280514Oh, I disagree with forum banning Cavscout and Jackalope by the way, I'd rather if we have to do that we just banned the politics subforum.

Some folk should frankly grow a pair in dealing with these two, I've never struggled to hard.  You argue if you feel like it, you ignore if you don't.  It's not that difficult.

I was on this opinion until the last few months, but gradually changed my mind. IMO this is not really an issue about offense. It is an issue about dumping what essentially amounts to hostile white noise on a subforum and derailing discussion towards a few pet peeves. There has been a marked decrease in the quality of political discussion here, and I chalk it up to a particular style of non-communication that is becoming rather common over the Net and society in general - argumentum ad nauseam, the refusal to consider any contrary opinion, boiling arguments down to mantras, sound bites and personal insults, etc. That's not speech deserving of protection, that's clogging up and degrading the public forums - in essence, preventing them from functioning correctly.

Quote from: Ian Absentia;280743Hey, great party, but those assholes are killing my buzz.

Dude, have another beer and forget those shitheads. They're going to puke on each other any minute.

But hey, if you're coming back later do you think you can pick up some weed?

Quote from: Ian Absentia;280743Assuming I'm among the camp addressed here, I'll take a moment to respond.

By way of analogy, it's a lot like being at a party.  In fact, it's exactly like being at a party.  You're enjoying yourself just fine for most of the night, but then a couple of assholes show up and it starts being not-so-fun. But you're still up for a good time, and, after a confrontation or two with these assholes, you decide to make the best of it and just ignore them.  So you're getting along fine, but then you start to notice that, even though you're ignoring them, everyone else's conversation seems to revolve around these assholes.  Then you start to notice that the interesting people at the party are leaving one-by-one, either because they're tired of these assholes or because the conversation is all about these assholes. Maybe it's just that the party was dying down anyway...or maybe it really is the assholes.  You want to keep a good buzz on, so you decide to leave, too.  Maybe you'll drop by later to see if the assholes have left.  But sometimes parties just turn into someplace for assholes to congregate for the night until the host turns out the lights and locks the door.

Is that plain enough?  Hey, great party, but those assholes are killing my buzz. I'll stop in later to see how things are going.Right.  

Except the story is more like you had your little party and didn't like the newcomer. So you tried the usual tactic of overwhelming them with your own rhetoric, but that didn't work. Then you tried the group thing, that didn't work either. Then you tried to play victim and started the "ignore the troll" campaign, yet that didn't work. Then you resorted to the "if politics isn't the way I want it to be, I'll not talk RPGs either" route.

Quote from: Ian Absentia;280743Right.  They're just ghettoised like the D&D/d20 threads over on RPG.net. I distinctly recall your outrage over that move.

!i!

When the single most popular RPG on the planet is sent out to the ghetto, that is a cause for outrage.  When its a group of games and theories that aren't even RPGs but are part of a movement that is attempting to co-opt and subvert the RPG hobby to serve the interest of a handful of pretentious degenerates, its a cause for celebration, that finally someone somewhere is standing up for Regular RPGs.

RPGPundit

With you, of course, as the ultimate arbiter of what is, and is not, an RPG. Making a perfectly unbiased judgment, of course.

I think the problem is that some people feel they've just swapped tyrants; the new one is less tyrannical, and possesses different "politics," but it's the fact of the tyranny itself that bothers some of us. You judge what's "disruptive," you judge what's an RPG, you judge when "how someone says something" matters; now, it's your house, so I play nice, but I - speaking only for myself, now - would prefer some sort of "rule by the people," in which these decisions are not made by a single mind, a single voice, but by the populace itself.

You could call it δημοκρατία, or dimokratia, from the Greek "dēmos," people, and "kratos," which not only means "rule," but also - and this is the important bit - strength. I believe rule by the people is stronger, less arbitrary, less dependent on the whims of one man, than rule by singular fiat. Or maybe I just like to have my say, and have it matter, in some small way.

Quote from: Engine;280781but I - speaking only for myself, now - would prefer some sort of "rule by the people," in which these decisions are not made by a single mind, a single voice, but by the populace itself.

I think RPGPundit is basically a mirror Ron and of questionable worth as a human being. But he's at least better than the world of mob rule you'd like to see.

Except of course, you're basically lying here. If you wanted to see it, you'd go off and do it yourself. But you won't. You'd much rather tear down something another built and pat yourself on the back while you do it.

Quote from: Engine;280781...now, it's your house, so I play nice, but I - speaking only for myself, now - would prefer some sort of "rule by the people," in which these decisions are not made by a single mind, a single voice, but by the populace itself.

I'm beginning to lean the other way, frankly.  Running with my previous analogy, I think people need to stop thinking of online forums as fledgling nation-states and start thinking of them as parties.  You have a host and a theme, and you gauge the success of the party by a combination of the number of people who show up, the number of people who stick around, the quality of the interaction, and how much fun people are having.  And when a couple of assholes turn up at the door, the party will be judged by how the host chooses to deal with them, and the guests will start voting with their feet.

