Quote from: RPGPundit;289401The problem isn't that. The problem is that if the Forgies are allowed to bring up theory in the main forum, they will bring it up ALL THE TIME; EVERYWHERE.  It is their standard operating procedure:

1. Fill the forum with users brought in from Storygames, Forget, etc.
2. turn the subject of every thread to include mention of either Forge Games or GNS theory. Recommend Dogs in the Vinyard for everything, talk about how certain problems can be solved by determining what the "agenda" is, etc etc.
3. Talk about GNS theory as if everyone was already accepting it to be proven, true, correct and useful.
4. At this point, the site is basically another extension of the Forge agenda.
5. However, if resistance is encountered, engage in conflicts at every turn, trying to make the other side seem like the disruptive ones as often as possible. Claim that the Forge doesn't look down on regular gamers, doesn't think anyone is brain damaged, fake offense and beg for moderator protection against "attacks" of people who are "hating for no reason". Call for an "emotionally safe environment".
6. Propose and promote your own people for moderator roles.

RPGPundit

I do think that GNS theory has the same intellectual value as the used diapers of my daughter. But even so, I wouldn't forbid its discussion in the roleplaying section. It's related to roleplaying, even if it's a bunch of crap.

And if anybody engaged in typical forgiewanker behavior here, well, you know... :forge:

Quote from: James J Skach;289412Otherwise, I find the personal nature breaks down barriers.

I do, too. I've found I'm less likely to both give and receive nasty personal attacks with something resembling my real name (I just omit my surname so that anyone googling up the more-significant-than-forum-blather writing won't get a zillion forum links in response, but it doesn't take much brainpower to find it out through various links).

But not everyone feels that way, and I respect that. Some prefer more privacy.

There's also the privacy of those close to you. It's the reason I don't mention a lot about my private life - not because I care about my own, but because it ties into those of others; if my friends and loved ones want to spill stuff online, they can do it themselves.

On the other hand, if you use a pseudonym, you'll cop more shit. It's a tradeoff, you can have more privacy but less respect, or less privacy and more respect.

I don't think this site is a "trainwreck", that's bollocks.

Pundit's taking a day or so off, I hope he cools down and gets some perspective. Those who enjoy attacking him all across unrelated threads and on his blog - ease up for a day or two, come on. Talk rpgs instead, terrible imposition on you, I know

Quote from: RPGPundit;289246But the point is I haven't. I haven't banned discussion on any game. I've just made the rule that those discussions have to happen on the right places for this forum. And for that, I get accused of being the same as someone who shuts down speech, or those who have banned thousands.

RPGPundit

Of course, it's an exaggeration.You're not the same like them. But moving discussions of RPGs such as Burning Wheel to Off Topic is a dirty tactic, it's a way of manipulation. I am very disappointed by that policy. It's great that in this site I'm allowed to tell you this (in rpg.net I would think twice before talking back to a mod, after everything I've seen there): I think you're wrong.

Please reconsider that policy.

Claudius, he's taking some time off. Let him have that time off.

Wouldn't you need time off if you were dealing with us?

If you've time on your hands to post on stuff that doesn't really matter, head over to the Design subforum!

Good grief!

Ned

Quote from: RPGPundit;289409hoping that if they repeat things like "the RPGpundit is no different than an RPGnet mod" often enough, it'll become true

RPGPundit

How is this different then what you do saying games from The Forge or Storygames not rpgs?   Do you think if you keep saying it over and over it will become true?

They are role playing games, no matter how often you say different.

Do I like them?   Hell no.   Someone in my group suggested playing Burning Wheel and I made it clear I had no interest in playing any games from The Forge.

But I understand, whether I like them or not they are rpgs.

....because by Pundit's definition - they really aren't Role Playing Games.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;289546....because by Pundit's definition - they really aren't Role Playing Games.


- Ed C.

Right, but that's in his mind.  However for the majority of the gamers out there they do recognize them as rpgs.

The problem I have with the Pundit's view (and I really don't have anything against him as a person) is his viewpoint is very elitist and does more to splinter a hobby that is in such a shape where this kind of thing is really not needed.

Now luckily most gamers don't go on message forums so what we really think doesn't matter and doesn't influance the hobby as a whole.

The Pundit is more then welcome to have his opinions and I welcome free speech, I will just disagree with them because he doesn't speak to how the majority of gamers feel, but more to how he and a minority of gamers feel.

I don't see why he has to divide gamers into specific groups.  I don't understand why he can't be happy playing what he enjoys and let others play what they enjoy.  We are all in the same hobby and people playing games I dislike doesn't in any way effect the game my group plays once a week.

QuoteThe problem I have with the Pundit's view (and I really don't have anything against him as a person) is his viewpoint is very elitist and does more to splinter a hobby that is in such a shape where this kind of thing is really not needed.

