I've used both. I prefer InDesign.

Seanchai

I use Microsoft Publisher.

That isn't a recommendation.  I use it because it came with one of my computers quite a while back and I'm good at using it; no other reason.

Guys, this stuff is pure gold.  Thank you so very much.  I'm still sitting back and digesting all this, but a few questions:

-Bill/clash:  You say there's not many folks using FrameMaker?  Is there some reason for that?  You both seem to hold it in high regard.

-Which product have you found that has the easiest learning curve.  For those of you who said Open Office/Publisher, do you find any limitations or design issues with those?

Quote from: Zachary The First;270783Guys, this stuff is pure gold.  Thank you so very much.  I'm still sitting back and digesting all this, but a few questions:

-Bill/clash:  You say there's not many folks using FrameMaker?  Is there some reason for that?  You both seem to hold it in high regard.

Fashion!

Actually, it's designed for laying out technical projects rather than more graphics-heavy projects, so there are less people using it. Since it's rather expensive, people won't buy it unless they need it. I don't know why Bill bought it, but I bought it because that's what I write. Most people using Quark or InDesign use it because they use it for work. or it was recommended for use by someone whoi use them at work.

Quote-Which product have you found that has the easiest learning curve.  For those of you who said Open Office/Publisher, do you find any limitations or design issues with those?

The easiest one I've ever used is Serif Page Plus, and it's very powerful.

-clash

Quote from: Zachary The First;270783-Which product have you found that has the easiest learning curve.  For those of you who said Open Office/Publisher, do you find any limitations or design issues with those?

Basically I say, free and simple for the amateurs, bought and learned for the professionals.

OpenOffice is open-sourced so it's constantly adjusted by user input, and so its way of doing things has reached a sort of common sense consensus - it just makes sense to most people who are at all computer-savvy.

OpenOffice is fine if you all you want is a column or two of text and the occasional image or chart. If you want to do things like having fancy borders on each page, or GURPS 4e's different-coloured borders for each chapter with numerous pull quotes, or 3e's three-column layout with each outer column being a sidebar, then OO is too clunky and hard to work with.

It's designed for simple users for simple documents. However, it is free and creates pdfs without fuss.

So I would say is that if all you're going to do is create free or vanity press (ie, not expecting to pay any bills with the proceeds) pdfs, then OpenOffice is fine. But if you're going to produce professional (ie pay bills with the proceeds) pdfs and print-on-demand books, then you should buy and make the effort to learn a professional suite like those discussed.

Quote from: flyingmice;270785Fashion!

Actually, it's designed for laying out technical projects rather than more graphics-heavy projects, so there are less people using it. Since it's rather expensive, people won't buy it unless they need it. I don't know why Bill bought it, but I bought it because that's what I write. Most people using Quark or InDesign use it because they use it for work. or it was recommended for use by someone whoi use them at work.

I have yet to find something I cannot do with FM. Now, it has taken me up to a month of heavy research to figure out how to do it but you can do a lot with FM if you are patient. Is it the easiest? I would not characterize it that way. I has a tough but not impossible learning curve.

I bought my copy (about $700) when HinterWelt started up but I have been using it for nearly 20 years, since I was doing design and tech documents in college. After college, it was for design documentation.

For easiest to use, I find Word to do most of what I need to do.

Bill

I think a lot of has to do with what you want to do with it.

InDesign and Quark Xpress are there if you want to do highly detailed, complicated designs with layers and crap like that. Other programs allow you to layout a page, keep track of those pages and put in some art here and there. And the latter are usually cheaper than the former.

So, depending on what you can afford and what you want it to do, the answer of "what's best" could vary wildly.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;270790OpenOffice is fine if you all you want is a column or two of text and the occasional image or chart. If you want to do things like having fancy borders on each page, or GURPS 4e's different-coloured borders for each chapter with numerous pull quotes, or 3e's three-column layout with each outer column being a sidebar, then OO is too clunky and hard to work with.

About fancy borders and background images in Open Office, I use the footnotes to integrate them. Basically, I add an image tied to the footnote and resize it to occupy the whole background. Since it's tied to the footnote, it will be reproduced on all pages of the same type. I use this technique because if you just add a background image to the page, it will only fit inside the margin of the page. Also, this way, by defining different types of pages, you can do colored backgrounds for different chapters and everything.

If some of you are interested, I will try to post an example document here.

By the way, this thread is pure gold. Thanks to everyone who shared!

PS : Some terms, like footnotes, may not be the exact tems used in Open Office. You see, I use the french version, so...

I agree, Scaredy!  If you would'nt mind posting those examples....

Guys, thanks again so much for responding to this thread.  I feel like I'm getting an education.

Quote from: Zachary The First;271075I agree, Scaredy!  If you would'nt mind posting those examples....

Will do... Tomorrow. Don't have the time to dig it out this morning.

Here you go. This is a mockup of the D&D 3rd layout I was trying to do. There is no real content here, just placeholders to show you what can be achieved with Open Office.

http://www.box.net/shared/vafh9sasdq

I also used it to make this custom character sheet for Dark heresy :

http://www.box.net/shared/4g8x1d88ta

The thing I like with OO, it's that once you set up the layout for you document, you can type directly in it, thus seeing what it will look like while creating it. You have the power of a word processor and a layout software, all in one.

Also, I don't think someone mentioned Scribus. It's a free, open source layout software.

Finally, I just want to add that I often use Inkscape to layout character sheets. It's a free and open source vector editor. Here's a sheet I did for a AD&D 2nd edition game taking place in the Shannara universe :

http://www.box.net/shared/sxyshj7z4f

That's it folks. Enjoy!

Excellent work on all three of those!

...How do you use Open Office to lay out stuff? I haven't figured that out yet...

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;271586...How do you use Open Office to lay out stuff? I haven't figured that out yet...

What do you mean?

Basically, laying out stuff = writing something and saving it as a PDF. Columns and headers are really easy to do. To obtain fancier effects in OO, you use the technique I outlined some posts before. At least, that's how I do it. The thing is, you have to work with the styles. This is a powerful tool. It's like CSS for the HTML language. Once you've mastered the styles and learned a few tricks like using the footnotes for recurrent content, you are good to go.

The only one I see in this thread is putting an image in a footnote. Do you mean the options under the Format menu for styles? Because I don't really see that much flexibility there.