In reviewing my various forum accounts, I have realized that I really do not use my account here in any meaningful way. I am, I think, simply too old; the discussions are, in the main, quite over my head as I simply do not play any of the games that are under discussion. I do not play D&D, for example, and probably never have over the past forty years; I played something called "Blackmoor" with Dave Arneson. something called "Greyhawk" with Gary Gygax, and something called "Tekumel" with Prof. Barker.

From what I can tell, my play style and gaming is no longer relevant or resonates with modern gamers. My perception is that I am wasting people's time and your bandwidth, so if you could, please close my account.

Thanks!

or...

You could find a newer group, people playing something like D&D 5e and take in some new sights.

The best way to overcome culture shock is to let go of your preconceptions and more importantly your expectations. Take a deep breath and just see what comes. Stop stacking the cards against yourself before you even get started.

If you've been playing this long you invariably have something to offer less experienced players. While their enthusiasm helps you renew your passion for your hobby your knowledge can help them discover things they never imagined.

Just because what you had is gone does not mean what you're getting is somehow "flawed". It's just different. It's your perspective. Let go of your agenda, your need to be right, and just experience the hobby as it exists right now. Be yourself and relax.

For the love of the gods DO NOT be discouraged by what a handful of fanatics on a website of a fringe hobby think or say (or don't say). We are hardly a perfect representation of "the hobby". We're just enthusiasts who like to talk, debate, theorize, create and proselytize with fellow geeks who are likely as weird as we are.

In other words, don't sweat it.

Just my two cents...

We don't as a rule "close" accounts.  Obviously, you are free to just stop coming here; though I'd rather you stuck around.  Even if you're not into newer games, I'm sure there's a lot of people here in particular who'd be very interested in hearing your experiences with older games.

Quote from: trechriron;836239or...

You could find a newer group, people playing something like D&D 5e and take in some new sights.

The best way to overcome culture shock is to let go of your preconceptions and more importantly your expectations. Take a deep breath and just see what comes. Stop stacking the cards against yourself before you even get started.

If you've been playing this long you invariably have something to offer less experienced players. While their enthusiasm helps you renew your passion for your hobby your knowledge can help them discover things they never imagined.

Just because what you had is gone does not mean what you're getting is somehow "flawed". It's just different. It's your perspective. Let go of your agenda, your need to be right, and just experience the hobby as it exists right now. Be yourself and relax.

For the love of the gods DO NOT be discouraged by what a handful of fanatics on a website of a fringe hobby think or say (or don't say). We are hardly a perfect representation of "the hobby". We're just enthusiasts who like to talk, debate, theorize, create and proselytize with fellow geeks who are likely as weird as we are.

In other words, don't sweat it.

Just my two cents...

If I may take your points in order...

1) I'm not a 'gamer'. I've looked at all the various rules sets that have come out over the years, and - with one exception, "Arrows of Indra", they do nothing for me. I've looked in on local D&D, Pathfinder, and similar groups, and the endless rules debates bore me to tears. Sorry.

2) I've been trying that for the past decade. It hasn't worked.

3) Really? I have yet to see that interest, which is why I've dropped off a dozen forums over the past couple of years.

4) I think you have me confused with somebody else. Sorry.

5) I find the state of the hobby in general discouraging; again, sorry. I am finding that I have no interest in the discussions that I see go by; there's just nothing there for me.

Thank you for your comments, though - they really are very good, but just don;t seem to fit my situation...

Quote from: RPGPundit;836260We don't as a rule "close" accounts.  Obviously, you are free to just stop coming here; though I'd rather you stuck around.  Even if you're not into newer games, I'm sure there's a lot of people here in particular who'd be very interested in hearing your experiences with older games.

Thank you for your reply! I have no idea if it costs anything to keep an account on the books - I know so little, sorry.

My experience has been that there is very little - if any - interest in our "loosey-goosey", "hand-wavy" sort of game play that we used to do here in the Twin Cities back in the day; not just here, but on all of the forums that i've sampled. These days, it all seems to be about rules systems and game mechanics, and I just can't seem to get into the plethora of discussions about this kind of thing that I see go by. Aside from a promising discussion about how I run 'Braunsteins' on another forum, there just hasn't been any evidence of the possible interest you mention.

Sorry!

chirine, I'm one of them boring-ass newbs with a mere 23 years of gaming to my name and you taught me (over at RPGnet) how a Braunstein works.

I'd like to see you stick around or, failing that, to take some time off to eventually return. Keep your account, it's going nowhere without you; don't burn your boats.

If you want to give it another try, though — why not a thread on Braunsteins? I'm positive this site's constituency will get a kick out of it.

Reach out to us and we'll keep up.

