Quote from: David R;289201Well I linked to John Kim's site because Bill wanted to know about a specific Forge...well ok a RE (Sorceror) game mechanic. Honestly, it was not meant to be disruptive to this site and I thought it perfectly acceptable since we were discussing Frogey games. (Why does this feel like a tribunal ?)

Regards,
David R

For the record, the links in the thread are:
At my request a character sheet for BW by Droog: PDF

A completed character for Dindenver's DitV campaign
http://casualgamerscorner.pbwiki.com/NatesChar
AP Reports for said campaign
http://casualgamerscorner.pbwiki.com/Aug14Logs
http://casualgamerscorner.pbwiki.com/Aug28Logs

A link for explanation purposes to a Sorcerer char sheet by ChristopherKubasik
Here's a link

A definitional reference to JHKim's site by DavidR at my bequest
http://www.darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/...betical/B.html

Now, none of these has sale information, links to the stores where you can buy them and for the most part are clear discussions of mechanics or AP of the games in question. No use of GNS terms or theory was discussed. Let's revisit that NO discussion of Theory took place.

I would also note, the only person with sale information in that thread is me (in my sig).

Quote from: RPGPundit;289246I haven't banned discussion on any game. I've just made the rule that those discussions have to happen on the right places for this forum. And for that, I get accused of being the same as someone who shuts down speech, or those who have banned thousands.

Discussing Burning Wheel in the same place we hear about Koltar being kidnapped in a school bus full of nymphos or where a poll is running between MacDonald's and Burger King may sound appropriate for you. It is not to me and most of the people in this community.

This forum is too much about you, what you like, your wars and your attempts to "win". You said recently that it is possible to have culinary ideologies, political ideologies and yes, gaming ideologies. I agree. It's also possible to go over the fucking top about trivial matters such as Veal Tenderloin or Exalted. It's gotten to a point where everything is about you and what you like. And the extreme and futile lines that you draw between different gaming tastes.

When people say you are acting like a RPG.net mod, they mean you are molding this place based on your own biased views, just like they do. There is a difference between having restrictive rules that will lead to suspensions and funnelling discussion to a dumpster but the net effect is the same: it is about administration molding a forum and a community around THEIR beliefs.

The appeal of RPGsite, from my perspective, was that you could talk about all roleplaying game matters and call people on their bullshit. There were no untouchable darling games here, no group-think and cliques. No need to resort to long bouts of subtle passive-aggressive attacks and hold grudges forever.

I tried to ignore the fact you like to claim the forum success is due to you. I tried to ignore your dedicated forum and your attempts at imposing on us that you are a special citizen. I tried to ignore your thread-crapping. I tried to ignore the very excessive and hateful language you use against certain people and groups. To ignore you fanning the flames of stupid "wars". And most of all, I tried to ignore your awful attitude, lack of objectivity and absolute refusal to ever self-reflect, consider other viewpoints or (horror) consider you might be wrong once in a while.

But this latest stunt of pretending Burning Wheel is not a roleplaying game and dumping it in an off-topic cesspool? I give up.

I'm still gonna stick around to read and maybe help but I can't wait to find another home.

Also, don't worry, I'm not going to pursue you in every thread. This is a one shot. In fact, I'd like to thank you for the insight you provide sometimes, for many of your game ideas, for start many threads inciting roleplaying thoughts and for (initially) moderating such a forum with a relative consistency.

Unfortunately, it has taken a turn I don't like.

Freedom of speech is nice. What about respect? Freedom of ideas? Constructive discussions? Community spirit? Those are things I would like to see promoted more around here. I'm not saying they are non-existent. But other concerns are overshadowing the good stuff.

Quote from: RPGPundit;289246But the point is I haven't. I haven't banned discussion on any game. I've just made the rule that those discussions have to happen on the right places for this forum. And for that, I get accused of being the same as someone who shuts down speech, or those who have banned thousands.
RPGPundit

That is because your detractors know that the comparisons get under your skin and use that against you.