!i!

Quote from: gleichman;280788Except of course, you're basically lying here. If you wanted to see it, you'd go off and do it yourself. But you won't. You'd much rather tear down something another built and pat yourself on the back while you do it.

Yeah he doesn't maintain two separate boards at all. And they're not Bulldrek (http://bulldrek.freespeech-alpha.com/index.php) or Freespeech Alpha (http://www.freespeech-alpha.com/index.php).  Why don't you go sell your venom somewhere else Gleichman? Oh wait, that's right a Troll needs victims to feed on. Maybe you'll get lucky and Jackie will play with you.

Personally I hope you return your self imposed exile, as frankly you've nothing new oe interesting to say, as usual. Par for the course.

Quote from: gleichman;280788Except of course, you're basically lying here. If you wanted to see it, you'd go off and do it yourself. But you won't.

Yeah, as Paul says, I've been there and done that. Until a few years ago, when I stopped having enough time to run such things properly, I maintained a succession of websites stretching back about a decade which utilized democratic principles and lack of moderation; the 254,429 posts on the [now largely archival] Bulldrek site are actually less than half the total posts racked up under such principles [the earlier boards were lost in an ezboard attack some years ago], with virtually no complaints and only a few dustups involving people trying to do end-runs around the system. [Oh, Cain and your pi-posting...]

Anyway, you won't let evidence to the contrary stop you, so I've never bothered to point this out before, and rather wish Paul hadn't done so now, but whatever. Democratic moderation really can work, and I've a decade of evidence to support it. Whether it would work here depends largely on the users themselves; I leave you to judge the characteristics of this user base.

Quote from: Serious Paul;280793Yeah he doesn't maintain two separate boards at all. And they're not Bulldrek (http://bulldrek.freespeech-alpha.com/index.php) or Freespeech Alpha (http://www.freespeech-alpha.com/index.php).  Why don't you go sell your venom somewhere else Gleichman? Oh wait, that's right a Troll needs victims to feed on. Maybe you'll get lucky and Jackie will play with you.

You've always been a halfwit.

There's nothing about Engine that would indicate he has anything to do with those boards. I don't see "Engine" in the "Who Are We" section now do I?

Assuming that's he's so proud of his behavior here to use a different handle than he does elsewhere, I'm still not impressed.

Both are showing less traffic than my new blog (and my new blog is crap). The first link hasn't seen a topic post (i.e. not a 'gathering or suggestion post) for 20 days while the second was lasted posted to in August of last year.

If this is what we should measure Engine's ""rule by the people" by, it's no wonder he's bitching around here hoping someone else like Pundit can make his lame ideas actually work.

Quote from: Engine;280798Yeah, as Paul says, I've been there and done that. Until a few years ago, when I stopped having enough time to run such things properly,

And then they die?

I thought these things were "rule by people", those don't die when the creator runs out of time (or rather, inside of running those sites moves to others so he can bash them and say how much better things would be if they ran it his way). If they were want you say, they'd be still on-going by definition.

Quote from: gleichman;280800Assuming that's he's so proud of his behavior here to use a different handle than he does elsewhere, I'm still not impressed.

Oh, no, over the course of a decade, I changed my username three times! I much be so ashamed.

Quote from: gleichman;280800Both are showing less traffic than my new blog (and my new blog is crap).

Yeah, they're archival; both boards closed, and the remaining users moved to Animalball some years ago. Seriously, gleichman, you don't know the history of those people, or me, in any meaningful way, so probably you'd look less stupid if you'd stop trying to guess. You could ask questions, but you won't, because the truth doesn't concern you.

Quote from: gleichman;280802If they were want you say, they'd be still on-going by definition.

A healthy forum requires administration; without an administrator, they will fall apart. We switched admins, but she didn't work out, and the userbase moved to Animalball, while my forums were closed. I rebuilt the original backups a few years ago so people could access their material - lots of game stuff on there, and a lot of history - and allowed existing users to continue posting, while not accepting new users.

*Shakes his head*

Ever time I think you've sunk as far as any asshole could, you prove me wrong. I know convicts with more class than you Gleichman.

Quote from: Engine;280803Yeah, they're archival; both boards closed, and the remaining users moved to Animalball some years ago. Seriously, gleichman, you don't know the history of those people, or me, in any meaningful way, so probably you'd look less stupid if you'd stop trying to guess. You could ask questions, but you won't, because the truth doesn't concern you.

I'm not interest in asking questions about things years ago that can only be answered by people who have a vested interest in claiming success. Any buch of jackasses (you and Paul cases in point) can build up a post count. Hell, mob rule is famous for that- it's part of it's vary definition.

You want to prove a point- do it now, and do it on the same subjects that this site addresses. And see who does better. Otherwise you're blowing nothing but hot air.

Quote from: Serious Paul;280806*Shakes his head*

Ever time I think you've sunk as far as any asshole could, you prove me wrong. I know convicts with more class than you Gleichman.

