I'm working on getting my Elthos RPG mini-system ready for publication. I have one page set aside for an introduction, and some place holder text there at the moment that I'm not quite satisfied with. Reading one of the threads here, and getting a note of warning from my copy-editor, I'm going to give it a re-write. But I'm kinda stumped as to what an Introduction should cover. At the moment it comes across as "Why you should check out Elthos RPG" and talks about what it's for, and why I think it's great. My copy editor suggested that this kind of message is best left for the Marketing blurb when I load it to Lulu. So then I stared at it for a while, but am not sure what to replace it with... or if an Introduction is even necessary? Any advice would be welcome. Thanks.
How about a history of the game? What prompted you to design it, what games influenced you, how the game developed, that kind of thing.
Quote from: WarthurHow about a history of the game? What prompted you to design it, what games influenced you, how the game developed, that kind of thing.
More suited for the Designer Notes section I think.
Quote from: VBWyrdeAt the moment it comes across as "Why you should check out Elthos RPG" and talks about what it's for, and why I think it's great. My copy editor suggested that this kind of message is best left for the Marketing blurb when I load it to Lulu.
Introductions tend to be a repeat of the useful marketing information for those who pick up the book without having seen the marketing. That may not happen on Lulu itself, but it would for any who happened to have the book loaned to them. So I'm at a lost.
I'd ask the copy editor what he thinks should go there.
I'm with gelichman. Say what the game is. Set the tone. Introduce the big stuff, say what the players might be up to.
Quote from: Rob LangI'm with gelichman. Say what the game is. Set the tone. Introduce the big stuff, say what the players might be up to.
Ok thanks for the feedback guys. It sounds like maybe what I have now would be ok for the Introduction. I did ask the copy editor what she suggested should go there and she thought maybe an example of play...? I was like ... um ... ok... but then again maybe not. Hehe. Would it be ok to post the Introduction here later and you could critique it?
Thanks!
Mark
Quote from: VBWyrdeOk thanks for the feedback guys. It sounds like maybe what I have now would be ok for the Introduction. I did ask the copy editor what she suggested should go there and she thought maybe an example of play...? I was like ... um ... ok... but then again maybe not. Hehe. Would it be ok to post the Introduction here later and you could critique it?
Thanks!
Mark
Example of play? I rather doubt it.
Maybe I'm too old school. "Tell them what you about to tell them, tell them, remind them of what you told them." Maybe too simple and unnuanced in today's world.
Sure, I'd like to see the Introduction. I hope I notice it being posted, shoot me a PM if I don't.
Include an example of play but not in the introduction. The Intro is the first thing people read. They get the book, they sit down with a cup of tea and something to dip into it and they want to know what they're going to get into. Although they have purchased the book, you still have to sell it to get them to play. Ease them into the concepts your game is about. They may never have played anything but AD&D.
Please do throw it up here, I'd be happy to give it a read! :)
Quote from: Rob LangInclude an example of play but not in the introduction. The Intro is the first thing people read. They get the book, they sit down with a cup of tea and something to dip into it and they want to know what they're going to get into. Although they have purchased the book, you still have to sell it to get them to play. Ease them into the concepts your game is about. They may never have played anything but AD&D.
Please do throw it up here, I'd be happy to give it a read! :)
Ok great. Thanks.
I should also mention that the current project is my mini-system. As such the rules are only 22 pages total, including cover page, introduction, rules, example of play, mini-GM Guide, printout sheets, and index. It's a mini-system. And so, given that, my question is whether or not an Introduction at all is overkill. BUT that said, I will post the introduction when I get home. Thanks again!
Quote from: VBWyrde...given that, my question is whether or not an Introduction at all is overkill.
A mini-system probably merits a mini-introduction. Seriously.
Think of an introduction this way: A random person picks up your book/document/whatever for the first time, without any idea of what it is or what to expect. The first page should tell the reader what the document is, what it's intended to achieve, and (very briefly) how to achieve it. If you've ever written a university term paper, the introduction to a game needn't differ significantly from that form -- state the purpose of the paper, a brief summary of how the purpose was pursued, and a summary of the conclusions.
!i!
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaA mini-system probably merits a mini-introduction. Seriously.
I'm with Ian on this.
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaA mini-system probably merits a mini-introduction. Seriously.