Pundit, you're doing fine, and haven't been a hypocrite in any sense of the word. Though, I would like to point out, from personal experience of running a BBS....
 
RPGsite is about discussing RPGS.  Getting as many people involved in discussion as possible, and attracting new users would be positive points, yes?
 
 Now, the asslickers over at RPGnet look over here, and LAUGH, because they see what a trainwreck this place can be, due to douchenozzles like CavScout.
 
 And I also know from personal experience, that, when kicked off of a board, and when one takes the initiative to create a new, improved board, minus the fascism, one would rather see one's creation become a THREAT, and not a LAUGHINGSTOCK, to the other board.
 
This being said, "freedom of speech" should not pertain to intentional disruption.  The intentional disruption only serves to drive away DECENT users, who are tired of the animosity perpetuated by certain users.
 
 Boot the asshole off, so the rest of us can discuss RPGs in relative peace.

Quote from: RPGPundit;289224No, if they attack me by claiming that I'm not allowing free speech, and that I'm exactly like those other guys, then they're attacking the concept of free speech on this site.

And if people don't stand up and notice that, then they're saying that they really don't notice the difference or don't care about the difference between this place's freedom of speech and other places' repression.

RPGPundit

Pundit, claiming you're not alowing free speech in this forum is like making a case that the Pope's a Muslim.

Wtf?

I mean, whoever made that claim either needs a major reality check or is just spouting nonsense to get under your skin.

The RPGsite is a forum where you say what the damn well you feel like saying, and you don't need to be too nice about it either.

I've been insulted on this site, I've also insulted others in ways that would get me booted from other forums I used to use in the past. Some people are more set intheir ways, others more open-minded. At the end of the day you learn what others think and agree to disagree...with the odd offensve word thrown around.

Like in every community there appear to be some little pet hatreds around, but so what? Game preferences aside, there is no one here I wouldn't welcome at my gaming table. I'm glad I found this place, not only for the gaming talk but for everything else.

So yeah, thanks for keeping theRPGsite the way it is and ignore the ocasional douchebag. As we say in my country "the cries of pigs reach not the heavens."

Pundy, dude, of course that shit bothers the fuck out of me.  It gets fucking irritating, because every fucking thread just gets fucking derailed by the latest batch of little warriors who just have to fucking attack your every goddamn word, no matter what you say.  

I'm sick of fucking assholes like that, because it destroys thread after thread after thread, by turning it into nothing but another fucking prick-waving contest.

And yeah, this is coming from someone who used to be one of thoes assholes, but you know what?  I got the fuck over it, what the fuck is you people's excuse?  Hmm?

If you hate the cocksucker so much, then fucking leave, instead of poisoning the fucking well every chance you get, just because he dared say a word.

Otherwise, get the fuck over yourselves already, and lay off the lame fucking thread stalking.

Quote from: J Arcane;289292If you hate the cocksucker so much, then fucking leave, instead of poisoning the fucking well every chance you get, just because he dared say a word.

Good advice.

Pundy pity parties are always the best.

Quote from: RPGPundit;289182.................
I mean, what's the point really? Does anyone even care about free speech on this forum? Do they really want to preserve it? Because every time someone tells me "you're just like the RPG.net mods", .................

RPGPundit

I care.

From what I've seen you've been pretty fair.
 Every once in awhile you seem to let people push your buttons a little. But hey, that happens to me too )and plenty others).


- Ed C.

Quote from: brettmb;289222Free speech was not being attacked here. It was you that they were attacking.

Brett's right.

Sorry, Pundit, you're running into the problem advocates of free speech always face. Sometimes people will say things you don't like. They may even - my god! - criticise you.

Quit being a pussy. You create a super-tough-and-manly persona, working hard to stay anonymous - well, Internet Tough Guys who like to stay anonymous cop shit. You dish it out, you're going to have to eat some, too. That's just the way it is. You complaining that people attack you would be like me complaining people write long posts. Man up.