Paul, by your own words you've stated that any act, any statment are moral equals. Don't try to hold the high ground you deny exists, it makes you a hyprocritc.

But then again, maybe that's exactly what you are.

Blah, blah, blah. The usual story with you. Yawn. Let me know when you've got something real to say, otherwise I'm off to have some lunch, maybe do something that's actually entertaining.

Quote from: Engine;280804A healthy forum requires administration. . .

Bah.. bah... bah.

More ancient history that doesn't matter, doesn't address the question, and again comes from someone with a vested interest in claiming success.

Put your money where your month is- restart you forums and get the hell out of other peoples business- even if it is Pundits. Heaven knows you have enough time to whine here- that's enough time to admin a "rule of the people" site.

Quote from: Serious Paul;280810Blah, blah, blah. The usual story with you. Yawn. Let me know when you've got something real to say, otherwise I'm off to have some lunch, maybe do something that's actually entertaining.

Like lie to yourself more. Yes, I can understand why you'd need some private time for that.

I feel bad for you, Brian, I really do. You made a couple of claims in ignorance that were demonstrably untrue, and your pride won't let you back up. The fact is, democratic moderation can and has worked, and if you don't believe me, ask any of the hundreds of members who aren't ignorant of the situation; we left a site with heavy moderation [dumpshock] to start our own, and it worked.

Would it work here? I don't know; that's certainly debatable. We were very fortunate to have a mature userbase who really understood the basic principles of the site, and a large group of people who'd been burned by heavy moderation. There is no doubt that the circumstances and the users were a major, major influence in the success of the site; the principles themselves are hardly universally-applicable. All I can do is share my own experiences with the issue at hand, and you can object all you want, but the evidence is all right there.

Sorry to have backed you into a corner; that wasn't my intention. Please, feel free to have the last word on the subject:

Quote from: Engine;280814I feel bad for you, Brian, I really do. You made a couple of claims in ignorance that were demonstrably untrue, and your pride won't let you back up.

There's nothing to back up to. My original point stands.

It was if you remember this:

Quote from: gleichman;280788I think RPGPundit is basically a mirror Ron and of questionable worth as a human being. But he's at least better than the world of mob rule you'd like to see.

Except of course, you're basically lying here. If you wanted to see it, you'd go off and do it yourself. But you won't. You'd much rather tear down something another built and pat yourself on the back while you do it.

There wasn't anything there that says it can't be done.

Years ago about a website that I never heard of (but I did know about dumpshock) had no bearing on the point I was trying to make, and bring up your past with a dead site was a stupid play on Paul's part.

Put your money where your month is.

Leave. Go. Do.

Now.

And maybe this site would become a little more worth reading and posting at. Take your wingman Paul with you.

Quote from: Engine;280781With you, of course, as the ultimate arbiter of what is, and is not, an RPG. Making a perfectly unbiased judgment, of course.

I think the problem is that some people feel they've just swapped tyrants; the new one is less tyrannical, and possesses different "politics," but it's the fact of the tyranny itself that bothers some of us. You judge what's "disruptive," you judge what's an RPG, you judge when "how someone says something" matters; now, it's your house, so I play nice, but I - speaking only for myself, now - would prefer some sort of "rule by the people," in which these decisions are not made by a single mind, a single voice, but by the populace itself.

You could call it δημοκρατία, or dimokratia, from the Greek "dēmos," people, and "kratos," which not only means "rule," but also - and this is the important bit - strength. I believe rule by the people is stronger, less arbitrary, less dependent on the whims of one man, than rule by singular fiat. Or maybe I just like to have my say, and have it matter, in some small way.

Of course you do, because your mob rule (that's NOT how democracy works, by the way) would mean that whatever little clique got the most votes could make any rules they wanted.
That's how the RPG.net modclique started.

Meanwhile, the "constitutional democracy" we have here means that you are voting in favour of me being in charge of things here by the act of you being here and participating in this site that I own. In exchange, I have outlined very clearly what my own rules are, which (as per my own rules) you are free and allowed to disagree with because those rules include free speech, but not free to disregard.

The day the majority decides that they don't want me to be in charge, they'll go off and make a competing website that works; quite a few have tried already, thus far all have failed or languish in obscurity.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Serious Paul;280793Yeah he doesn't maintain two separate boards at all. And they're not Bulldrek (http://bulldrek.freespeech-alpha.com/index.php) or Freespeech Alpha (http://www.freespeech-alpha.com/index.php).  

Well... "maintain" is about the nicest term you can use there. His triumphal competitor-site dedicated to free speech and liberty from the tyranny of RPGPundit hasn't had a single entry since August of 2008.

Excuse me while I chuckle.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Engine;280804A healthy forum requires administration; without an administrator, they will fall apart. We switched admins, but she didn't work out, and the userbase moved to Animalball, while my forums were closed. I rebuilt the original backups a few years ago so people could access their material - lots of game stuff on there, and a lot of history - and allowed existing users to continue posting, while not accepting new users.

