So, this is the way skills will go. Clash, as usual I am looking at you to spank me for being bad, bad game designer.

What am I missing? What is needed? What works? What doesn't? General comments appreciated.

Thanks,
Bill

QuoteSkills
Skills are split into Childhood, Mature and Professional categories. This reflects skills learned in childhood, those learned as adults and ones that are learned as part of a profession.
Skills range from 1 to 6 in terms of ranks. Ranks are the expertise that a character has with that skill. If a character has 0 ranks in a skill it means they are unskilled.

Skill Resolution
Skill resolution is done by rolling 3d6 plus the skill + the appropriate stat against a difficulty set by the game master. This target number is how difficult the task being attempted will be to accomplish.

Example: a player rolls 3d6 and adds his Locksmith skill (3) rank and his Mind  stat (6) to the result. His target, determined by the GM, is set at 22 since it is a complex lock. He rolls a 3 + 4 + 6 (rolls again and adds with a 3) for a total of 16 + 3 + 6 = 25 > 22. Success!

The stat will depend on what is being attempted. For instance, if one uses their Running skill with Mind to figure out the best way to avoid the Infected. Then, to implement, Running would be used with Body to actually run through the predetermined path. The GM may assign a higher difficulty if the conditions warrant it or if the proper planning was not done.

Cooperative Skill Use
If the GM decides that it would be appropriate and possible, a group of characters can cooperate to accomplish a skill. To do this, one character is designated as the person performing the skill (Primary) and the rest are supporting the skill attempt (Secondary). Those supporting the skill test roll there skill with the difficulty designated by the GM. If they are successful they may add their Skill Rank to the total of the Primary.

Example: Dirk is trying to set a bomb to blow up a bridge and cut off the infected. He is set as the Primary. Cherry will be loading up and setting detonators for the blocks of C-4. She rolls her skill Craft (Explosives) + Mind (4 +8 = 12) with a Difficulty of 18. She rolls a 10 + 12 = 22 for a success. Dirk then adds 4 to his roll.

Protracted Skill Use
A skill that might take more than a few rounds is considered protracted. This means the skill must be completed in periodic checks. So, something like repairing a car might take 4 hours. The GM and player agree on the time for the action and then it is evenly divided into 4 checks representing 25%, 50%, 75% and 100% completion. At each point a skill check must be made. If the player wishes, they may take add one to the Difficulty and increase the amount accomplished by 5%. This may not exceed the Skill Rank of the skill being attempted. Alternatively, the player may drop the percentage completed by 5% and lower the difficulty by 1.

Example: Cherry is repairing the Eldorado in order to escape the wave of infected due later that night. The GM and player determine that the repairs should take 4 hours. This is devided into 1 hour increments. Cherry has a rank 5 in Craft (Engine Repair) and knows they only have a few hours. To rush the job, she lected to add 25% to each increment and make only two checks, one at 50% and the other at 100%. This will get the job done in 2 hours if she is successful. The GM and Player determine this is a moderate Difficulty and set the Difficulty at 20. Since she is rushing, the difficulty is raised by 5. Her bonus is 5 for her Skill and 8 for her Stat for a total of 13. She rolls a 14 on 3d6 and gets a total of 27, succeeding. On her second try she rolls a 10 for a total of 23. She tries again, extending the repairs by another hour, and rolls a 15 for a 28 and success. Dirk and Cherry make it out of the city before the Infected arrive...or do they?

Skill List
The following are skills and their default stat used for standard checks.
Skills      
Skill   Stat   Specified?
Athletics   Body   Yes
Craft   Mind   Yes
Deception   Spirit   No
Dodge   Body   No
Driving   Mind   No
Education   Mind   Yes
First Aid   Spirit   No
Hunting   Mind   No
Intimidation   Spirit   No
Mele Combat   Body   No
Piloting   Body   Yes
Ranged Combat   Body   No
Stealth (Hide)   Mind   No
Stealth (Movement)   Body   No
Unarmed Combat   Body   No

Skill Specifications
Some of the above skills must be specified, or further defined. This means that something like Athletics needs to have the type of Athletics chosen, like Running. This is denoted by writing the skill name followed by the specification in paranthesis like so: Athletics (Running).
The following are some suggested specializations skills. The following is a suggested list but is not exhaustive.

