Quote from: SettembriniWell, that´s not the issue here. the issue here is that I don´t want to be on a site that is not clearly distancing itself from these games.

So, if it´s not delegated to off topic, I´d have to partake in that distancing.

You have some huge balls, you are bug fuck crazy, but you have huge wonderful balls.

Hey guys, I´m not talking crazy-war-fun here.
This is dead serious.

I see no fun in the recent revelations.

And I predict that every thread will discuss them, if no heed is taken. And I don´t want to hang out at a place where these are discussed.

Un-fun.

This is not about hostility. This is about keeping porn out of the playground.

But if you keep the Thematics, the porn will come with them. Unfun.
And I´m very serious about that.

You might think I´m a bit crazy right now, but you will see what comes around in the future. I see it already happening.

Think about it: Do you really want to discuss rape on a gaming site on a daily basis? I don´t.

I just don´t want to be bothered by that, on an RPG site.

Did I ever tell you about the time I had a male PC raped by a harpy in a game of RQ?

Hmmm...RPGsite.  RPG.

DnD...Check.
Vampire...Check
Amber...Check
Nobilis...Check
Sorceror...comes from the Forge!  It must be evil....no wait. Check
LARP...playing a role...ok then check.
De Profundis....not sure, but we let LARP in after all.

All RPGs.  All of 'em.  

Don't like a thread.  don't read it.

Stumpey,
that´s not what I´m talking about.

As I´m seemingly unable to communicate that, you´ll have to figure it out by watching events unfold.

Quote from: SettembriniStumpey,
that´s not what I´m talking about.

As I´m seemingly unable to communicate that, you´ll have to figure it out by watching events unfold.

It seems a number of posters are not understanding your point. Could you provide links to specific examples on this site or others? Reading the thread, it would seem you have issue with the Poison'd game and there graphic AP. Me, I just ignored it. However, if there are more, please point them out.

Now, to me, it is all RPGs. I have wondered how long it would take to bring out the Us vs. Them censorship. It would seem this falls very easily into Pundits philosophies and has a good chance of going through. For the record, I oopse such measures. If it si so offensive and undesirable to the population, then it will go away on its own. In the end, it is Pundits site so it really does not matter what we think but what his take is.

It should be interesting to watch it unfold.

Bill

Okay, here is the thing:

Vincent Baker, the second most discussed Indie persona, who wirte the flagship game says this:

QuoteMe, Rich, Julia, John, Matt. Some other people watching for some of it, Julie, Ben, Ram. I was the GM. If you weren't at the table with us, then some of it, the best parts? You just don't get to know.

It's okay. There's plenty to tell. Let's start here. If you're delicate of sensibility, please cover your eyes now, okay?

It wasn't that I'd never played a game with rape in it before. Far from it - I've run towns in Dogs in the Vineyard that would curl your hair. It wasn't that I'd never played a game where a player character committed rape onscreen, not that either. Running kill puppies for satan all those times means that I've gotten pretty jaded about what PCs will do. By coincidence, it was the first game I've ever played where one PC raped another onscreen, but it wasn't even that. What it was was, it was the first game I've ever played where one PC raped another onscreen and everyone at the table liked it.

Remember this Perfect post of Ron's? Read the paragraph beginning "Brian provided a classic example of a Line in play..." It was a moment like the one he describes there, only the opposite: James Dobbins' player was watching us all to see if there was a line, and if he was about to cross it, and nope.

"Liked it." Jesus. But it's true. Raping Ebenezer was absolutely the right thing for James Dobbin's player to have James do. We at the table were like, holy fuck, but, fuck yeah. We laughed out loud because of how right it was. Because of what a monster former Captain Pallor had been and how he had visited his monstrousness upon all the characters in the game. The power vacuum he left behind was made of sex, violence, and their conjunction; to fill it, James Dobbins had to fucking FILL it.

Later in the game, Cuntface raped the governor's daughter. (Yes, the character's name was Cuntface. That's all you get to hear about that from me.) He didn't do a single thing that Errol Flynn wouldn't do - he scaled the wall, put his hand over the girl's mouth, fought off the guards with her slung over his shoulder, swing down the rope, took her aboard ship. We watched Cuntface's player tell about it with our mouths in thin lines, not laughing at all. Fuck, no, not fuck yeah. Oh Cuntface, you shouldn't. Shit.