So, the long and the short of it is, one way or the other, you failed, right?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;280828Of course you do, because your mob rule (that's NOT how democracy works, by the way) would mean that whatever little clique got the most votes could make any rules they wanted.

That's not really my experience, but I understand that it's yours. As I say, I can only share my own experiences, and I hardly expect you to turn the power you have over to everyone else; that would be most uncharacteristic of you.

Quote from: RPGPundit;280829His triumphal competitor-site...

Competitor? Pundit, if a site that closed several years ago and is being archived online is a competitor, you're in bigger trouble than I thought! Please, don't get the impression that these are active websites, or websites that are in any way competing with you today; they're simply examples [and freespeech isn't a very good one, since that's more design exercise than forum, anyway] of democratically-moderated sites that worked just fine. There's nothing more to it than that, seriously.

Quote from: RPGPundit;280830So, the long and the short of it is, one way or the other, you failed, right?

Yes, after ten years, 500,000+ posts, and me no longer having enough time to continue, I definitely failed. Mea culpa.

Quote from: Engine;280832Yes, after ten years, 500,000+ posts, and me no longer having enough time to continue, I definitely failed. Mea culpa.

Ten years during which I was actively searching for a Shadowrun resources and your site never entered the picture. Meanwhile Dumpshock continued on quite nicely, was a useful resource, is still running to this day, and was easily found by me.

And if anything Dump Shock seems to me to be better for your absence, and given that like draws like- likely the absence of your buddies like Paul too.

I call that last point a success for the general world. Please, oh please- duplicate that success again. Make therpgsite a better place.

Go prove you can do better than RPGPundit. Faster please.

Quote from: hgjs;280649The purpose of the site is free discussion of roleplaying games.  People often focus on the first part but forget the rest.

Probably because I've never heard this before. Pundit goes on and on about how the site is unmoderated, not about how parts of the site are unmoderated.

But, really, if the RPGsite is going to have a strong RPG - and that's something I agree with, by the way - why have an Off Topic section at all? Why spend time and energy on it, moderating it, creating subforums, etc.?

Seanchai

Quote from: hgjs;280698If people are driven away by free discussion of politics, that's completely different, and it makes sense to nip that in the bud.

No, it doesn't seem to. If the RPGSite is about RPGs, then I should be here for the RPG discussion. If I'm offended about political discussions, well, so what? I'm here for the RPGs. Now if the RPG discussion was offensive, that's another matter because that's my primary purpose in coming here...

Seanchai

Man, look at this... some thread crapping and folks turning a thread into something about them and their own little petty pissing matches. Perhaps some forum bannings are in order. :D

I'm done talking about me, by the way. If anyone else would like to continue to whine about how a community that lasted a decade and produced over half a million posts is a "failure," please, feel free to do so; no one involved in it thought so, so I don't much mind. :teehee: I'm pretty confident in its history, and I don't mind letting it stand without me to defend it.

Quote from: Seanchai;280837No, it doesn't seem to. If the RPGSite is about RPGs, then I should be here for the RPG discussion. If I'm offended about political discussions, well, so what? I'm here for the RPGs. Now if the RPG discussion was offensive, that's another matter because that's my primary purpose in coming here...

It's always been a mystery why some boycotted the RPG forums because they didn't like the talk there. Even more mysterious was some of those doing this were the ones accusing folks of only being here for the politics... :eek:

Quote from: RPGPundit;280722Ohhh-kay. So you are screaming at the top of your lungs that they were banned for what they said, but you don't actually know what they were banned for saying...

Why would I have to know the details of what they said, particularly if a) it is as you say and they're banned based on behavior, b) I'm arguing generalities, and c) I'm arguing about your behavior, not theirs?  

Quote from: RPGPundit;280722..."turning every thread, including utterly unrelated ones, into a soapbox of their personal issues about 4e", which no one is doing right now)....

Have you looked in a mirror?

Quote from: RPGPundit;280722..does not mean that they were banned because of their political speech.

Except you just said that if they'd been talking about RPGs, they wouldn't have been banned ("I'm much more cautious about taking action when people are expressing behaviour related to talk about RPGs. On the other hand, I have already expressed that I'll be much less tolerant when it comes to politics and other off-topic subjects, which are NOT the focus of this site.").

Quote from: RPGPundit;280722The fact that you can't actually explain what speech they were supposedly banned for pretty much means your line of pathetic argument has gone down in flames.

But I have: the speech they were banned for was political in nature.

Seanchai

Quote from: Engine;280840I'm done talking about me, by the way. If anyone else would like to continue to whine about how a community that lasted a decade and produced over half a million posts is a "failure," please, feel free to do so.

But I was calling it a success.

And I was begging you to do it again. Leave. Do. Now.

Quote from: RPGPundit;280725The only way you could claim that is if you suggest "I was banned for talking about politics", as in PERIOD, that it wasn't any particular politics, just talking about politics itself got you banned; and this is demonstrably false given that we have lots of people talking about politics who have not gotten banned.

