Quote from: The Game Guy;289626They started it?

What are we?  5 years old?  No one started anything, there is no "war" or any of that crap.  

The fuck there isn't.  I personally watched the Forge and it's ilk do fucking everything in their power to pollute the discourse on RPGnet, it's one of the reasons why, in all my years there, I had a mere handful of posts in the actual RPG forum.  I did all my RPG discussion on Tangency of all places.  

QuoteThey are gamers, just like us.

I think quite a few of them would take great offense to such an accusation.

QuoteThey are playing the games they like and we are playing the games we like.  It's possiable that we can coexisit in the same hobby and play different games.

They aren't interested in coexisting, they've made that abundantly clear by their behavior.

QuoteOk, then if they are irrelevant then just ignore them.

Irrelevant to the hobbby at large.  Quite relevant sadly to discussions of viral marketing invasions and interforum trolling.

QuoteThey aren't effecting your hobby (nor mine) and you aren't effecting theirs.

They are affecting the places I like to talk about my hobby, however.

QuoteSome people like them and talk about them (like over on rpg.net and other places) and some people don't.

And there's plenty of other places on the internet where the people who do like them are free to talk about them all day long.  Whole forums devoted to them in fact, forums in which discussion of the kinds of games I like are treated with the same hostility theirs are here.  Why can't they be happy with those places instead of invading here?

Furthermore, no one, not one person, in the entire history of this board, has been banned simply for discussing a Forge game.  Not one.  It's simply been decided that in order to stem the tide of the potential disruption that tends to occur when the Forge arrives in force on a general or traditional RPG forum, by designating discussion of said games to a different forum than the rest.  

EN World keeps a seperate forum for non-D&D games, because non-D&D games aren't what they're about.  RPGnet keeps a seperate forum for D&D games because they're mostly about Exalted and whatever game their friends wrote this week.  Why can't we have a seperate forum for stuff that our site is not about, hmm?

J. Arcane wins.

Quote from: The Game Guy;289538How is this different then what you do saying games from The Forge or Storygames not rpgs?   Do you think if you keep saying it over and over it will become true?

They are role playing games, no matter how often you say different.

Do I like them?   Hell no.   Someone in my group suggested playing Burning Wheel and I made it clear I had no interest in playing any games from The Forge.

But I understand, whether I like them or not they are rpgs.

That's not true. Some Forgie games are RPGs, but not all Forgie games are RPGs. You've got to examine them one by one. Burning Wheel is an RPG, but Universalis is clearly not an RPG. Primetime Adventures? I find it hard to call it an RPG. The Mountain Witch? Can you honestly call it an RPG?

Quote from: J Arcane;289553They started it.  And besides, is the loss of a tiny and irrelevant fringe really some great threat to roleplaying as we know it?  I can't say as I'd even notice if the entirety of the Forge and their games up and disappeared over night, nor would any of the groups I've played with in the last 10-15 years, and I don't think it would be remotely controversial to suggest that neither would the body of the roleplaying community at large.

Besides, there's plenty of sites already where they are free to spout whatever lunatic theories they desire, to shill games about the Holocaust played with Jenga tiles, or whatever stupid shit they're up to this week, so I don't see it as some great and terrible loss.

When you combine that with the fact that these people cannot refrain from expressing their utter and complete loathing for everything about regular RPGs and their players, you have an influence that is ultimately more disruptive than harmful.

If J Arcane is deluded, then I'm deluded too, because this is what I've seen, the same disdain for traditional gaming. My only comfort is that although they make a lot of noise in internet discussions, in real life they're completely irrelevant.

Quote from: J Arcane;289634The fuck there isn't.  I personally watched the Forge and it's ilk do fucking everything in their power to pollute the discourse on RPGnet, it's one of the reasons why, in all my years there, I had a mere handful of posts in the actual RPG forum.  I did all my RPG discussion on Tangency of all places.  

Ok, well if there is a war it only exists in your head and The Pundit's head.  But it exists nowhere in reality, because I only seem to hear about it here.   No one else is talking about it and no one else seems to know it exists.