Specifications   
Skill   Specifications
Athletics   
Football, Baseball, Tennis, Cricket, Running, Soccer, LaCrosse
Craft   Locksmithing, Metal Working, Knitting, Engine Repair, Explosives, Masonry

Education
Computers, History, Biology, Geology, Architecture, Military Strategies, Chemistry, Mechanical Engineering

Piloting
Tank, Prop Airplane, Jet Airplane, Sail Boat, Motor Boat, Large Water Craft, Construction Equipment, Helicopter, Motorcycle, Train

Quote from: HinterWelt;271392So, this is the way skills will go. Clash, as usual I am looking at you to spank me for being bad, bad game designer.

What am I missing? What is needed? What works? What doesn't? General comments appreciated.

Thanks,
Bill

I'll give it my best shot!

QuoteSkills
Skills are split into Childhood, Mature and Professional categories. This reflects skills learned in childhood, those learned as adults and ones that are learned as part of a profession.
Skills range from 1 to 6 in terms of ranks. Ranks are the expertise that a character has with that skill. If a character has 0 ranks in a skill it means they are unskilled.

Looking at the list of skills, I don't see any differentiation as to being Childhood, Mature, or Professional. What is the in-game difference? Does this differentiation merely donote the pool of skills they were taken from - i.e. Athletics (Baseball) would be available as a childhood skill and maybe mature, but not professional? If so, that wouldn't be a categorization of skill, but a categorization of skill pool.

QuoteSkill Resolution
Skill resolution is done by rolling 3d6 plus the skill + the appropriate stat against a difficulty set by the game master. This target number is how difficult the task being attempted will be to accomplish.

Example: a player rolls 3d6 and adds his Locksmith skill (3) rank and his Mind stat (6) to the result. His target, determined by the GM, is set at 22 since it is a complex lock. He rolls a 3 + 4 + 6 (rolls again and adds with a 3) for a total of 16 + 3 + 6 = 25 > 22. Success!

In the explanation, I don't see where that extra roll for a three is coming from. That should be noted, even if it's explained elsewhere.

QuoteThe stat will depend on what is being attempted. For instance, if one uses their Running skill with Mind to figure out the best way to avoid the Infected. Then, to implement, Running would be used with Body to actually run through the predetermined path. The GM may assign a higher difficulty if the conditions warrant it or if the proper planning was not done.

Would the use of Running (Mind) give a bonus of some sort to the Running (Body)? If so, you should illustrate this.

QuoteCooperative Skill Use
If the GM decides that it would be appropriate and possible, a group of characters can cooperate to accomplish a skill. To do this, one character is designated as the person performing the skill (Primary) and the rest are supporting the skill attempt (Secondary). Those supporting the skill test roll there skill with the difficulty designated by the GM. If they are successful they may add their Skill Rank to the total of the Primary.

Example: Dirk is trying to set a bomb to blow up a bridge and cut off the infected. He is set as the Primary. Cherry will be loading up and setting detonators for the blocks of C-4. She rolls her skill Craft (Explosives) + Mind (4 +8 = 12) with a Difficulty of 18. She rolls a 10 + 12 = 22 for a success. Dirk then adds 4 to his roll.

Then the stat associated with the skill in the list is a default stat rather than a hard-linked stat?

QuoteProtracted Skill Use
A skill that might take more than a few rounds is considered protracted. This means the skill must be completed in periodic checks. So, something like repairing a car might take 4 hours. The GM and player agree on the time for the action and then it is evenly divided into 4 checks representing 25%, 50%, 75% and 100% completion. At each point a skill check must be made. If the player wishes, they may take add one to the Difficulty and increase the amount accomplished by 5%. This may not exceed the Skill Rank of the skill being attempted. Alternatively, the player may drop the percentage completed by 5% and lower the difficulty by 1.

