For the last three days I've taken nothing but insult and abuse from the people who's main purpose for being here is to insult and abuse me, and yet people seem to be nodding their heads in apathy when these people make attacks that hit to the core of what this site is about.

I mean, what's the point really? Does anyone even care about free speech on this forum? Do they really want to preserve it? Because every time someone tells me "you're just like the RPG.net mods", or "you're just like Ron Edwards", and fucking NO ONE jumps in and says "no, in fact he isn't", its like they're telling me "I can't tell the difference between what you've accomplished here and what things are like over there".  So then really, why am I even bothering?

If no one really wants to defend the way things are run here, maybe I should start running them the way the rpg.net mods or Ron Edwards really do things?

RPGPundit

It's free speech that allows people to say that stuff. It's a cheap shot that is readily available because of free speech. It's a fact of the internet that if you stick your head above the parapet, folk are going to take pot-shots.

No, you're not like an RPGnet mod. The ability to say those things to you (as long as it doesn't disrupt the running of the board) proves that.

The Ron Edwards jibe is a long-running one and again something that was bound to come up. It is again wrong as long as discussion of anything RPG related is allowed somewhere on the site. If you outlawed talk of forge or storygames, even in off-topic, then you'd pretty much be mirror-Ron.

I disagreed with your decision to move the Forgie Mechanics thread to off-topic. But since some links have started appearing in it, maybe it was for the best, given past events.

Quote from: One Horse Town;289190I disagreed with your decision to move the Forgie Mechanics thread to off-topic. But since some links have started appearing in it, maybe it was for the best, given past events.

Well I linked to John Kim's site because Bill wanted to know about a specific Forge...well ok a RE (Sorceror) game mechanic. Honestly, it was not meant to be disruptive to this site and I thought it perfectly acceptable since we were discussing Frogey games. (Why does this feel like a tribunal ?)

Regards,
David R

I am constantly inundated with so much free speech that I tend to ignore it.

Quote from: David R;289201Well I linked to John Kim's site because Bill wanted to know about a specific Forge...well ok a RE (Sorceror) game mechanic. Honestly, it was not meant to be disruptive to this site and I thought it perfectly acceptable since we were discussing Frogey games. (Why does this feel like a tribunal ?)

Regards,
David R

It is acceptable to post links, now, on that thread now that it's in the Off Topic section.  it just proves though that allowing Forgespeak in the main forum would lead to the shills like Kubasik showing up and people posting links and generally trying to promote a philosophy that is utterly toxic to RPGs.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;289209It is acceptable to post links, now, on that thread now that it's in the Off Topic section.  it just proves though that allowing Forgespeak in the main forum would lead to the shills like Kubasik showing up and people posting links and generally trying to promote a philosophy that is utterly toxic to RPGs.

Kubasik is no shill and some of your philosophies are the ones which are toxic to RPGs.

And would you stop engaging with that troll Cavscout except for threads in this and your forum ?

Regards,
David R

Quote from: brettmb;289206I am constantly inundated with so much free speech that I tend to ignore it.

Unfortunately, I think that's the case with many here. They take it for granted, and they fail to defend it or to stop those that are abusing it or trying to see it taken away. And they have become unappreciative.

So why bother? The only answer is for my own sake. Sadly, however, that means that others are really abrogating all of their sense of responsibility, and it leaves me feeling very much alone in taking a moral stand.

RPGPundit

Quote from: David R;289215And would you stop engaging with that troll Cavscout except for threads in this and your forum ?

Regards,
David R

No. He doesn't get to have the last word.
If people don't like that, and are bothered by the constant conflict, then they should join me in destroying him.

Of course, if I banned him for being the troll everyone knows he is, the Anti-Pundit Squad would come along claiming I don't believe in free speech and that I'm just like the RPG.net mods and Ron Edwards and Hitler and that I eat babies for breakfast, and no one would say a fucking word against them.