And we have lots of other folks engaging in the behavior you said was at the root of the banning but aren't banned themselves. For example, you.

Seanchai

Quote from: RPGPundit;280727Pardon me? When do we "shut down" RPG discussion?  We have, on one or two occasions, shut down a thread when it has de-evolved into nothing more than a pissing match (usually after a dozen or more pages);

So...you asked Serious Paul, then answered your own question?

Seanchai

Quote from: gleichman;280844Leave.

Not while there's a single chance I might cause you to feel a even moment's displeasure, Brian. Your unhappiness is like nectar to me; I'm your personal Horror, drinking in the sustenance provided by your irritation. Oh, so sweet, so sweet, like a baby's tears...

Quote from: Engine;280848Not while there's a single chance I might cause you to feel a even moment's displeasure, Brian. Your unhappiness is like nectar to me; I'm your personal Horror, drinking in the sustenance provided by your irritation. Oh, so sweet, so sweet, like a baby's tears...

Nice but you really need more homo-erotic references. ;)

Quote from: CavScout;280724I mean if it was the "behavior" of engaging Jackie occasionally, I am not sure why others who certainly took delight in it, say Spike or Bill, didn't share the same fate.

The difference is that when I do it, its funny.

Quote from: Engine;280848Not while there's a single chance I might cause you to feel a even moment's displeasure, Brian.

You don't displease me at all Engine. In fact, you're living proof of much that I believe in. The natural failure of mankind, etc. You're important, for the very things you represent.

I do pity you. But in the end, it was your choice. Not mine.

Quote from: HinterWelt;280850Nice but you really need more homo-erotic references. ;)

Damn it! I knew I forgot something. I probably should have called him a turdburglar - pardon me, a "TURDBURGLAR" - too, in the spirit of the thread. I am an icon for the failure of all mankind! :D

Quote from: Spike;280852The difference is that when I do it, its funny.

Perhaps, as I do chuckle at some of your stuff, but in the end, the behavior is the same, what we are saying is the only real difference.

Quote from: CavScout;280839Man, look at this... some thread crapping and folks turning a thread into something about them and their own little petty pissing matches. Perhaps some forum bannings are in order. :D

To be fair, gleichman was our interstitial troll between Nox's days and the appearance of you and He-Who-Smites-Turdburglars. Now that you've tamped down a bit, gleichman, who could not pass the Turing test if he tried, is back for attention.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;280861To be fair, gleichman was our interstitial troll between Nox's days and the appearance of you and He-Who-Smites-Turdburglars. Now that you've tamped down a bit, gleichman, who could not pass the Turing test if he tried, is back for attention.

This from a guy who tried to steal credit from another man. I suppose lying and self-inflating importance passes the Turing test however.

Quote from: CavScout;280858Perhaps, as I do chuckle at some of your stuff, but in the end, the behavior is the same, what we are saying is the only real difference.

Ah, but you must remember: The primary... indeed SOLE purpose of the Internet if one must be perfectly honest with its evolution.... is Entertainment.

Thus, Funny uber alles.  Or something.

Quote from: gleichman;280864This from a guy who tried to steal credit from another man. I suppose lying and self-inflating importance passes the Turing test however.

Indeed they would, Gleichbot.

Quote from: droog;280662You've never struggled to what? Is that what the boys are calling it now?

I find forum arguments peculiarly exciting.

Either that or my fingers slipped and I missed the second o.

Hoist by my own pedantic petard, oh the cruel irony.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;280867Indeed they would, Gleichbot.

Yes, a machine would have no need of either.

So even if I am a rather poorly designed AI I do have the advantage of honesty and the attempt to give proper credit. While you lie and steal the work of others.

I leave it to the reader which of the two should be more valued by a rational reader.

Quote from: Ian Absentia;280743Assuming I'm among the camp addressed here, I'll take a moment to respond.

Actually, you weren't, but I do take your point anyway.

Quote from: Balbinus;280873Hoist by my own pedantic petard, oh the cruel irony.

Hi Balbinus, missed you.

You need to keep better company.

Quote from: gleichman;280878Hi Balbinus, missed you.

You need to keep better company.

Cheers.

Pundy, this thread makes me more persuaded you might be best off with (was it your?  I don't recall) the suggestion that Off Topic become something like geek media and politics gets canned.

Why do we need general off topic?  What's wrong with rpgs, electronic and other games, the other main fora and one for other media?

Quote from: gleichman;280874Yes, a machine would have no need of either.

So even if I am a rather poorly designed AI I do have the advantage of honesty and the attempt to give proper credit. While you lie and steal the work of others.

I leave it to the reader which of the two should be more valued by a rational reader.

Oh Gleichbot, it's good to have you back, in all of your autistic glory.

Quote from: gleichman;280878Hi Balbinus, missed you.

You need to keep better company.

It's mutual.

There's good people here, it's not all crap like this thread.