Example: Cherry is repairing the Eldorado in order to escape the wave of infected due later that night. The GM and player determine that the repairs should take 4 hours. This is devided into 1 hour increments. Cherry has a rank 5 in Craft (Engine Repair) and knows they only have a few hours. To rush the job, she lected to add 25% to each increment and make only two checks, one at 50% and the other at 100%. This will get the job done in 2 hours if she is successful. The GM and Player determine this is a moderate Difficulty and set the Difficulty at 20. Since she is rushing, the difficulty is raised by 5. Her bonus is 5 for her Skill and 8 for her Stat for a total of 13. She rolls a 14 on 3d6 and gets a total of 27, succeeding. On her second try she rolls a 10 for a total of 23. She tries again, extending the repairs by another hour, and rolls a 15 for a 28 and success. Dirk and Cherry make it out of the city before the Infected arrive...or do they?

Skill List
The following are skills and their default stat used for standard checks.
Skills
Skill Stat Specified?
Athletics Body Yes
Craft Mind Yes
Deception Spirit No
Dodge Body No
Driving Mind No
Education Mind Yes
First Aid Spirit No
Hunting Mind No
Intimidation Spirit No
Mele Combat Body No
Piloting Body Yes
Ranged Combat Body No
Stealth (Hide) Mind No
Stealth (Movement) Body No
Unarmed Combat Body No

Skill Specifications
Some of the above skills must be specified, or further defined. This means that something like Athletics needs to have the type of Athletics chosen, like Running. This is denoted by writing the skill name followed by the specification in paranthesis like so: Athletics (Running).
The following are some suggested specializations skills. The following is a suggested list but is not exhaustive.

Does the base skill give you better than zero-level chances in other branches of the skill, or is it specialized from the beginning? For example:

QuoteIf you have Athletics (Running) you are better at Athletics (Baseball) than someone who has no Athletics skill at all.

OR

QuoteIf you have Athletics (Running) you are effectively at Athletics (Baseball) 0, just like someone who has no Athletics skill at all.

If it is the latter, why have the Skill (Specialization) split? Either make each specialization a skill, because they effectively operate as individual skills, or drop the specializations entirely. The latter would be appropriate in a cinematic game such as Zombipocalypse. The former would be more appropriate in a non-cinematic game.

QuoteSpecifications
Skill Specifications
Athletics
Football, Baseball, Tennis, Cricket, Running, Soccer, LaCrosse
Craft Locksmithing, Metal Working, Knitting, Engine Repair, Explosives, Masonry

Education
Computers, History, Biology, Geology, Architecture, Military Strategies, Chemistry, Mechanical Engineering

Piloting
Tank, Prop Airplane, Jet Airplane, Sail Boat, Motor Boat, Large Water Craft, Construction Equipment, Helicopter, Motorcycle, Train

I'd add:

QuoteDriving Mind Yes

Driving
Tank, Sail Boat, Motor Boat, Large Water Craft, Construction Equipment, Motorcycle, Train

Then change Piloting to:

QuotePiloting
Prop Airplane, Jet Airplane, Helicopter, Glider

This is because Driving is two dimensional, while Piloting is three-dimensional. This is a fundamental difference.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;271431I'll give it my best shot!

I have every faith in you.

Quote from: flyingmice;271431Looking at the list of skills, I don't see any differentiation as to being Childhood, Mature, or Professional. What is the in-game difference? Does this differentiation merely donote the pool of skills they were taken from - i.e. Athletics (Baseball) would be available as a childhood skill and maybe mature, but not professional? If so, that wouldn't be a categorization of skill, but a categorization of skill pool.