Think of an introduction this way: A random person picks up your book/document/whatever for the first time, without any idea of what it is or what to expect. The first page should tell the reader what the document is, what it's intended to achieve, and (very briefly) how to achieve it. If you've ever written a university term paper, the introduction to a game needn't differ significantly from that form -- state the purpose of the paper, a brief summary of how the purpose was pursued, and a summary of the conclusions.
!i!
Yep. I get ya. Of course I have certain design constraints that lead me down this path. That being that I need to publish in full pages, and all the other pages are packed solid. So it's either, a one page introduction, giving me a nice clean 22 page booklet. Or its no introduction, but then I have a 21 page booklet where in I need to push a page in front of the two charts pages anyway since I want those two pages to be facing each other (so you can see both charts pages at the same time). And so... I wound up with a one page introduction. I could, perhaps, shorten it. But then I still have a half page or quarter page intro... and then on the rest of the page I have ... art maybe? So anyway, I think that bit of context is also what I'm condending with. So I'll post the intro tonight and we'll see what you think of it then. Thanks very much for the advice and help!
ELTHOS
Role Playing Game Mini-System
The Core ODS Rules Book
Picnic Table & Pub
Version 1.20
Commencement Edition
Introducing The "One Die System" (ODS)
Introduction
The Elthos "One Die System" (ODS) is an ultra-light-weight Role-Playing Game (RPG) System. It is ideal for people who want to play a Role-Playing Game, but do not want overly complicated rules. It is a great system for those primarily interested in the story aspect of fantasy adventure, but who also like the game aspect. It is also great for those who want to play in settings where discretion is the better part of valor, such as a pub, or picnic table, or the back seat of your car. If you want to play a lightweight, fast-action, story-enabling game, this is for you. The ODS uses exactly one six-sided die to play the entire game! The math in the ODS is so extremely simple even I can do it!! Awesome!
Despite being light-weight, the ODS rules are actually highly sophisticated and cover almost every aspect of RPG rules that I've used over the past 30 years because they are a distillation of my more comprehensive Elthos Prime System. The ODS rules are designed to be flexible enough to pretty much handle any situation, with a little creative adjudication by the Gamesmaster. The basic game mechanic is very straight forward: Determine the Skill Level of the Character attempting any task, and the relative Level of Difficulty of doing that task in the given situation on a scale of 1 to 6. Look up the Chance To Hit on one chart (General Resolution Matrix). Roll one six-sided die to see if the Character succeeds in the task. That's the resolution system. How easy is that? Very easy!
The ODS is designed to provide a set of rules that the Gamesmaster can build off of. Creating new rules is simply a matter of keeping to the basic pattern of the existing rules, and following this one all-important Guideline: When in doubt, Keep It Simple!
This Rules Book is designed for one purpose only: To provide you with the Core Rules. Therefore it is very small. However, there is plenty of Setting to the Elthos World, but that information will be provided separately in The Elthos World Weaver's Guide.
To speak briefly about the Setting, the Elthos World is designed to let World Weavers create any kinds of World they wish. There is no one specific Genre associated to Elthos. The Celestial Island of Elthos embodies reflections of Arthurian Romances, Greek & Norse Myths, Gothic Horror, folklore, fairytales, and a truly endless myriad of Otherworldly possibilities. But more on all of this in the Elthos World Weaver's Guide. The ODS Core Rules Book will help you to create the objects within your World, (Characters, Races, Items) and provide a simple yet comprehensive methodology for resolving conflicts and determining victories or defeats within the game world. With this Rules Book you can run Adventures and pit Characters against each other or monsters, and create stories based on their actions and their consequences.
Ultimately Elthos is a Story Game. It is about the Players as a group creating a Great Story via the game-actions of their Characters within the context of a fascinating World.
To learn more about Elthos RPG please visit the Elthos Website at http://www.elthos.com.
I think I see what the copy editor was saying. There's a bunch there is a strong sales pitch.
I'd be a little less "This is great, give up sliced bread for it" and a bit more, here's what you have in your hands. They've already bought it after all.
Quote from: gleichmanI think I see what the copy editor was saying. There's a bunch there is a strong sales pitch.
I'd be a little less "This is great, give up sliced bread for it" and a bit more, here's what you have in your hands. They've already bought it after all.
I see. Ok ... I think I can manage to tone down the pitch aspect. My impression was when I wrote this that this was supposed to be the sales pitch page. Not so? Ok, no problem. I appreciate the feedback. Thank you. :)
I'd also advise that you poke out those "I"s. Just doesn't sound right to me, but then that may just be me.