Probably because people are busy playing games and fighting pointless wars that wont be won or lost.  You are just spinning your wheels.  Just play the games you enjoy and ignore the people who you dont want to here from

Quote from: J Arcane;289634I think quite a few of them would take great offense to such an accusation.

I hear people here say that but I have yet to see any sign from the people over at The Forge or Storygames say they are anything but gamers.

But then I dont hang out or read their forums, so I could have missed something.

Quote from: J Arcane;289634They aren't interested in coexisting, they've made that abundantly clear by their behavior.

I think you are reading too deeply into things and seeing things that arent there.

Quote from: J Arcane;289634Irrelevant to the hobbby at large.  Quite relevant sadly to discussions of viral marketing invasions and interforum trolling.

Your ignore list button is your friend

Quote from: J Arcane;289634They are affecting the places I like to talk about my hobby, however.

Again, your ingnore button is your freind.  If people ignore them then they dont get attention and they go away.

Quote from: J Arcane;289634And there's plenty of other places on the internet where the people who do like them are free to talk about them all day long.  Whole forums devoted to them in fact, forums in which discussion of the kinds of games I like are treated with the same hostility theirs are here.  Why can't they be happy with those places instead of invading here?

Because if this forum is going to be about true free speech which is what The RPG Pundit claims, then they should be able to post on here.  You then have the choice of not reading the threads or putting the people on ignore.  If enough people dont read the threads or ignore people then they will go away.

Otherewise, this forum isnt about true free speech.

Quote from: J Arcane;289634EN World keeps a seperate forum for non-D&D games, because non-D&D games aren't what they're about.  RPGnet keeps a seperate forum for D&D games because they're mostly about Exalted and whatever game their friends wrote this week.  Why can't we have a seperate forum for stuff that our site is not about, hmm?

Right, this is the same forum where people complained about rpg.net putting D&D into a seperate forum, yet its ok to do it with Forge and Story Games.

Sort of Hypocritical if you ask me

Quote from: Claudius;289671If J Arcane is deluded, then I'm deluded too, because this is what I've seen, the same disdain for traditional gaming. My only comfort is that although they make a lot of noise in internet discussions, in real life they're completely irrelevant.

If they are irrelevant then ignore them and move on.  Don't talk about them, don't post about them.

GetThe RPG Pundit to stop talking about them.  They less they are talked about the less people know about them and the are then minimized even more.

Quote from: The Game Guy;289687If they are irrelevant then ignore them and move on.  Don't talk about them, don't post about them.

GetThe RPG Pundit to stop talking about them.  They less they are talked about the less people know about them and the are then minimized even more.

Maybe you haven't noticed - but it really doesn't work that way or hasn't. Some people see a pattern of Forge apologists and promoters registering on forums ...then they flood a gaming forum with threads about forgie-style games and their take on things.

This is a part of that "war" that Pundit is talking about.

He'll probably hate this analogy - but if it were an Ayn Rand novel it would be like one of Ellsworth Toohey's whispering campaigns against or for something.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;289691Maybe you haven't noticed - but it really doesn't work that way or hasn't. Some people see a pattern of Forge apologists and promoters registering on forums ...then they flood a gaming forum with threads about forgie-style games and their take on things.

Well I don't see anything from The Forge or Storygames people and I haven't for awhile.  

And to make what I said before work, people have to actually ignore the thread.   Every time there was a thread by The Forge people or Storygames people everyone started jumping in and going after them.  That isn't ignoring them

Quote from: Koltar;289691This is a part of that Imaginary"war" that Pundit is talking about.

Just needed to correct that statement a bit

QuoteOk, well if there is a war it only exists in your head and The Pundit's head. But it exists nowhere in reality, because I only seem to hear about it here. No one else is talking about it and no one else seems to know it exists.

"I didn't see it happen, I wasn't there, so obviously it didn't happen and you're all delusional for believing it did."

Gotcha.  Thanks for making clear what an utterly useless endeavour it is to try and have a rational conversation with you.  

Must be hell for you reading the newspapers.

Quote from: J Arcane;289743"I didn't see it happen, I wasn't there, so obviously it didn't happen and you're all delusional for believing it did."

Gotcha.  Thanks for making clear what an utterly useless endeavour it is to try and have a rational conversation with you.  

Must be hell for you reading the newspapers.