My bad. It is actually in the character creation and exp sections. It should be mentioned here. I rewrote the initial paragraph thus:

QuoteSkills
Skills are split into Childhood, Mature and Professional categories. This reflects skills learned in childhood, those learned as adults and ones that are learnt as part of a profession. In the system, it is reflected that any skill that is a Childhood skill may only advance to rank 2, Mature skills to rank 4, and Professional skills to the full Rank 6. When creating a character skills will be divided between these categories. As experience is allocated, they may be graduated to the next category by using experience.

Skills range from 1 to 6 in terms of ranks. Ranks are the expertise that a character has with that skill. If a character has 0 ranks in a skill it means they are unskilled.

Quote from: flyingmice;271431In the explanation, I don't see where that extra roll for a three is coming from. That should be noted, even if it's explained elsewhere.

Added:

Example: a player rolls 3d6 and adds his Locksmith skill (3) rank and his Mind  stat (6) to the result. His target, determined by the GM, is set at 22 since it is a complex lock. He rolls a 3 + 4 + 6 (rolls again, rolls a 3 and adds it to the total he rolled) for a total of 16. He then adds this to his Skill Rank and Stat like so 16 (roll) + 3 (Skill Rank) + 6 (Mind) = 25 > 22. Success!

Quote from: flyingmice;271431Would the use of Running (Mind) give a bonus of some sort to the Running (Body)? If so, you should illustrate this.

Good idea. I worded it differently by lowering the Difficulty. So:

QuoteThe stat will depend on what is being attempted. For instance, if one uses their Athletics (Running) skill with Mind to figure out the best way to avoid the Infected. Then, to implement, Athletics (Running) would be used with Body to actually run through the predetermined path. A possible benefit would be to subtract the character's Athletics (Running) skill rank from the stated Difficulty. For instance, if the character's Athletics (Running) skill rank is 4 and the GM has stated the Difficulty is 20, then the Difficulty would drop to 16. An alternative would be to add this as a bonus to the Defense roll of the character if he is attacked while running through the horde of infected.

Quote from: flyingmice;271431Then the stat associated with the skill in the list is a default stat rather than a hard-linked stat?

Yes. It is not hard coded but in other systems I have done like this it ends up being the one most folks reach for all the time. I found it better to suggest the default then to have people grasping.

Quote from: flyingmice;271431Does the base skill give you better than zero-level chances in other branches of the skill, or is it specialized from the beginning? For example:



OR



If it is the latter, why have the Skill (Specialization) split? Either make each specialization a skill, because they effectively operate as individual skills, or drop the specializations entirely. The latter would be appropriate in a cinematic game such as Zombipocalypse. The former would be more appropriate in a non-cinematic game.

I took a different route. What do you think? Combine it with the Unskilled Attempt explanation I did below.

QuoteSkill Specifications
Some of the above skills must be specified, or further defined. This means that something like Athletics needs to have the type of Athletics chosen, like Running. This is denoted by writing the skill name followed by the specification in paranthesis like so: Athletics (Running).

If a skill is used in an area related but not specified (the character has Athletics (Running) but wishes to use Athletic (Baseball)) then they may apply the Stat to their roll but not the Skill rank.

Example: Cherry wants to try driving a Tank that they found on a military base. She has Driving (Auto) but not Driving (Tank). Her difficulty is 18 to start the tank and drive it down the road, a simple enough task. She rolls a 3 + 2 + 5 for a total of 10. Since it is a related skill, she is able to add her Mind stat of 8 bringing her total to 18 and success.

QuoteUnskilled Attempts
When a character does not have any skill ranks in a related skill to the action they are attempting it is called an unskilled attempt. When they perform such a task they do not have any skill to add to the roll nor any stat. They only roll the base 3d6 for the check. This means some actions will be beyond their skill.

Quote from: flyingmice;271431I'd add:



Then change Piloting to:



This is because Driving is two dimensional, while Piloting is three-dimensional. This is a fundamental difference.

-clash

Done.

Thanks Clash!

Bill

Quote from: HinterWelt;271461I have every faith in you.