Quote from: beejazzI'd also advise that you poke out those "I"s. Just doesn't sound right to me, but then that may just be me.
My sense of it now is that it's mostly what I want to say, but just needs to be toned down a bit. Can do. And take out some, or all, perhaps, of the "I" stuff. Ok. I think I was imagining 12 to 15 year olds who haven't played RPGs before reading it. I don't know why exactly I was thinking that I should write it for that audience, but ... there you have it. Thanks for the advice. Much obliged. :)
Agree with all the previous stuff...
Perhaps it might read a little easier if you started with the settings related pieces and enthuse about what experiences the players and GM will have and then describe the mechanics. As it's a core rules, you don't want to dwell on the setting too much but it gives the reader a mind set.
Hope that helps. Intros are tricky things - slipperly and difficult to gain a good hold on!
Want to PM me VB?
Quote from: Rob LangAgree with all the previous stuff...
Perhaps it might read a little easier if you started with the settings related pieces and enthuse about what experiences the players and GM will have and then describe the mechanics. As it's a core rules, you don't want to dwell on the setting too much but it gives the reader a mind set.
Hope that helps. Intros are tricky things - slipperly and difficult to gain a good hold on!
Right. At the moment the way it reads is that the Settings stuff is the after thought, in that I talk about the core rules, and then, because I think most people are going to want to know if there is a setting associated to the game, whether or not I intend to publish anything about that. The answer is yes, I do, but not right away, and probably not for some time since that's a complicated subject.
But I wanted to express that there actually *is* a setting to Elthos, and that I will publish something about it, albeit not right away. My feeling based on other feedback is that it is better to just get stuff out into the public as soon as I can instead of trying to create the entire project in a one giant big bang release... since that will just mean that this project will go on for who-knows-how-long. So my thinking is that the Core Rules book for the mini-system can go out first, and make it's little splash down (given the enormous quantity of new games coming online I'm not expecting the ODS rules alone to make a huge impression), and then go on to publish the other aspects (the web application, the setting, etc) as time permits and do a slow but steady build up. Well, that's my current plan, anyway.
So you're saying that for the intro I might want to put the verbiage about the setting before my description of the core rules, eh? Ok, that's an interesting idea. That way it ends on a high note of "This is what you have!", rather than the setting stuff, which essentially says, "and this is what you'll get later!" Do I get your drift?
And yup, I didn't figure the Intro would be so tricky, but it is! LOL. :P
Quote from: gleichmanI'd be a little less "This is great, give up sliced bread for it" and a bit more, here's what you have in your hands. They've already bought it after all.
This is a good point. A much-abbreviated form of sales pitch may go on the back of the book, but the intro should be a more objective statement. Beejazz is also onto something when he suggests removing the personal pronoun from the introduction. Again, this may be getting at a more objective statement about the game itself.
!i!
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaThis is a good point. A much-abbreviated form of sales pitch may go on the back of the book, but the intro should be a more objective statement. Beejazz is also onto something when he suggests removing the personal pronoun from the introduction. Again, this may be getting at a more objective statement about the game itself.
!i!
Ok this is all excellent feedback. Thank you! I'll try to do a revision and maybe post it again to get a final verdict. :)
Also, in case anyone has any thoughts on the idea of publishing the core rules and later on the setting book - given it might take me a year to put the setting book together... does it make sense to publish the core rules first, and then later publish the setting book?
Quote from: gleichmanExample of play? I rather doubt it.
Personally I really like
good examples of play - like the one in the main CoC rulebook, or the 1E DMG. Something which gives you the platonic ideal of what the designers think an absolutely archetypal session of the game in question would look like tells me more than a fat book of designer's notes ever could.
Quote from: WarthurPersonally I really like good examples of play - like the one in the main CoC rulebook, or the 1E DMG. Something which gives you the platonic ideal of what the designers think an absolutely archetypal session of the game in question would look like tells me more than a fat book of designer's notes ever could.
That sounds fair enough, but I assume you don't mean you'd like to see that in the one page Introduction... do you?
Quote from: VBWyrdeThat sounds fair enough, but I assume you don't mean you'd like to see that in the one page Introduction... do you?
Play examples are always wonderful.
But they don't belong in the introduction. They either belong with the rules they are an example of, or at near the end in it's own "Example of Play" section.