No, that's not it at all.

The only time I have heard about this so-called war (so called because it doesn't exist) was out of The Pundit's mouth.  He tries to repeat that there is this "war" going on over and over in hopes that if he says the lie enough times it is true.  

The people over on Storygames aren’t talking about it; the people on rpg.net aren't talking about it.

Not because it’s some secret war, but because it comes from The Pundit's imagination.   He is the only one fighting this imaginary war.  Everyone else is off playing games and having fun.

The RPG Pundit is trying in vain to make himself important to the hobby.  I don't know if this is because of his low self esteem problem or what, but he makes a lot of shit up.   This war is one of those things he came up with to make himself look important and act as if he is "fighting for the common gamer".

The problem is he is speaking for himself.   There are plenty of gamers who are happy to play traditional games as well as games from Storygames.  I am not one of them, but there are plenty of people out there.

I am sure if there were more people who were even aware of his imaginary war they would even say that he doesn't speak for them.

The reason I don't hear about this "war" going on isn't because it is supersecret or just not being talked about, is because The Pundit is the one who came up with it and he is the only one who knows about it.

No matter how many false claims he makes that because of his war The Forge is less effective then they were or that he has had some effect on Storygames, none of it is true.

Again, I have nothing against The Pundit personally, but when he says something that isn't true (and it happens alot) I am going to say something.

"Does anyone here even CARE about Free Speech?"

That's not why I post here.  If I wanted that I'd post on my own blog, hang around on 4chan or something similar.

I'd rather the site focused more on being a high-quality RPG site and not a RPG site + Free Speechxorz site.  The Free Speechxorz encourages too many ass-hats and derails too many topics.

Not everyone uses the same word to describe them, but the events are still the same.  You're playing semantics.

Go talk to some people who were on RPGnet after the Forge closed it's theory forum how well those days went.  Go dig back in the records here for some of the forum invasions from the Forge and Storygames of the past.  We even had one case where a thread was found on Storygames all about how to invade sites like these to push their games.

You can stick your fucking head in the sand all you want, but the bottom line is, this shit happens, it's happened before, and it will happen again, unless steps are taken to curb the effect.  I've given the Forge and it's ilk the benefit of the doubt many a time, and every time they've betrayed my good faith by acting like a pack of virulent assholes.

So frankly, you can take your slander, and your naivete, and your ignorance, and stick it straight up your ass.  I'm not here on this board to listen to some little ingrate interloper impugn my experiences and my honesty, out of some misplaced sense of feel-good liberalism.

Quote from: Claudius;289671My only comfort is that although they make a lot of noise in internet discussions, in real life they're completely irrelevant.

Hey! I got a group to start playing Burning Wheel and they've never looked back.

J.Arcane: Thank you, for defending the truth.

RPGPundit

Quote from: J Arcane;289794Not everyone uses the same word to describe them, but the events are still the same.  You're playing semantics.

That would be so if I had ever read anyone even discussing going to sites (be it this one or other ones) in any fashion, worded in such a way that no matter how you read it that it was clear they were out to wreck the hobby or change how sites discuss games.   None of them.

Quote from: J Arcane;289794Go talk to some people who were on RPGnet after the Forge closed it's theory forum how well those days went.  Go dig back in the records here for some of the forum invasions from the Forge and Storygames of the past.  We even had one case where a thread was found on Storygames all about how to invade sites like these to push their games.

They may have gone to other sites to discuss their games to make people aware of their existance.  But how is that different then The Pundit or any other author going to other sites and posting about their own game?

I want an answer, not an insult.  I am trying to have a serious conversation.

Quote from: J Arcane;289794You can stick your fucking head in the sand all you want, but the bottom line is, this shit happens, it's happened before, and it will happen again, unless steps are taken to curb the effect.  I've given the Forge and it's ilk the benefit of the doubt many a time, and every time they've betrayed my good faith by acting like a pack of virulent assholes.

Then you put them on your ignore list, as well as everyone else, the thread vanishes off the front page nad it is forgotten.

Quote from: J Arcane;289794So frankly, you can take your slander, and your naivete, and your ignorance, and stick it straight up your ass.

Who have I slandered?  No one.