Quote from: RPGPunditBecause it is an organized intent to SPAM this site, organized from a secret section of their site. That's pretty fucking different than one guy posting something annoying here.

It's your call to make, but in my opinion you would be better served scorching the shit out of them by pointing this asshattery out in public and letting it be properly ridiculed.  By intervening in this way you are accomplishing two things:

1.  You have just given yourself and the other moderators more work by now having to use your secret Motive Detector™ on every fucking thread having to do with Story games or involving certain posters.  You'll then open the floor to everyone here who has a grudge to bear (and there are many) to lobby for threads that they *personally do not like* to be arbitrarily moved.  This potential disruption of discussion is considerable.

2.  You will have given these assmonkeys some sort of legitimacy and feeling of persecution that they can wear on their sleeves.

On the other hand you can just skip all the work and heartache and just ridicule the fuckers.  It's your call, man...

Quote from: RPGPunditYou're welcome to judge these threads all you like, in Off-topic where these threads belong.

I guess I have more faith in this community's ability to see this shit for what it is and judge accordingly than you do, it seems...


TGA

Just to be clear, I would have no problem posting threads about my products in an Ads/Promo forum or in Off Topic. I often feel I should not be putting threads up about Shaolin Squirrel dice in the RPG forum.

So, should we move/direct designers posting about their own products to another forum?

Just wondering.

Bill

Edit: Also, my Alt-History threads, should I be posting those in Off Topic? They aren't about RPGing really. More about history. Thanks.

I vote this thread be moved to Tangency.

Quote from: RPGPunditIt has been brought to my attention that there is a thread on Storygames (the SECRET part of Storygames, which can't be accessed publically) talking all about strategies to get your storygames more attention by negative threads on forums like this one.

Nope, it's public. It's the tongue-in-cheek thread that Ben posted above. Apparently some humorless jackass took it to be a call to arms.

Quote from: RPGPunditThat isn't what I heard, Tony. And since you guys make Storygames' important threads invisible to people who aren't in the club, that means I have to assume the worst.

How about you ask this secret ninja informant what the thread was? Then you can compare.

Quote from: Ben LehmanFactually, it's in public.

Facts don't work here.

Quote from: BenAFAIK, Story Games has only ever turned down one application for membership, so it's not like it's hard to read those three categories.

Two, actually. There was the indie designer who puts Satanic curses on people who don't review his game well, too.

Quote from: The Good AssyrianListen, if this is really their strategy it is amazingly impolite and *will* bite them in the ass. If this is really just them pulling shit then just point it out and let us as a community judge them and their motives.

Absolutely. What you see in Ben's thread is the one in question.

Quote from: RPGPunditStorygamers can't have their cake and eat it too: if they want a secret little place to bitch out Regular Roleplayers, they don't get to be free of suspicion later.

Plz PM me with all of your Freemason secrets. Email is fine, too. Handshakes to secret history, I want to see it all. KThxBye.

Quote from: KoltarStaring artificial flamewars to hype a product is just underhanded and stupid.

It absolutely is. It's as underhanded and stupid as the acusations being levelled. Which is sad, because someone "informed" Pundy about a tongue-in-cheek open thread, Pundy starts spinning the Lie Machine without verifying, and even won't go back to ask his source. "I heard it once, nope, no need to check my facts or ask my source again" is the realm of TV-style punditr... never mind.

-Andy

Guys. Fuck this. It was me that highlighted this to pundit. I was fed up with seeing this shit on the RPG forum. I reported a thread on RPGnet to the mods there too. That followed the story games thread to a tee. Heh Ben, perhaps you want to head over there?

I don't apologise. This shit has been collecting on the board for a week. New posters who mention swine all the time in their opening posts? Ooh, mentioned in the SG thread as a key word for this site. All the q&a threads? Marketing opportunities. Simple. Read TonyLBs response to the SG thread and then wonder why he was so keen to have his own q&a here.

There is no idealogical war as pundit would have it. It's a war about fucking money and who buys what. Just fucking pony up and admit it.

Anyone who has read my posts here recently might have put two and two together already anyhow. But boy, has this place changed. Roleplaying threads dissapear within hours and all this shit about the war and story and all that crap attract the most replies?