RPGPundit

Free speech was not being attacked here. It was you that they were attacking. I think most of us know that you can take care of yourself.

If someone is disrupting the site and free speech is being abused, it's time for a banning. That is how you stop abuse.

No, if they attack me by claiming that I'm not allowing free speech, and that I'm exactly like those other guys, then they're attacking the concept of free speech on this site.

And if people don't stand up and notice that, then they're saying that they really don't notice the difference or don't care about the difference between this place's freedom of speech and other places' repression.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;289217No. He doesn't get to have the last word.
If people don't like that, and are bothered by the constant conflict, then they should join me in destroying him.

Of course, if I banned him for being the troll everyone knows he is, the Anti-Pundit Squad would come along claiming I don't believe in free speech and that I'm just like the RPG.net mods and Ron Edwards and Hitler and that I eat babies for breakfast, and no one would say a fucking word against them.

OHT said this on that other thread

QuoteDo you hear that noise, CavScout? That's the silence of the board. You've even alienated the couple of people who used to give you the benifit of the doubt. You did that because you couldn't help yourself. You have to argue, you have to try to get your gotcha moment. Now you're relegated to having pops at pundit and me, 'cos no one else is interested. That's why i said that Pundit is an excellent shit-magnet. Guys like you always end up battling him at every step, because you've got nothing else left and he offends your alpha male complex.

So, you only have two things left - wave your dong about in a futile manner or actually engage in what the board is for. Trouble is, you're right. If you wanted to do that now, you've burnt so many bridges, folk just wouldn't give a shit.

You're on your own.

[/I]

And I think that's all there is to say. It doesn't really matter if he gets the last word. Most if not everyone here is aware of the fact that he has a hardon for you because you banned him for being a troll on the politics forum.

As for free speech. Free speech here means calling someone a prick and not being banned. That's all. Of course nobody thinks you're some sort of ModThug .(Wait ModThug....this sounds like a cool idea for a retopunk game....nevermind) The only people that implied this so far has been kyle and me. And I did it because I think your policy of banishing Forge games to OT, is fucked up.

So chill the fuck out. Nobody here thinks free speech is threatened. It only ever comes up because of your attitude towards certain games and gamers.

Regards,
David R

Pal, when I have compared you with Ron Edwards it's been about behaviours you denounce on him and you show all the fucking time. It has nothing to do with free speech or modding style. If you don't want to be compared with him, don't do some things like he did. Easy.

And I don't think free speech is a sacred obligation of a privately run website: you're perfectly well within your rights on banning discussion on any game just because this is your website. And it's OK: you're not a fascist for that. In WW boards you don't discuss D&D and no one goes around crying 'fascists!'

Chill out man.

But the point is I haven't. I haven't banned discussion on any game. I've just made the rule that those discussions have to happen on the right places for this forum. And for that, I get accused of being the same as someone who shuts down speech, or those who have banned thousands.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;289246But the point is I haven't. I haven't banned discussion on any game. I've just made the rule that those discussions have to happen on the right places for this forum. And for that, I get accused of being the same as someone who shuts down speech, or those who have banned thousands.

RPGPundit

Yup, you have a point there. I find that measure artificial and unnecessary, but this is YOUR place and I respect that.

My point is, I don't really care if you allow more or less discussion of this or that game around here, or if you decide to move them to this or the other forum. I dispute with you claims that I find false, and when possible, try to bring factual data to the discussion. If tomorrow you decide that Sorcerer is taboo, I will happily comply with it and won't discuss Sorcerer here, because this is your place with your rules.

Hope I made myself clear on that. You're free to keep thinking that I have a personal cause against you, as you wish. But then I would probably never show any agreement with you and, in fact, i agree with you in many things. So, there.

Regarding Cavscout, I feel that trying to beat him in that last word contest diminishes you, but is your choice. You can do better than that, though.

I think you're all taking this much too seriously.

It is an RPG forum, after all.