They started it.  And besides, is the loss of a tiny and irrelevant fringe really some great threat to roleplaying as we know it?  I can't say as I'd even notice if the entirety of the Forge and their games up and disappeared over night, nor would any of the groups I've played with in the last 10-15 years, and I don't think it would be remotely controversial to suggest that neither would the body of the roleplaying community at large.

Besides, there's plenty of sites already where they are free to spout whatever lunatic theories they desire, to shill games about the Holocaust played with Jenga tiles, or whatever stupid shit they're up to this week, so I don't see it as some great and terrible loss.

When you combine that with the fact that these people cannot refrain from expressing their utter and complete loathing for everything about regular RPGs and their players, you have an influence that is ultimately more disruptive than harmful.

Most any site on the internet is going to have certain groups of people that are just going to be persona non grata by default, the only difference is most other places would simply ban them outright the second their allegiances became known.  Shit, this site took fucking months to finally sanction such gems as KKK members and child molestors, I've yet to see anyone get outright banned just for talking about the Forge.  Not even blatant viral marketeers like we've had in the past.

Quote from: RPGPundit;289182Does anyone even care about free speech on this forum?

Do you? Because the longer I'm here, the less I believe your rhetoric about RPGsite being a place where folks don't get banned or only get banned for disruptive behavior.

Quote from: RPGPundit;289182Do they really want to preserve it? Because every time someone tells me "you're just like the RPG.net mods", or "you're just like Ron Edwards", and fucking NO ONE jumps in and says "no, in fact he isn't", its like they're telling me "I can't tell the difference between what you've accomplished here and what things are like over there".

Maybe that's because you are like them.

Quote from: RPGPundit;289182If no one really wants to defend the way things are run here, maybe I should start running them the way the rpg.net mods or Ron Edwards really do things?

You are already are - it's just not as blatant.

Seanchai

Quote from: shalvayez;289280Now, the asslickers over at RPGnet look over here, and LAUGH, because they see what a trainwreck this place can be, due to douchenozzles like CavScout.

It's only a trainwreck if you choose not to ignore people and their comments.

Seanchai

Quote from: Consonant Dude;289278This forum is too much about you, what you like, your wars and your attempts to "win". You said recently that it is possible to have culinary ideologies, political ideologies and yes, gaming ideologies. I agree. It's also possible to go over the fucking top about trivial matters such as Veal Tenderloin or Exalted. It's gotten to a point where everything is about you and what you like. And the extreme and futile lines that you draw between different gaming tastes.

I'm not sure this hasn't been about Pundy turning it up to 11 to get hits, generate discussion, etc..

Quote from: Consonant Dude;289278When people say you are acting like a RPG.net mod, they mean you are molding this place based on your own biased views, just like they do.

Personally, I say he's like a TBP mod because his rules are as flexible as May Lou Retton. When is speech a behavior versus speech? Only Pundy can tell us...

Also, people make the comparison because Pundy invites it. He, himself, compares this site and it's moderation to TBP and it's moderation. It's only natural that others follow suit...

Quote from: Consonant Dude;289278The appeal of RPGsite, from my perspective, was that you could talk about all roleplaying game matters and call people on their bullshit. There were no untouchable darling games here, no group-think and cliques. No need to resort to long bouts of subtle passive-aggressive attacks and hold grudges forever.

That's what I like about the RPGsite as well.

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;289623................because his rules are as flexible as May Lou Retton. When is speech a behavior versus speech? Only Pundy can tell us...

Could you please spell her name correctly if you're going to use her for a pop culture reference ?

 Its MARY Lou Retton.

I had a teenage crush on her back when she won at that summer olympics.

Besides, Cincinnati has a Gymnestics training center that since then has trained many Olympic champions. This town takes gymnastics very seriously.

- Ed C.

Quote from: J Arcane;289553They started it.

They started it?

What are we?  5 years old?  No one started anything, there is no "war" or any of that crap.  They are gamers, just like us.  They are playing the games they like and we are playing the games we like.  It's possiable that we can coexisit in the same hobby and play different games.

Quote from: J Arcane;289553And besides, is the loss of a tiny and irrelevant fringe really some great threat to roleplaying as we know it?

Ok, then if they are irrelevant then just ignore them.  They aren't effecting your hobby (nor mine) and you aren't effecting theirs.  Some people like them and talk about them (like over on rpg.net and other places) and some people don't.

Quote from: RPGPundit;289182Does anyone even care about free speech on this forum? Do they really want to preserve it? Because every time someone tells me "you're just like the RPG.net mods", or "you're just like Ron Edwards", and fucking NO ONE jumps in and says "no, in fact he isn't", its like they're telling me "I can't tell the difference between what you've accomplished here and what things are like over there".  

Perhaps this wouldn't happen if you didn't behave in ways the rpg.net moderators do.  or worse.

I have seen you a couple of times (one even recently) argue with someone and then make the comment "Your arguement is so stupid I should ban you".

Not only is that abuse of "power" but that is actually worse then what rpg.net moderators do.

I am not saying you are like the rpg.net moderators or like Ron Edwards, I am simply pointing out what I see.