I found discussions on Tekumel and what you Old Geezer and others did back then or more recently very interesting. I first played in Tekumel with the old EPT rules from TSR back in 1975 or 1976. I didn't get to play for long. The setting was great but the DM was immature and kind of full of himself so at the time it didn't seem like a huge loss. Then I got to play with Sandy Peterson at a con, I think in the late 1990s. Sandy is cool and a great GM and my warrior lost an eye to a monster in the underworld in a very grisly way.  And I don't mean a magic/tech eye either.

I've always found Tekumel fascinating. I own two of the rules sets and I loved the books MAR Barker published. Sadly I lent mine to someone who never returned them. I'm sure there is a Tsolyanu curse for book thieves, but sadly I do not know what it is.

I'm happy to listen to your stories. Of course I'm hardly a modern gamer. Unless you were middle aged or older when you started playing RPGs you can't be all that much older than me. OG only has me beat by a few years.

But what would you like to talk about? What is it that you feel you are missing from other gamers? What do you want that you aren't getting from this or other forums?

Quote from: The Butcher;836276chirine, I'm one of them boring-ass newbs with a mere 23 years of gaming to my name and you taught me (over at RPGnet) how a Braunstein works.

I'd like to see you stick around or, failing that, to take some time off to eventually return. Keep your account, it's going nowhere without you; don't burn your boats.

If you want to give it another try, though — why not a thread on Braunsteins? I'm positive this site's constituency will get a kick out of it.

Reach out to us and we'll keep up.

Thank you for your comments! I am delighted that you had a fun time with the threads on Braunsteins - they are a lot of fun to run and to play in, and I've loved them for years.

My problem is that my time is so very limited, as it my energy and stamina. I check this forum every morning when I get in from work - I'm a 'third-shift vampire' - as part of my 'get home ritual'. My experience is that I have to put this kind of time in in order to keep up with the flow of discussions, and while that keeps me abreast of what's trending, I just don't have the knowledge to understand a lot of the discussions...

For example: What is 'story gaming', and why is it bad?

I'm not a rules / mechanics kind of guy; I think that's largely because back in the day, we didn't have many sets of rules to work with, and tended to simply make it up as we went along. We used our experience knowledge - there were some quite formidable scholars playing at Coffman Union in those days - and just got out there and played the game.

I am not saying, by any means, that current play styles are a Bad Thing; on the contrary, if that's what you like then you should do it. What I am saying is that I don't think I have much to offer to today's gamer, an I have a nagging suspicion that I am wasting people's time.

I dunno. I can try doing a thread on Braunsteins, I suppose...

Quote from: Bren;836281I found discussions on Tekumel and what you Old Geezer and others did back then or more recently very interesting. I first played in Tekumel with the old EPT rules from TSR back in 1975 or 1976. I didn't get to play for long. The setting was great but the DM was immature and kind of full of himself so at the time it didn't seem like a huge loss. Then I got to play with Sandy Peterson at a con, I think in the late 1990s. Sandy is cool and a great GM and my warrior lost an eye to a monster in the underworld in a very grisly way.  And I don't mean a magic/tech eye either.

I've always found Tekumel fascinating. I own two of the rules sets and I loved the books MAR Barker published. Sadly I lent mine to someone who never returned them. I'm sure there is a Tsolyanu curse for book thieves, but sadly I do not know what it is.

I'm happy to listen to your stories. Of course I'm hardly a modern gamer. Unless you were middle aged or older when you started playing RPGs you can't be all that much older than me. OG only has me beat by a few years.

But what would you like to talk about? What is it that you feel you are missing from other gamers? What do you want that you aren't getting from this or other forums?

Thank you for your comments! Loved to hear about your adventure - been there, did that, got the scars...

Phil's creation is indeed a wonder, and I'm very sorry to have discovered that is has the reputation that it seems to have with most gamers these days. We had a lot of fun in Phil's campaign - it was very much "A Princess Of Mars" meets swashbuckler movies meets high fantasy and classic 'scientifiction'. You didn't need a degree in a constructed language, either; we just got out there and tried to survive. And yes, there is a curse for book thieves - I've had to use it a few times, over the years.

Re age, I don't play RPGs. I don't play miniatures, either, although there are something like 5,000 little lead people in the basement. Nor do I play board games; I think of myself as a model builder, first and foremost, who happens to be able to spend some of his time in some amazing world-settings.

And I think that's what may be the crux of the matter; back in the day, we played anything and everything - the division of the hobby into very separate and distinct genres didn't exist for us. We moved across a spectrum of play that included all of what are now the various genres - we played what we needed to play in order to make things happen.