Quote from: RPGPunditif they attack me by claiming that I'm not allowing free speech

As far as I recall, nobody said that. Again you display the inability to contend with what people have actually said, instead of some bullshit you made up.

What they said was that you were ghettoising some rpgs solely on the basis of your own judgment that they weren't rpgs, ignoring mainstream opinion. That is, you were turning the place into your own personal wankfest.

Thus the comparisons with Uncle Ronny. He doesn't think D&D4e is an rpg, either. Guess what? I don't think Amber's an rpg, cos it doesn't use dice. But really if everyone who plays it thinks it's an rpg, well I'll go with the flow instead of crying like a little girl. I wouldn't try to get all Amber discussions moved to Off Topic in the hopes they'd die while at the same time claiming I was being perfectly objective and reasonable.

If moving discussions of games you think aren't rpgs but everyone else does to the Off Topic forum is not designed to shut them down, hoping they'll perish in Off Topic obscurity, then why do it?

Don't you recall your complaints when rpg.net put d20 in its own little ghetto, your claiming that it was their attempt to stifle discussion of d20? At least they didn't put discussion of d20 in Tangency Open and claim it wasn't even an rpg.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;289348Thus the comparisons with Uncle Ronny. He doesn't think D&D4e is an rpg, either.

Actually, I'm pretty sure he does. In fact, if you were to take that question across to the Forge I think you'd get a puzzled reaction.

The trouble with Poobutt's definitions, and what actually makes them inferior to the Forge definitions, is that RE's definitions imply from the beginning a broad church, while Poobutt's attempt to solidify the form. It seems a religious sort of urge: the harking back to the prophets and the Golden Age, the laying down of doctrine, the demonising of opponents.

So Poobutt's RPG Catholicism is rigid and unwilling to bend. Now that's irony!

Quote from: droog;289365Actually, I'm pretty sure he does. In fact, if you were to take that question across to the Forge I think you'd get a puzzled reaction.

Really? I'm surprised. I guess he's never said it explicitly, just with all that brain damage and child abuse and only-rpgs-with-stories-are-good nonsense I drew the natural conclusion.

But I'm definitely happy to be wrong in this case!

Quote from: droogIt seems a religious sort of urge: the harking back to the prophets and the Golden Age, the laying down of doctrine, the demonising of opponents.[/quoteSo Pundit's approach includes fewer gamers than even that fucked-up, self-contradictory, muddled, bullshit GNS.

Sad, sad.

I'm still reeling from surprise at being called a Forger. Poor Pundit, so caught up in his Swine War he thinks everyone's his enemy. Words of wisdom from M:-

"When you can't tell your friends from your enemies, it's time to go."

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;289348Brett's right.

Sorry, Pundit, you're running into the problem advocates of free speech always face. Sometimes people will say things you don't like. They may even - my god! - criticise you.

This thread isn't about me. Its about how much others value free speech here.

QuoteQuit being a pussy. You create a super-tough-and-manly persona, working hard to stay anonymous - well, Internet Tough Guys who like to stay anonymous cop shit. You dish it out, you're going to have to eat some, too. That's just the way it is. You complaining that people attack you would be like me complaining people write long posts. Man up.

That wasn't the complaint.
The complaint was that no one seemed too interested in clarifying the fact that there is a VAST GULF of difference between me and an rpg.net mod or Ron Edwards in terms of how this site is run and how free speech is tolerated, which leads me to wonder if anyone even cares about that here.

QuoteAs far as I recall, nobody said that.

Then you haven't been reading much have you?
You haven't read the forge-thread where they have explicitly stated that I'm exactly like an RPG.net mod and that there's no difference between this place and the forge in terms of how we treat people or topics we don't like.
And that's patently untrue.

QuoteWhat they said was that you were ghettoising some rpgs solely on the basis of your own judgment that they weren't rpgs, ignoring mainstream opinion. That is, you were turning the place into your own personal wankfest.