I write games myself. For other people. So that is a difference, i guess. But really people, be honest in your dealings, please.

Bill. Keep on with the alt. history threads! Interesting stuff.

If you wanna blame someone, blame me, for this. I don't back down from it though. Honesty is the best policy. Full stop.

I dunno whether to stay or go to be honest. I found this place to be a breath of fresh air when i first came. If things are to improve, people need to stop mentioning the 'war'. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. You say it and they will come. The fact that they've said things before should be fucking ignored. It's gaming and we should talk about that.

Peace out. :cool:

IMO, Ben's thread wasn't a secret plan to organize spamification.

I take it mainly as a way to shore up the morale of storygame fans & designers who feel bad about having their games slammed, by looking at the bright side. "No such thing as bad publicity."

Unfortunately it comes off as a taunt, and it also could encourage some of the less mature storygamers to deliberately "keep the flames burning" instead of accepting the criticism as a window into the conceptual foundation of the critic. (E.g., by insisting that all RPGs are about producing story when the critic says they dislike Game X because it's about producing story.)

One-Horse....


 Stay.
Hang around here ....please.


- Ed C.

Quote from: James J SkachPundit,

If you want to move them to Off-Topic - hey man, it's your forum - Rock the Fuck On.

I'm saddened, a bit, because now I'll be violating Kyle's and J Arcane's posting rulez about posting in the RPG versus Off Topic...but I'll live.

I'm just using it as a golden opportunity, to, in public, get some answers and put people on the record in a more transparent way.  You can't do it at the Forge - the discussion's over there.  You can't do it at RPGNet, to try to accomplish anything in that sea of humanity is difficult at best - not to mention the moderation would be horrible.

I can't, actually, think of a better place to shine the light of reason and understanding on this entire conflict than here at TheRPGSite.  Not because I want to necessarily call anyone out or extend the conflict, but because, perhaps, we can get down to some root issues/differences, help people understand how this or that might be insulting, and perhaps move beyond the conflict.

Except I've seen nothing in either of the current threads that has any indication of "moving beyond the conflict".

Instead what I've seen is a lot of Luke hyping Burning Wheel, and Tony hyping Capes, just like they apparently said they would in a Storygames thread.

In terms of the actual "conflict", Luke wants to pretend that GM fiat is the source of all evil and anyone who doesn't like the Forge is only doing so because they're an ignoramus; while Tony has stated that the War is all just a "misunderstanding" because somehow Ron Edwards saying "Most RPG gamers are miserable because of Regular RPGs" was just a big misunderstanding.

Neither of them are owning up to anything.

So these threads won't solve anything. Its just giving them a soapbox to sell their theories and their products, with the "rules" of your thread being one where they can do this without people being able to directly criticize them. Fuck that.

RPGPundit

hehehe...it's almost as if someone in the Story Games crowd said something, and it was completely misunderstood.  That sounds vaguely...I don't know...familiar....


BTW, Pundy - Here's another thread that should be moved, yes?

Quote from: RPGPunditExcept I've seen nothing in either of the current threads that has any indication of "moving beyond the conflict".

Instead what I've seen is a lot of Luke hyping Burning Wheel, and Tony hyping Capes, just like they apparently said they would in a Storygames thread.

In terms of the actual "conflict", Luke wants to pretend that GM fiat is the source of all evil and anyone who doesn't like the Forge is only doing so because they're an ignoramus; while Tony has stated that the War is all just a "misunderstanding" because somehow Ron Edwards saying "Most RPG gamers are miserable because of Regular RPGs" was just a big misunderstanding.

Neither of them are owning up to anything.

So these threads won't solve anything. Its just giving them a soapbox to sell their theories and their products, with the "rules" of your thread being one where they can do this without people being able to directly criticize them. Fuck that.

RPGPundit

wow?  really?  I mean, I agree that I think Luke has now officially gone on record here and saying GM Fiat is inherently bad and corrosive to the hobby - and said without any more proof than his instincts and anecdotes and some, what I would consider, really...umm..well..interesting...theories on players and their goals and the health of the industry. All of which amounts to - Luke doesn't like GM Fiat because...he doesn't.  Which is great to get out in the open.