Oh, I holidayed in Libya over New Year, might interest you on several fronts.  Among other things, I met an archaeologist who compared the loss of pride in use of language in mid to late period Rome to our own slipping standards in the West and said he thought we were going the same way they did - he saw it as a sign of decline and decadence.  He was very pro-Western, so it wasn't a happy or triumphalist comment, more resigned.  It struck me at the time as a comparison you might be interested by.

Quote from: One Horse Town;280881Cheers.

Keep Balbinus company. He and some others here are a lonely island adrift in a ocean of sewage.

Quote from: Engine;280831Competitor? Pundit, if a site that closed several years ago and is being archived online is a competitor, you're in bigger trouble than I thought! Please, don't get the impression that these are active websites, or websites that are in any way competing with you today;

Yes, quite, my bad; I'm sorry, but I can't really keep up with all those little pissant forums that pop up every once in a while and make little or no impact before sinking into obscurity.
Subsequent posts after I made mine cleared up that the site was actually a branch-off from some other forum.

RPGPundit

Pundy,

Some of us, and I don't just mean me, are trying to make constructive points here.

Ian for example in his response to me earlier.  My comments about a media forum equally.

Could you maybe address some of that instead of having a pissing match with Engine?

Quote from: Engine;280781I think the problem is that some people feel they've just swapped tyrants; the new one is less tyrannical, and possesses different "politics," but it's the fact of the tyranny itself that bothers some of us.

Tyranny?  Really?  

Quote from: Seanchai;280835But, really, if the RPGsite is going to have a strong RPG - and that's something I agree with, by the way - why have an Off Topic section at all? Why spend time and energy on it, moderating it, creating subforums, etc.?

I agree with Seanchai.  

Maybe a more focussed site with less non-RPG options would be stronger and make for a better community.   Maybe the less we know about each other's picadillos and the more we share about gaming stuff, maybe the better it would be for everyone.

Quote from: Spinachcat;280906Tyranny?  Really?

Relatively speaking, of course! Pundit doesn't, you know, steal our babies to drink their tears or anything. Right? ;)

Quote from: Spinachcat;280906Maybe a more focussed site with less non-RPG options would be stronger and make for a better community.   Maybe the less we know about each other's picadillos and the more we share about gaming stuff, maybe the better it would be for everyone.

Why not try it? Seriously, there's been a lot of talk about this lately, but an experiment would decide the issue reasonably quickly, and non-destructively. Just lock all the non-gaming forums altogether, without removing them or anything permanent of the sort, and give it a shot for a few weeks; see what happens. Why not?

Quote from: Balbinus;280888It's mutual.

There's good people here, it's not all crap like this thread.

Is true, but the signal to noise ratio is much lower for me than it is for you I imagine. This site is heavily leftward, and drifting more so as I've noticed the loss of a number of good posters since I was last here.

Quote from: Balbinus;280888Oh, I holidayed in Libya over New Year, might interest you on several fronts.  Among other things, I met an archaeologist who compared the loss of pride in use of language in mid to late period Rome to our own slipping standards in the West and said he thought we were going the same way they did - he saw it as a sign of decline and decadence.  He was very pro-Western, so it wasn't a happy or triumphalist comment, more resigned.  It struck me at the time as a comparison you might be interested by.

Indeed, it sounds like I would greatly enjoy his company over drinks and a dinner. Birds of a feather at least in that feeling.

I think jeff37923 would say that everyone everywhere everywhen have said the same- it appears to be the point of his sig.

But I don't think he ever stopped to ask where in the world today can he find the culture of the man who made the Assyrian Tablets he quotes, or wonder why he wouldn't be able to find it if he did...

Quote from: gleichman;280910I think jeff37923 would say that everyone everywhere everywhen have said the same- it appears to be the point of his sig.

But I don't think he ever stopped to ask where in the world today can he find the culture of the man who made the Assyrian Tablets he quotes, or wonder why he wouldn't be able to find it if he did...

I believe he would.

Of course, if these things are cyclical, as I tend to think they are, the guys in his sig could be right even though what they say is deeply familiar, and you could be right in saying the same thing even though that guy back then said much the same.  The fact it appears to happen time and again doesn't of itself mean it doesn't happen.

The Romans declined, I'd argue in many ways we're their culture today.  Does any culture last that long no matter how robust or decadent it may be?

The archaeologist also spoke of local picniccers (is that how one spells that?) setting up fires on ancient mosaics with which to boil their tea.  It was a tremendous insight into how generations to come can squander the heritage left them, quite tragic.  We wouldn't do that of course, we'd bulldoze it and build a housing development instead.

Quote from: gleichman;280910I think jeff37923 would say that everyone everywhere everywhen have said the same- it appears to be the point of his sig.

But I don't think he ever stopped to ask where in the world today can he find the culture of the man who made the Assyrian Tablets he quotes, or wonder why he wouldn't be able to find it if he did...

Quote from: BalbinusI believe he would.