Quote from: gleichmanPlay examples are always wonderful.
But they don't belong in the introduction. They either belong with the rules they are an example of, or at near the end in it's own "Example of Play" section.
Agreed. I do have a play example in the rules book. However, it's really not Setting focused, but rules focused instead. While I do have a bit of color in the example, that color is pretty sparce. I'm thinking that real play examples should probably go in the Settings book, rather than in my mini-system rules book. Does that make sense? Conversely, another thought that comes to mind is to publish play examples on the website...? Yah?
Quote from: VBWyrdeAlso, in case anyone has any thoughts on the idea of publishing the core rules and later on the setting book - given it might take me a year to put the setting book together... does it make sense to publish the core rules first, and then later publish the setting book?
I think you'd be best served if they were published together if at all possible. At least these days.
I'd like to think that rules were about by themselves, but I think I'm nearly alone in that opinion.
Quote from: VBWyrdeAgreed. I do have a play example in the rules book. However, it's really not Setting focused, but rules focused instead. While I do have a bit of color in the example, that color is pretty sparce. I'm thinking that real play examples should probably go in the Settings book, rather than in my mini-system rules book. Does that make sense? Conversely, another thought that comes to mind is to publish play examples on the website...? Yah?
Rule examples are all I'm looking for in a rulebook.
Quote from: VBWyrdeAlso, in case anyone has any thoughts on the idea of publishing the core rules and later on the setting book - given it might take me a year to put the setting book together... does it make sense to publish the core rules first, and then later publish the setting book?
This is something of a critical balancing act. On the one hand, you have the enthusiasm right now to get your final product done, out there in people's hands, and gathering feedback. Wait too long to get the core book out, and you might become discouraged and shelve it prematurely. On the other hand, when you get it into people's hands, they're going to want more in fairly short order. Wait too long to get the next product out, and your readers may have lost interest in the mean time.
What's the popular wisdom I've heard before? One on deck and two in the queue? Basically, for an on-going game line, when you release the core rules, you should have three supplements already written -- one ready for immediate follow-up release, and two in layout/pre-production.
!i!
Quote from: gleichmanRule examples are all I'm looking for in a rulebook.
Well written rules don't need much in the way of examples of play, though. For instance, the original LBB
Traveller had virtually no examples, but was written and organised well. On the other hand, Mongoose's new
Traveller (the playtest documents, at least) were rife with examples, in some sections outweighing the rules text almost 2-to-1. Resist the urge to pad content with examples.
!i!
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaWell written rules don't need much in the way of examples of play, though.
Depends upon the rules.
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaWell written rules don't need much in the way of examples of play, though. For instance, the original LBB Traveller had virtually no examples, but was written and organised well. On the other hand, Mongoose's new Traveller (the playtest documents, at least) were rife with examples, in some sections outweighing the rules text almost 2-to-1. Resist the urge to pad content with examples.
!i!
Well, what I have now is this setup for the rules book:
Cover page - with picture
Table of contents
Introduction - one page
Rules - 12 pages
Charts - 2 pages
Example Combat with magic - 1 page
Mini-Gamesmaster's Guide - 1 page
Print Sheets - 3 pages (character sheets, blank hex map, blank grid map)
Total: 22 pages (8x11, 10pt font)
It is really low frills. The rational is that it is a mini-system, so I felt the rules book should reflect that by being ... well, mini. For each rule I also provide a mini-example which is usually one line in italics. I hope that will do.
Quote from: gleichmanDepends upon the rules.
Granted, and any game as a whole benefits from examples of how the rules work.
!i!
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaWell written rules don't need much in the way of examples of play, though. For instance, the original LBB Traveller had virtually no examples, but was written and organised well. On the other hand, Mongoose's new Traveller (the playtest documents, at least) were rife with examples, in some sections outweighing the rules text almost 2-to-1. Resist the urge to pad content with examples.
!i!