Ebenezer had tried to castrate Cuntface. a) To subjugate him, yes. But also b) out of love, like a big brother's, to prevent this very thing. It's one thing for Ebenezer to rape and be raped. It's not cool when Cuntface does it.

Here's an important Poison'd GMing technique: "do you fight, or do you endure duress?" Enduring duress has the same mechanical benefits as everything else in the game, where fighting eats those benefits up, so the only reason to fight is because your character will. "Do you endure duress?" means that you can buy into even the most horrible experience for your character. It encourages a long view.

After the storm and the madness passed, while Cuntface was scaling the wall and fighting off the guards, Abyssinia, charged up with storm and madness, fucked James Dobbins. Threw open the door and bent him over. She had "a device," we called it. It had figured earlier, and you won't hear that part of the story from me either.

But. "Are you enduring duress?" I said.

"No," James' player said. "It's not that."

So, there you go. One rape no-holds-barred that made us laugh. One attempted rape I didn't tell you about. One romantic Errol Flynn rape where she was too scared to struggle and we didn't laugh at all. And one plain hard fuck.

You can uncover your eyes now.

Were we comfortable with what we did in the game? Yes. Well - we thought it was horrific, tragic, fitting, gruesome and bad. But whoever was talking, no matter how horrific and bad the things they were saying, never once did we wish they'd shut up.

After the game ended we sat and talked for another three hours or more, as friends. As, in fact, very good friends. None of us wanted to get up and go anywhere else. None of us wanted to open the circle to include anyone who hadn't been there. We split up for the night reluctantly and only very late. It was too good to leave behind.

-Vincent

Source.

This is distasteful on too many levels too discuss. And it clearly shows what "story" is for them.

I cannot and will not tolerate this anymore. I will not look away when these individuals claim their games are just for RPG-fun. No, they are from another world. A different world with which I wish not to be bothered with. I do not claim onjective superiority here, I´m just saying: "No, these games have nothing to do and will never have anything to do with what I do for fun."

And I´m not going to sit side by side with these people or there followers, one way or the other.
And this WILL come up, time and time again, as long as these games are discussed.

"Is this against free speech? In some ways, it is. Although I firmly believe that Thematic games are RPGs, I also firmly believe not every RPG must be discussed at every site. We don´t discuss LARPS at theRPGsite after all.
And we don´t discuss Harry Potter simming neither."

Your words.  could be paraphrased as "I don't want to talk about games that don't appeal to me" but thats a bit mean.

Is it to do with the current furore over Poison'd?  Possibly.

But like I said upthread.  Don't like a thread, don't read it.  
Don't want "those threads" inhabiting the board, post your own.

hahahahahaha.

Best laugh I've had all day.

Not what they're talking about...but the fact that the person railing against it, seeking to get that kind of subject banned, is the one who posted it in the thread.

Priceless.

Well,
you really aren´t seeing it. Okay.
From your perspective, your arguments are valid. But you will understand, I fear. This is the big one, this is a grave issue I was not aware of, but now I am.

Stumpey,
are you dumb?
That´s what I´m talking about: You can´t talk about Thematic games anymore without talking about rape. That´s why they should go to off-topic.

And I hate that. I don´t want to talk about it, and even way more important, I don´t want to read other peoples thoughts about it.

EDIT: On a gaming site, that is.

You know what would be awesome?  If we could sage things like on 4chan and it's ilk.  Essentially "sage" allows you to reply to a topic without bumping it to the top of the front page.  Or maybe not, I dunno.
Anyway, Sett I understand what you're saying but I disagree with your prediction.  Chalk one more in the "against" column.

Sett,

 You may be right.

That stuff is disturbing and unsettling on many levels.


- Ed C.

Actually, I think the coverage Baker's game has been and will be getting ensures that, so far from breaking into the mainstream, indie RPGs are in danger of being identified as this niche stuff where people with issues "explore" their, well, issues.

Over and above the yelling pro and con on rpg.net, what you don't see is lots of people quietly shaking their heads and walking away from it all.

I can see why somebody like Luke Crane would want to keep his distance from the online indie scene, dominated as it is by two nutjobs who are moreover nutty in exactly the same way.

But spreading that particular virus isn't harmful at all, au contraire. Let the APs speak for themselves.

Dein Wort in Volkes Ohr.

Hey, Luke Crane, Levi Kornelsen, if that´s the time you feel the need to distance yourself from these...individuals and their budding cults, this is the time!