My bad. It is actually in the character creation and exp sections. It should be mentioned here. I rewrote the initial paragraph thus:

I knew there was a difference, but it should be included in the skills chapter as well as in chargen etc. It is important to know the difference in both areas, but in play, looking up how skills work, a person would naturally look first in the Skills chapter.

QuoteAdded:

Example: a player rolls 3d6 and adds his Locksmith skill (3) rank and his Mind  stat (6) to the result. His target, determined by the GM, is set at 22 since it is a complex lock. He rolls a 3 + 4 + 6 (rolls again, rolls a 3 and adds it to the total he rolled) for a total of 16. He then adds this to his Skill Rank and Stat like so 16 (roll) + 3 (Skill Rank) + 6 (Mind) = 25 > 22. Success!

OK. I've read this thing five times and I still cannot see where the extra die roll is coming from. 3d6 + Skill Rank + Stat is (3+3+6)+4+6=22. You say "(rolls again, rolls a 3 and adds it to the total he rolled)". Why did the player roll another die? You don't say why that roll is made.

QuoteGood idea. I worded it differently by lowering the Difficulty. So:

That works for me.

QuoteYes. It is not hard coded but in other systems I have done like this it ends up being the one most folks reach for all the time. I found it better to suggest the default then to have people grasping.

I agree.

QuoteI took a different route. What do you think? Combine it with the Unskilled Attempt explanation I did below.

This works too. Nice!

QuoteDone.

Thanks Clash!

Happy to help!

-clash
Bill[/QUOTE]

Quote from: flyingmice;271468OK. I've read this thing five times and I still cannot see where the extra die roll is coming from. 3d6 + Skill Rank + Stat is (3+3+6)+4+6=22. You say "(rolls again, rolls a 3 and adds it to the total he rolled)". Why did the player roll another die? You don't say why that roll is made.

Sorry, again, in a different section. This is an Open Ended Roll system so rolling a 6 means you roll and add. I should make it more apparent.

Thanks,
Bill

Nothing I didn't understand in the last version. I'd give advice, but FlyingMice already said it all and better than I could.

(Stealth edit! Was tired...)

When I saw [Zombipocalypse] in the thread title, I read it as "Zombie Hippo Apocalypse," or possible "Zombie Hippo Calypso," as in the Carib music.  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calypso_music
I am very disappointed that there are no zombie hippopotami performing Caribbean calypso in this thread.  

On a slightly relevant note, though, the skills seem to be very finely grained for a typical zombie fight game.  This is fine, but it requires a little more work from the game master to make sure the characters know what kind of choices they have.  It would suck to be all psyched up to make a hang-glider pilot who fights zombies because you see "glider" as a skill, and then find out the GM doesn't want to deal with hang-gliders.  (Although fighting zombies from an ultra-light aircraft would be awesome.)   I do like the distinction between two-dimensional vehicles and three-dimensional flying.

Quote from: riprock;271607When I saw [Zombipocalypse] in the thread title, I read it as "Zombie Hippo Apocalypse," or possible "Zombie Hippo Calypso," as in the Carib music.  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calypso_music
I am very disappointed that there are no zombie hippopotami performing Caribbean calypso in this thread.  

On a slightly relevant note, though, the skills seem to be very finely grained for a typical zombie fight game.  This is fine, but it requires a little more work from the game master to make sure the characters know what kind of choices they have.  It would suck to be all psyched up to make a hang-glider pilot who fights zombies because you see "glider" as a skill, and then find out the GM doesn't want to deal with hang-gliders.  (Although fighting zombies from an ultra-light aircraft would be awesome.)   I do like the distinction between two-dimensional vehicles and three-dimensional flying.

One of the supplements Linda and I have already been discussing is Zombipocalypse: A Day at the Zoo where you face infected zoo animals...yeah, we went there!

As tot he skills, yeah, I have wondered a bit off target here (as usual) and am mixing genres. Right now, I got sci-fi in your Zombie/post apoc setting. That is why we have slightly finer grain than you might in a straight up shoot-em-up-zombie game. So far, I like the way it has been fleshing out.

Thanks,
Bill