Thanks for the thoughts on this. I've been puzzled about the usefulness/effectiveness of the examples vs. well designed rules ever since one of my pals mentioned that I should include examples of play. So I did drum up an example of combat, and added that as a page in the rules book. Another friend said I should definitely have a table of contents (even for a 20 page book?, I asked - he said, "Definitely"). So ... here's the Elthos ODS Core Rules book Table of Contents:
ELTHOS (cover page with image and credits)................... 1
TABLE OF CONTENTS ........................................... 2
INTRODUCTION: THE ELTHOS ONE DIE SYSTEM ..................... 3
THE CORE ODS RULES .......................................... 4
Required Equipment for Playing the Game ..................... 4
Character Generation: Requisites ............................ 4
Character Generation: Adventure Guild Classes ............... 4
Character Generation: Character Level ....................... 4
Character Life Points ....................................... 5
Character Mystic Points ..................................... 5
Character Heritage .......................................... 5
Character Starting Money .................................... 5
Character Attack Level & Skills Level ....................... 5
Character Armor Class & Difficulty Level .................... 5
Weapon Damage Bonus & Attack Level Modifier ................. 5
Death, Damage & Character Regeneration ...................... 6
Learning Skills & Mystic Powers at the Adventurer’s Guild ... 6
Using Skills & Task Difficulty Level ........................ 6
The General Resolution Matrix ............................... 6
Random Encounters & Wandering Monsters ...................... 6
Group Initiative ............................................ 7
Movement Rules .............................................. 7
Positional Armor Class Adjustment ........................... 7
Zones of Control ............................................ 7
Character Races, Monsters & Critters ........................ 8
Calculating Experience Gains (XPG): Skills & Kills .......... 8
Losing Experience! .......................................... 8
ODS Rules Modifications Guideline Note ...................... 9
Mystic Powers: Magic & Miracles ............................. 9
Mystic Combat ............................................... 9
Mystic Attack Level & Armor Class Formulas .................. 9
Mana Gems, Mystical Artifacts & Relics ...................... 9
True Love, Marriage & Character Inheritance ................. 9
MYSTIC POWERS (SPELLS & MIRACLES) DESCRIPTIONS .............. 10
1st Book of Spells [Level] for Spell Chanters ............... 10
1st Book of Miracles (Alignment) [Level] for Clerics ........ 10
Combat, Magic & Skills – Default Rules ...................... 11
Optional Supplemental General Rules ......................... 11
Optional Supplemental Movement Rules ........................ 11
Optional Supplemental Combat Rules .......................... 11
Optional Supplemental Magic Rules ........................... 11
ELTHOS ODS CHARTS ........................................... 12
GAMESMASTER’S MINI-GUIDE .................................... 15
PRINT SECTION ............................................... 16
Printable Outdoor/Wilderness "Hex" Map ...................... 16
Printable Indoor/Dungeon “Square” Map ....................... 17
Combat Melee Tracker ........................................ 18
Character Sheets ............................................ 19
EXAMPLES SECTION ............................................ 20
Example Characters .......................................... 20
Example Combat, Spell Use, and Experience Gain .............. 21
It's pretty low frills. The rational is that it is a mini-system, so I felt the rules book should reflect that by being ... well, mini. I tried to cover all of the basic stuff I do with my world in terms of GMing systems, but pared down to the absolute minimum. For example in my regular rules system I have 10 requisites, but in the mini system I have only three. The regular system uses 4d6 for requisites while the mini-system uses 1d6. And so on. I know it probably will strike many RPGers as too simple, but my goal was to produce the absolute simplest set of rules, without losing the fundamental mechanics of my game. So here you have the contents. What do you think?
If a rule takes more than 1 step to resolve or there are multiple ways of resolving the rule, then i'd recommend an example or two. Otherwise, they probably aren't necessary.
Quote from: One Horse TownIf a rule takes more than 1 step to resolve or there are multiple ways of resolving the rule, then i'd recommend an example or two. Otherwise, they probably aren't necessary.
Thanks... I think I more or less followed that guideline. I tried to keep reasonably consistant throughout the booklet. So what I did was include a one line example of each rule where I felt it would help in italics that can be easily spotted, and checked. I *think* that makes the system more quickly understood. Sometimes I find trying to describe clearly in text (especially mathematical stuff) is more difficult than providing an example - and certainly the example makes the text easier to grasp. Here's an example:
Character Starting MoneyAfter the first roll, the Starting Money is based on the Heritage of the Character who starts with 100 x the Heritage roll in Iron Pieces.
Thus a Peasant would start with 100 Iron which is enough to purchase a sturdy weapon or a good piece of Armor. A Ruler Character starts with 600 Iron, which is enough to purchase reasonably good weapons and armor, or items.I was trying to write this book for an age range between 11 and 15, more or less, though I think the system itself may be attractive, under certain circumstances, to a wider audience.