Tony - push Capes?  I mean, he's spent far more time answering my questions on Theory/The Theory crowd than  he has on Capes.

And to be honest, I've learned a lot more than in the "pistols" thread yo had with him.

I'd rather get them on record as best I can, and then crank on them in other threads that you can source back to their own words...when deserved...

Quote from: HinterWeltJust to be clear, I would have no problem posting threads about my products in an Ads/Promo forum or in Off Topic. I often feel I should not be putting threads up about Shaolin Squirrel dice in the RPG forum.

So, should we move/direct designers posting about their own products to another forum?

Just wondering.

Bill

Edit: Also, my Alt-History threads, should I be posting those in Off Topic? They aren't about RPGing really. More about history. Thanks.

For the record, Bill, none of your posts were part of the problem.

If a game designer comes on and openly talks about his product; I don't have a problem with that, as long as its not underhanded and so long as he's not flooding the forum.

Its up to you to use your better judgement as to whether a thread belongs on the main forum, or in the Theory forum, or in off-topic.

The Alt-history threads technically aren't talking directly about RPGs, but I was assuming they were for an RPG-related purpose.  If you want, we'll move them to off-topic, but so far no one has complained about it.  They've been pretty interested.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditFor the record, Bill, none of your posts were part of the problem.

If a game designer comes on and openly talks about his product; I don't have a problem with that, as long as its not underhanded and so long as he's not flooding the forum.

Its up to you to use your better judgement as to whether a thread belongs on the main forum, or in the Theory forum, or in off-topic.

The Alt-history threads technically aren't talking directly about RPGs, but I was assuming they were for an RPG-related purpose.  If you want, we'll move them to off-topic, but so far no one has complained about it.  They've been pretty interested.

RPGPundit

Mostly I just do not want to be part of the problem. I have no problem where they are but just wanted some clarification. You have provided some and I will try and keep it in mind when posting in the future. I tend to be in RPG forum more than the others and it leads to border line topics (like the squirrel dice) going in there as opposed to OT.

Thanks,
Bill

The "Vibe" thread and the thread that Temple started are going to stay on the main forum, for now, assuming that the original posters don't ask for it to be moved.

I'll be carefully watching any new threads that come out: If I think they're a product of the Storygamers following their plans for attention, they will be moved to.

I'm sick of this. I'd rather lose every fucking storygamer from this board than lose a single guy like One Horse Town, who's worth 500 of those fuckers.
I really hope he stays, because if not the Swine are getting exactly what they want: they're driving away the regular gamers and subverting this place into yet another one of theirs.

So you fuckers want to play dirty? FINE. Don't worry too much about my "secret-motive detector"; it works fine and quick.  It doesn't take a genius to figure out who's posting about what, and with which motives.

And will there be a double-standard? If there will be, that double standard will show favour to Regular Roleplayers, who are here with good intentions.

RPGPundit

Quote from: HinterWeltMostly I just do not want to be part of the problem. I have no problem where they are but just wanted some clarification. You have provided some and I will try and keep it in mind when posting in the future. I tend to be in RPG forum more than the others and it leads to border line topics (like the squirrel dice) going in there as opposed to OT.

Thanks,
Bill

You know that you and I don't always agree, but I cannot think of a time when I've had any serious problem with anything you've written or where you put it; or reason to question your motives for doing so.
I know you've voiced these concerns before, but trust me that this is not about you, there's no problem with you, and if you just carry on the way you're doing things right now there won't be any problem with you on this site.  You're doing fine and are a valued poster to theRPGsite.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditSo you fuckers want to play dirty? FINE. Don't worry too much about my "secret-motive detector"; it works fine and quick.  It doesn't take a genius to figure out who's posting about what, and with which motives.

As always, this is your prerogative as the owner of the site.  I just hope that all of this additional moderation will not lead to a slow whittling of topics that are acceptable, and will not encourage the Internet Warriors amongst us (notably the "I was banned from RPG.net and all I got was this stupid t-shirt" crowd) to constantly lobby to restrict anything or anyone that they don't approve of.

Good luck with that.  Seriously.  No snark intended.  I genuinely enjoy this site and I am worried that the direction that you are going is not sustainable, and will fundamentally change the nature of the site in the long run.  I hope that you prove me wrong.


TGA