Yes, that was your attack on me.
David R's compared me to Grand Moff Tarkin, implying that I was tyranically ruling this site with fear and an iron grip.
Peteramthor said I'm "RPGnet moderator material".

Now do you want to admit that you were wrong, or just shut the fuck up? Its wide open.

QuoteThus the comparisons with Uncle Ronny. He doesn't think D&D4e is an rpg, either.

Actually, he's pissing his pants with joy over 4e, considering it a triumph of Gamist play.

QuoteGuess what? I don't think Amber's an rpg, cos it doesn't use dice.

Using or not using dice doesn't change the fundamental nature of the game.
Deciding that "STORY" is more important than emulation or any other factor, or allowing the players to create the universe and forbidding the GM from saying no to them, all of those things do.

QuoteIf moving discussions of games you think aren't rpgs but everyone else does to the Off Topic forum is not designed to shut them down, hoping they'll perish in Off Topic obscurity, then why do it?

Many other people do not consider those RPGs, including more than a few more-honest Forgies. Hell, the authors of Dread even openly say so in their book!
They know that what they're doing has about as much to do (or less) as what RPGs had to do with Wargames.

And yes, I absolutely would prefer that all Forge-related discussion fade in obscurity. No question about it.
I'd certainly prefer that to them taking over this site.

QuoteDon't you recall your complaints when rpg.net put d20 in its own little ghetto, your claiming that it was their attempt to stifle discussion of d20? At least they didn't put discussion of d20 in Tangency Open and claim it wasn't even an rpg.

The difference would be that D20 is the most popular RPG system in the entire world, while Storygames are not RPGs, even according to the admittance of some of its strongest adherents. Others attempt to claim they're RPGs in order to parasitically feed off our hobby; but you can't honestly compare isolating a questionable game in off-topic to ghettoizing the most popular RPG in the world.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;289370So Pundit's approach includes fewer gamers than even that fucked-up, self-contradictory, muddled, bullshit GNS.

And with that blatant lie you could not possibly believe, you have apparently officially chosen to graduate into a full-blown Pundit-hater. Why I have no idea, but fine.

Yes, of course that must be true, I mean the Landmarks only include pretty well every game system described as an RPG from the early 70s until the late 90s, and 90+% of those that have come after that.
Obviously I'm the height of prejudiced exclusion.

Quote

"When you can't tell your friends from your enemies, it's time to go."

And of course, you self-absorbed piece of garbage, I imagine you would be more than happy to volunteer to be the guy who takes over?
We are few, and know each other well, Jimbob. You've wanted to determine "policy" on this site since you first came here with your tail between your legs after being kicked out of rpg.net. And it irks you that most of the people here would prefer my style of moderation to your own.

Again, perhaps if its my time to go, I should hand over this site to the Forgers and see how much you like their style of moderation?  See how long you survive here, and how long this site survives?

Let me assure you one thing: YOU will never be the one who gets to be in charge here. Ever.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;289371That wasn't the complaint.
The complaint was that no one seemed too interested in clarifying the fact that there is a VAST GULF of difference between me and an rpg.net mod or Ron Edwards in terms of how this site is run and how free speech is tolerated, which leads me to wonder if anyone even cares about that here.

Personally Pundit there is a huge difference between you, the rpg.net mods and Ron Edwards.  When you bring up the subject of free speech and its toleration,  you often run into individuals who chose the extreme approach to get a rise out of you.  Instead of a diplomatic approach they go right for the nuclear option.  I do not post enough nor am I controversial, but I do appreciate the atmosphere this site offers.  

As far as coming to your defense, I figured your well established to handle any crowd that appears in your forum. You have to look at with a business attitude.  Let your customers rant their opinions all over the board, besides many on here like the sound of their own voices.  Remember free speech does have reasonable limits, and you are the one who draws the line here.  I would just roll my eyes, bitch slap a few around and smoke my pipe.