As an example of this, we had one very memorable WWII game where I was playing the Allies on a table in one room, using "Tractics", and at the same time I was fighting an air battle in another room to keep the Luftwaffe from shooting up my tanks using an Avalon-Hill board game. Same thing out at Phil's: we moved from individual adventures using EPT across mass battles using my "Qadardalikoi" miniatures rules to grand strategy using Phil's PRESTAGS sets on his Tekumel maps.

We played the world-settings, historical or fictional, and we used any and every set of rules that we had to make the games happen.

As to what I want to talk about, well, I'm not fond of that approach - I am not the kind of person who likes to preach to people, or tell them what they should be doing in their games. (At best, I can tell you what we used to do, at a certain time and place, and offer tools for you to use in your games if they should like they might be useful to you.) I've had people telling me what I must do in my games for forty-plus years, and I don't want to be one of those people.

What I prefer to do is answer your questions; I work better that way, I've found. This is what I'm not getting from gamers, or from the various forums I've been a part of.

Sorry to go on and on, too...

I'd be stunned if a Braunstein guy wouldn't be welcomed at Dragonsfoot, or Knights & Knaves or the ODD boards. Your expertise is so rare and unusual and certainly your tales of setting immersion over rules mechanics would be greatly appreciated.

Here's something I've noticed about RPG forums - rules are easy to bicker about on the web whereas discussing immersion and "how to" chats about setting design are harder for most people. But those conversations are often the most valuable.

But perhaps a blog is more useful for you than forums. Certainly, if you take the time to discuss your experience with the 3 original settings of the hobby, those conversations deserve some sort of permanence.

Also, this isn't RPG.net or ENworld where giving an opinion is mistaken for preaching, unless you declare you have the One True Way. Here, we really enjoy thread that pose "I do stuff this way and I've found it works for me and my players, what do you think?"

There used to be this hysterical dorknozzle who ragequit the site last year and he'd post threads that posed some interesting ideas, but he always posted "This is the only way to do X and you are stupid and wrong for doing it otherwise." The douchey idiot was kinda fun to poke because he'd do a great victim squeal, but under all the drama, he had some interesting ideas worth considering. Maybe not doing, but certainly worthy of musing.

If you can bring interesting ideas into discussion, accepting that not everyone is going to agree, then you will be a GREAT addition to the site.

Personally, I'd be very interested in your recollections about Dave Arneson and playing in Blackmoor.

And who knew Butcher was such a newb! Only 23 years in RPGs! Ha! Can't believe I've given such a total newb the time of day on this forum without a good hazing!

Quote from: Spinachcat;836345Personally, I'd be very interested in your recollections about Dave Arneson and playing in Blackmoor.

Seconded!

Quote from: Spinachcat;836345And who knew Butcher was such a newb! Only 23 years in RPGs! Ha! Can't believe I've given such a total newb the time of day on this forum without a good hazing!

I am obviously wise beyond my years.

Quote from: The Butcher;836348I am obviously wise beyond my years.

Ugh....such a newb thing to say!!!

Quote from: Spinachcat;836345I'd be stunned if a Braunstein guy wouldn't be welcomed at Dragonsfoot, or Knights & Knaves or the ODD boards. Your expertise is so rare and unusual and certainly your tales of setting immersion over rules mechanics would be greatly appreciated.

Here's something I've noticed about RPG forums - rules are easy to bicker about on the web whereas discussing immersion and "how to" chats about setting design are harder for most people. But those conversations are often the most valuable.

But perhaps a blog is more useful for you than forums. Certainly, if you take the time to discuss your experience with the 3 original settings of the hobby, those conversations deserve some sort of permanence.

Also, this isn't RPG.net or ENworld where giving an opinion is mistaken for preaching, unless you declare you have the One True Way. Here, we really enjoy thread that pose "I do stuff this way and I've found it works for me and my players, what do you think?"

There used to be this hysterical dorknozzle who ragequit the site last year and he'd post threads that posed some interesting ideas, but he always posted "This is the only way to do X and you are stupid and wrong for doing it otherwise." The douchey idiot was kinda fun to poke because he'd do a great victim squeal, but under all the drama, he had some interesting ideas worth considering. Maybe not doing, but certainly worthy of musing.

If you can bring interesting ideas into discussion, accepting that not everyone is going to agree, then you will be a GREAT addition to the site.

Personally, I'd be very interested in your recollections about Dave Arneson and playing in Blackmoor.

And who knew Butcher was such a newb! Only 23 years in RPGs! Ha! Can't believe I've given such a total newb the time of day on this forum without a good hazing!

Be stunned. I found that I am a heretic with both Arnesonians and Gygaxians. I say good things about Gary, so Arnesonians don't like me' because I say good things about Dave, Arnesonians don't like me. It made going to Gary Con very awkward, but Luke has a very good attitude about this and we had a very good weekend together.

