I have to say I'm a bit skeptical about people being able to play Vampire in cases where none of the group are already gamers. But, as with a lot of other things, this seems to end with me wanting statistics that no one has

Quote from: Age of FableI have to say I'm a bit skeptical about people being able to play Vampire in cases where none of the group are already gamers. But, as with a lot of other things, this seems to end with me wanting statistics that no one has

I think there were a lot of guys who had been playing D&D since they were 9 or 10 picking up Vampire because it helped with picking up women.  One of the guys I used to game with got really into the Vampire Live-Action scene and met quite a few lady friends that way.

Quote from: Age of FableI have to say I'm a bit skeptical about people being able to play Vampire in cases where none of the group are already gamers. But, as with a lot of other things, this seems to end with me wanting statistics that no one has

Well I do not have stats beyond my own two stores. We had 6 nights a week, 8-10 players per games, a couple of 2 sessions per night. Part of it was simply the setting expressed what was cool and accessible in the culture of the time. The stores were 600 miles apart so I am pretty sure this was not just a local phenomenon. We also had a lot of newbies. Easily 75% with a waitin list for more. Eventually we began forming outside groups, helping players get together with STs. Demand rose, I had to write up my mods and a small setting (New Orleans at Night). I would say about 90% of this was driven by "Man! I want to play a vampire" and not "Wow! D10 dice pool!" type comments.

Bill

I'll agree that Vampire was able to be played by many people new to gaming. I think Vampire's success with new players is a good example of how it's not about the complexity of the rules (though I have a few good things to say about dice pools), but about how the game appealed to a certain fashion, literally, clothing and music and all the cultural messages woven into those things.

I think there was a thread about introductory games and another about role play / ccg hybrid games a while back.
Two things occur to me but neither may be true.
i) The best way to introduce people to something new is to find something they like and then create something that is similar to what they like but with a new element. So Vampire was big becuase it took the Anne Rice loving goths kids, who were generally into sitting at home and listening to music or reading and other failry passive activities and added role playing. The two were a great match. D&D took wargamers who loved Tolkein (etc) and added roleplaying. Magic took roleplayers who loved games and gave them stuff to collect, took away the GM and gave them a 15 minute game time.
ii) The current 'big' things with kids that could be turned into role playing games are  - the growth of pre-teen fiction that also appeals to adults, this is  Harry Potter, the Young James Bond, The Amber Spyglass etc, this might give you ideas for setings; the Internet and Social networking, this might give you an idea for delivery mechanism.

I think we all tend to look to table top games as the epitome as that is where we are all from but maybe we need to look to other medium. I am not explaining this well as its late but the idea would be you introduce the RPG concept without imposing the rather geeking connotations of sitting in a basement for 4 hours with a load of blokes who can quote Blackadder and Monthy python and have well considered positions on whether Firefly or Battlestar Galactic are the better TV shows (Firefly every time !!).
Supposing you build a facebook app for example that allowed you to pick a character, you could tweak the genre but lets say Harry Potter for example, you pick a name and get some random backgrounds and abilities. Then you get dropped into a text based world much like the old MUDs but with more intelligent AI and some sort of GM power whereby by taking so many actions you can impose events on other players Effectively you are building a MMORPG but you are stripping out the graphics and the stuff that makes it "cooler" than tabletop and you are stressing the role play and revealing the mechanics (??). You also strip out the costs that MMOs have and by tapping into facebook you open it up to a lot more potential customers.  Then you produce a p'n'p game based on the same mechanics and setting. The hope being that 1,000,000 load the app 10% play it and 10% of them maybe enjoy it enough to investigate the hobby further.
I just read that back and aside from the poor typing it is actually a load of bollocks so feel free to ignore it.

Well... it might be bollocks... but I have a Facebook app nearly ready to go with the mechanics from my game system in them. :haw:

Quote from: StuartWell... it might be bollocks... but I have a Facebook app nearly ready to go with the mechanics from my game system in them. :haw:

Hey fantastic well hope it works and you are the new Scrabulous (minus the expensive law suits etc ). Post the name of the app when its up and I'll certainly join in.

Quote from: Age of FableIn terms of anyone who thinks that an existing game is an example of "a good introductory RPG" - please say so. I'd look at that respectfully, but also skeptically; because if it is capable of appealing to non-gamers more than D&D does, that raises an obvious question.

I'd say Dungeons and Dragons for two reasons. The first is the dungeon and the second is (and it pains me to say this) Vancian magic, hit points, etc.

The dungeon is nice because at any juncture and with any challenge, the players are presented with meaningful choices like which door to take, how to get past traps, and how to kill the monster (or how to run away and make sure it doesn't follow you) and even with all these choices it's still easy for the first time DM to predict or model the outcomes of these events given the rules.

The limited resources for reasons tied to the "pacing" discussion above. You fight and fight until you're low on hp or cast and cast until you're low on spells, and that's as good a time as any to call it a night. *Or* if the party's still looking for more action you rest, get up, and go back for more dungeon.

The random tables handle more or less everything else (I have played Milles Bornes or however you spell it and cards for treasures traps and monsters would be pretty nifty, if not so much different from a d% roll).

For first timers there's just nothing like a dungeon and some characters with semi-limited resources.