You know, instead of using me as a conversation piece to ponder, one or both of you could just ask and get an answer.

(Minor nitpick about this interactive medium of the internet - nobody uses it to actually communicate as much as they use it to try and make a point...)

Quote from: jeff37923;280916You know, instead of using me as a conversation piece to ponder, one or both of you could just ask and get an answer.

That would hardly be as fun though, would it?

Quote from: Balbinus;280913The Romans declined, I'd argue in many ways we're their culture today.  Does any culture last that long no matter how robust or decadent it may be?

Robust cultures don't decline, although they can still be destroyed by even more robust ones. Even then they tend to leave their marks upon the victor.

Decadence however seems to have only one outcome.

Quote from: Balbinus;280919That would hardly be as fun though, would it?

And it would have taken time, besides who knew he was even reading the thread?

So Jeff, what is the point of the sign?

Quote from: Spike;280866Ah, but you must remember: The primary... indeed SOLE purpose of the Internet if one must be perfectly honest with its evolution.... is Entertainment.

Thus, Funny uber alles.  Or something.

You win. :)

Quote from: gleichman;280922Robust cultures don't decline, although they can still be destroyed by even more robust ones. Even then they tend to leave their marks upon the victor.

Decadence however seems to have only one outcome.

If robust cultures don't decline, how do decadent ones come about?  Would you not say the US used to be robust, but has become to a degree decadent?

I still see the US as pretty robust myself, but I thought you were more pessimistic on the point.

Also, early Rome was pretty robust, late Rome pretty decadent.

Quote from: CavScout;280924You win. :)

Naturally.

;)

Quote from: BalbinusThat would hardly be as fun though, would it?

Quote from: gleichman;280923And it would have taken time, besides who knew he was even reading the thread?

I feel so objectified....

:D

Quote from: gleichman;280923So Jeff, what is the point of the sig?

Because I thought it was cool. Nothing more than that.

Can meaning be applied to it? Yes. Any amount of meaning which someone feels needed can be invested.

See, when I originally came across it, I had recently been lectured by a college student only half my age about the How The World Was Going To Hell. I was amused because I had said the same things when I was his age. They hadn't happened. I doubted that the college student's would either. But the belief that we live in An Important Time In History persists still in each generation.

The only constant thing in the universe is change. I came up with that on my own years ago. Can't say if it is original or not.

I was on the USS Nimitz when we pulled in to Hong Kong in 1992. I chatted with a British ex-pat in the Bull and Bear Pub about how the Chinese were, according to her, a decadent culture which was slipping into obscurity. Now in 2009, they are a major world power and international political player. Things change.

I don't wonder about the Assyrians or where that author's culture is, that was 5400 years ago (when it was written). Just having the quote survive is a miracle and should tell the reader that it speaks to something timeless about human nature. I understand that civilizations evolve and cultures disappear to be replaced by others. Sometimes wondering about those types of subjects becomes naval gazing when the perspective of the context within which the original question was asked is lost.

I guess that makes me a bit of a simpleton.

While I'm here, Jeff, your avatar totally kicks ass.

Thought I should say.

Quote from: Balbinus;280926If robust cultures don't decline, how do decadent ones come about?  Would you not say the US used to be robust, but has become to a degree decadent?

Ah, yes of course. There is some point where a culture makes the turn on and of itself. And then it is subject to decline.

Quote from: Balbinus;280926I still see the US as pretty robust myself, but I thought you were more pessimistic on the point.

I am. I think we've made the switch from a robust to a decadent culture.

Or to quote Abraham Lincoln:

"All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years.

At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."

Quote from: jeff37923;280939See, when I originally came across it, I had recently been lectured by a college student only half my age about the How The World Was Going To Hell. I was amused because I had said the same things when I was his age. They hadn't happened. I doubted that the college student's would either. But the belief that we live in An Important Time In History persists still in each generation.

Ah, so basically what I assumed it said.

Now look at all that wasted time and typing spend asking you :)

Quote from: gleichman;280950Ah, so basically what I assumed it said.

Now look at all that wasted time and typing spend asking you :)

It amused me, so it wasn't wasted time at all... ;)

Quote from: jeff37923;280953It amused me, so it wasn't wasted time at all... ;)

Ah. Point.

Quote from: Balbinus;280898Pundy,

Some of us, and I don't just mean me, are trying to make constructive points here.

Ian for example in his response to me earlier.  My comments about a media forum equally.

Could you maybe address some of that instead of having a pissing match with Engine?

Fair enough, which points would you like me to address, specifically?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;280991Fair enough, which points would you like me to address, specifically?

RPGPundit

What's your thought on rather than having an Off Topic in which anything is discussed, having instead Other Media (or Geek Media, or whatever you want to call it) in which we discuss movies, comics, books and that sort of stuff but not things wholly unrelated to our common interests here.

After all, do we really need a forum at all to discuss stuff unrelated to games or other entertainment media?