My problem is that I say things that challenge the established mythologies of the game hobby, and people get very upset and have issues with it; I am questioning their beliefs, after all. I had a very front row seat for the Great Lawsuit, and it was heartbreaking to watch two very gifted guys tear each other apart.

In the interests of full disclosure, I was the 'Vice President of Tekumel Affairs' at Adventure Games, and worked for Dave for something like six years, as well as gaming with him for over a decade. (I was a founding member of GAMA, as well.) Dave used to send me down to TSR stockholders' meetings to vote his stock shares, which is how I got to know Gary; I'd ask the questions that Brian and Kevin didn't want asked 'on the record'. They'd blow me off, and Gary would say "I think this young man has raised an interesting point, and I like to hear the answer."

I do have a blog, as well as a Photobucket page and a You Tube channel. I have a section of links on the blog to a number of people who I think are worth listening to - and who very often have very different views that I do. I assume that people will disagree with me, which is why I give a place for different voices on my blog.

I'd be happy to talk about Blackmoor and my time there, but you should be aware that quite a few Blackmoor fans get upset when I do; our game play with Dave does not seem to fit within the 'established mythology' that they have come up with.

My personal favorite message from a gamer - "Why aren't you dead yet?"

Quote from: chirine ba kal;836469Be stunned. I found that I am a heretic with both Arnesonians and Gygaxians. I say good things about Gary, so Arnesonians don't like me' because I say good things about Dave, Gygaxonians don't like me. It made going to Gary Con very awkward, but Luke has a very good attitude about this and we had a very good weekend together.

My problem is that I say things that challenge the established mythologies of the game hobby, and people get very upset and have issues with it; I am questioning their beliefs, after all. I had a very front row seat for the Great Lawsuit, and it was heartbreaking to watch two very gifted guys tear each other apart.

In the interests of full disclosure, I was the 'Vice President of Tekumel Affairs' at Adventure Games, and worked for Dave for something like six years, as well as gaming with him for over a decade. (I was a founding member of GAMA, as well.) Dave used to send me down to TSR stockholders' meetings to vote his stock shares, which is how I got to know Gary; I'd ask the questions that Brian and Kevin didn't want asked 'on the record'. They'd blow me off, and Gary would say "I think this young man has raised an interesting point, and I like to hear the answer."

I do have a blog, as well as a Photobucket page and a You Tube channel. I have a section of links on the blog to a number of people who I think are worth listening to - and who very often have very different views that I do. I assume that people will disagree with me, which is why I give a place for different voices on my blog.

I'd be happy to talk about Blackmoor and my time there, but you should be aware that quite a few Blackmoor fans get upset when I do; our game play with Dave does not seem to fit within the 'established mythology' that they have come up with.

My personal favorite message from a gamer - "Why aren't you dead yet?"

Because of the parts in bold, you're now officially my hero-of-the-month:)!

People get invested in their ideas of how things have happened almost as much as crooks during a court hearing. Except they don't need to be dishonest guys (and gals), of course.
Being invested, however, makes seeing the reality of it all very frustrating. It can also prevent you from making better decisions at the table, if my experience is something to go by.
Not that I even know the difference between a Gygaxian and an Arnesonian, but I think I might check that with Google.

Anyway, I just hope you had a good answer for that message, preferably a one-liner;)!

Quote from: AsenRG;836597Because of the parts in bold, you're now officially my hero-of-the-month:)!

People get invested in their ideas of how things have happened almost as much as crooks during a court hearing. Except they don't need to be dishonest guys (and gals), of course.
Being invested, however, makes seeing the reality of it all very frustrating. It can also prevent you from making better decisions at the table, if my experience is something to go by.
Not that I even know the difference between a Gygaxian and an Arnesonian, but I think I might check that with Google.

Anyway, I just hope you had a good answer for that message, preferably a one-liner;)!

Agreed!!!

As for the one-liner: I did, actually; I sent them a photo of the huge scar on the back of my head from the surgery I had to do something about the brain bleed I had in 2012. I have been, technically, dead since the night of September 15th of that year. (The photo is up on my blog, too.)

In no particular order:

Arnesonians believe that Dave Arneson invented role-playing, and that Gary Gygax stole it from him;
Gygaxians believe that Gary Gygax invented role-playing, and Dave Arneson stole it from him;
Barkerites believe that Prof. M. A. R. Barker invented role-playing, and that Arneson and Gygax stole it from him;
Weselyians (not the Methodist kind) believe that all of the above are full of it, and just get on with playing the game - named after Dave Wesely, a friend of mine and the creator of the 'Braunstein' style of game.

I am a Weselyian.