Quote from: Balbinus;281003What's your thought on rather than having an Off Topic in which anything is discussed, having instead Other Media (or Geek Media, or whatever you want to call it) in which we discuss movies, comics, books and that sort of stuff but not things wholly unrelated to our common interests here.

After all, do we really need a forum at all to discuss stuff unrelated to games or other entertainment media?

We had discussed this, at length, in the Admin section; and essentially one option of the public consultation would have been for this purpose; had people decided that they didn't want to allow political discussion in the forums, they'd have voted that way.

I'm willing to continue allowing political discussion at this time because that seems to be what most people want.
If later it continues to turn out to be nothing but an ongoing problem, well, the other direction will be the future, where the Politics forum would be closed, OT will be changed into "geek news" or something like that, and the only places where political discussion will be allowed on the site would be in my own forums, and only in threads that I start.

But right now, if that might be what you see as the best option, it doesn't seem to be what the majority thinks is the best option.  And I'd rather err on the side of letting people continue to have the opportunity to talk politics here.

RPGPundit

+1 postcount

Damnit! Aos is catching up to me!

What should I do? Ok, don't panic... you can do this...

Don't worry, I only post when I have something important I should be doing.

Just keep posting, just keep posting....

Quote from: Balbinus;280514Oh, I disagree with forum banning Cavscout and Jackalope by the way, I'd rather if we have to do that we just banned the politics subforum.

Yes!

Though I must say, this shit is entertaining to return to after my netless time after moving house.

Quote from: BalbinusBut I'm not persuaded a politics subforum fits the concept of this site, this is not rpg.net, someone suggested renaming off topic something like Geek Related Media and I'd support that and not have any concept of wholly off topic at all.

Yep. As Pundit was defending Off Topic, he said "oh maybe I'll just ban you from it." And as I said then, I'd be happy with that so long as we had something like rpg.net's Other Media. It's good to be able to post up things that aren't actually about rpgs but could inspire them, like movies. I don't care if I miss out on talking about political stuff here, but I wouldn't like to miss out on stuff which can inspire rpg sessions.

Quote from: BalbinusAnd, while I'm on the subject, I fucking hate the indie stuff - even the indie stuff I don't like - getting put into off topic.  It's petty.  Just put it in the rpg section and if it doesn't interest you ignore it.

Is that what's happening? I thought it was just GNS and meta stuff being knocked into there. If there's been a change in the last few weeks while I was away, then yes I agree with Balbinus. My Life With Master or Nicotine Girls may be depressing boring pieces of crap, but so are some game sessions I've been to, and they're still all roleplaying :)

Quote from: BalbinusChrist, how annoying, all this reminds me of rpg.net and posters needing to be protected.  This is not the site for that, peole here should protect themselves.

Huzzah! Damn right.

For my part, if I find a poster's only contribution to an rpg forum is saying stupid, boring and/or offensive things about politics, I just put them on my ignore list. If they say vile political things but still talk about rpgs then I'm interested; if they say entertaining things but not about rpgs I'm bored but I can bear them. But if they're not here to talk about rpgs, and if what they say is generally stupid, boring and/or offensive, zap they're gone from my sight.

Thus Jackalope and CavScout have not bored or offended me for some time. Whereas Spike and Serious Paul and the like continue to bore or offend me in Off Topic, and entertain and inform me in Roleplaying.

Coming back onto the net, I had to reset all my stuff, so I caught a glimpse of the ignored idiots' posts. I'm not missing much, I see. Jackalope's attempts to psychoanalyse people work about as poorly as that always does online.

This is therpgsite. I don't think we should lose sight of that. It's a place for free speech about rpgs. We should not mistake the sauce for the meat, that way rpg.net Tangency Open lies. Which is where Jackalope and CavScout belong, amongst all the other people whose main experience of roleplaying is pretending to be gamers.

I trust that I am more offensive than boring, Jimmy old son...

Quote from: Spike;281097I trust that I am more offensive than boring, Jimmy old son...

Sometimes, Spike.....


However, in Off-topic on a couple of thread discusions in the past few months you have posted some very well thought out and intelligent comments that contributed there greatly.

I don't just mean the politics area.


- Ed C.

Quote from: RPGPundit;281023We had discussed this, at length, in the Admin section; and essentially one option of the public consultation would have been for this purpose; had people decided that they didn't want to allow political discussion in the forums, they'd have voted that way.

I'm willing to continue allowing political discussion at this time because that seems to be what most people want.
If later it continues to turn out to be nothing but an ongoing problem, well, the other direction will be the future, where the Politics forum would be closed, OT will be changed into "geek news" or something like that, and the only places where political discussion will be allowed on the site would be in my own forums, and only in threads that I start.

But right now, if that might be what you see as the best option, it doesn't seem to be what the majority thinks is the best option.  And I'd rather err on the side of letting people continue to have the opportunity to talk politics here.

RPGPundit

Thanks Pundy, that all makes sense to me.  Sometimes one's own view ain't the house view or the majority view, and that's just the way it goes.