[Thunderdome] 3e core party vs. Bone Devil

deadDMwalking · July 17, 2012, 09:09:02 PM

Is this still going on?

Does someone else need to step in to run the bone devil? I'm up for it.

Marleycat · July 17, 2012, 09:46:02 PM

Quote from: deadDMwalking;561258Is this still going on?

Does someone else need to step in to run the bone devil? I'm up for it.

Would you? I know Spike's ready to go and this intrigues me.

fectin · July 17, 2012, 09:56:28 PM

Would you? I actually have had no time at all since I said that I would.

Spoiler for the stuff I was planning on. Spike, you might want to stay out until after.

Spoiler

Feel free to change any of this, it's just what I came up with

I liked this map:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mapofweek/Dungeon4_76hs_150.jpg

I found a bunch of options which are blatantly unfair towards one side or the other, and most of the rest didn't feel "lichy." This was one of the few that made sense, and also has the advantage of being small.

Backstory is that a lich carved this hangout out of a mountain long, long ago. He was lichy for a long time, but hasn't been here for centuries. The little offshoot at the top left was his lab; the circle on on the right was his library. The big room is his hall of mannequins or something, where he kept his most fabulous clothes. Or a throne room; whichever. There's also a tiny guest quarters at the middle right, with very sturdy doors that lock from the outside. The cross hallway had storage rooms at one end, and something horrible at the other (mummies, maybe?). There were also originally doors about 50ft north of the stairs, and the stair side was full of unpleasant undeads.
Anyway, cultists moved in more recently, and made terrible choices re: demon summoning in the library. They are currently draped artistically about the throne room. They were the local chapter of the Right Reasonable Shadow And Zombie Fancier Society, so had rebarricaded the doors near the stairs and refilled the zombie dispensers. They were all bunked in the guest room.

The bone devil was not happy about being called here, and expressed his displeasure with a new artistic creation in the throne room (his medium is cultist parts). Unfortunately, he finds himself stuck here now. He's been alternating spending days in the lab and nights in the library, trying to figure out how to free himself.

The hallways have ceilings which are slightly higher than they are wide (13' and 8' respectively). The throne room has 25' ceilings. The library is actually 40' tall, and lined with shelves of books.

Hope that's enough to be inspiring at least.

Spike · July 17, 2012, 10:06:48 PM

Bah. Saw Kaelik in the monster thread and my brain just kept editing his name into Fectin's place.
Sure. I'll respect teh spoiler tag, just like I would for kaelik. I've already done made 'em up, gotta roll wit' what I got, right?

Kaelik · July 17, 2012, 11:04:35 PM

Okay, so preliminary thoughts from reading the thread:

1) Map seems generally fine to me: However:

Spoiler

Not sure what you mean by trapped? If you mean on plane? Sure, but since he can Greater Teleport outside, and you didn't list any magical limitations, not sure how he would be trapped. Why can't he just have decided to take up residence?

2) For the Wizard, you have Greater Spell Penetration without spell Penetration, did you spend two feats and just write the higher one? It looks like it from the number of feats, but whatever.

3) I am fine with giving XP up to half way to 11 for Permancies/Contingencies/Spells of any kind. I generally don't want to involve crafting magical equipment (other than Wizard scrolls) if we can, because that's annoying to me. Likewise I oppose Leadership for actual Leadership use, but do not in any way object to the Paladin outside with the Mules, since that's just a generous giving a way of a feat. (The level 5 Paladin anyway, if he were going to argue for a level 8, maybe I'd rethink that.)

4) On the subject of what he knows ahead of time, I obviously think that actual build items that cost money or feats should be based on not knowing what's coming, and being generally useful. But for spells prepared/strategy I think he should be able to use his spells. Not sages or anything, because 1) They don't exist in the game. 2) Relying on other people to have encountered this devil presupposes that I fail to kill that person or run away before they see me if they look too tough. No fair to declare me a failure before the test starts.

So of the listed spells, notice that Augury can only go about 30 minutes forward, so if you aren't within 30 minutes of the place, how could you possibly be auguring? Also, notice that both Augury and Divination cost money, so please spend some money casting the spells, ask the actual questions, have fectin roll for success, and make any spell preparation choices you want based on that information. But preferably please wait until after I work out everything with fectin.

5) Am I missing anything?

Spoiler

I had planned on asking for the ability to expand my monster selection to other Demons and Devils, in order to negate whatever subconscious benefits come from planning to fight a bone Devil I already explained the routine of. Things I think no one should reasonably object to are: Bone Devil/Vrock/Beblith. The Beblith is of course CR 10, but are we really in a position to complain about CR 10? I would have liked to expand it to CR 11 monsters as well, since it's going to be their only encounter of the day (that's right in his plans) and a CR 11 monster is still EL 10, and of course the CR rules spell out that they should easily be able to handle 3 of those a day, that greatly expands my options, giving me a second Devil, the barbed Devil, and also the Hezrou and Retriever as Demons. However, if any non Spike party who reads this, IE Marleycat/Benoist/Sacrosant/Fectin wants to object in a spoiler block to CR 11s, I will drop them from the table no argument.

Another reason to not choose the Bone Devil is because any monster that doesn't full attack from surprise saves us an argument about the way initiative works.

While I strongly believe that my interpretation of "come into contact" is correct, I don't imagine I can get anyone who is has come out against it to change their mind now, and even if I could, it would be a lot of arguing about it for little practical gain. But choosing a monster that does anything else to announce itself to the party instantly solves that problem.

And I really hate arguing about Monkeys in Sacks and how the rules deal with that.

jeff37923 · July 18, 2012, 04:21:33 AM

About Goddamn time you showed up, Kaelik.

deadDMwalking · July 18, 2012, 06:31:36 AM

Quote from: jeff37923;561420About Goddamn time you showed up, Kaelik.

Can you believe nobody told him when they created this thread. His expressed willingness to participate was translated as 'watching all new threads carefully to see if this one got created'.

Bobloblah · July 18, 2012, 11:01:25 AM

Quote from: deadDMwalking;561429Can you believe nobody told him when they created this thread. His expressed willingness to participate was translated as 'watching all new threads carefully to see if this one got created'.

Yeah, but, if he'd been told, then it wouldn't be possible to complain about him not being here, would it?

jeff37923 · July 18, 2012, 02:01:45 PM

Quote from: deadDMwalking;561429Can you believe nobody told him when they created this thread. His expressed willingness to participate was translated as 'watching all new threads carefully to see if this one got created'.

I could, but considering his participation in the thread that generated the Thunderdome, I find it suspect.

jeff37923 · July 18, 2012, 02:02:32 PM

Quote from: Bobloblah;561460Yeah, but, if he'd been told, then it wouldn't be possible to complain about him not being here, would it?

Got it in one. There may be hope for you yet.

Spike · July 19, 2012, 07:52:54 AM

I take it I'm not reading spoilers? Someone clue me in to when I start participating again.

Kaelik · July 19, 2012, 09:38:32 AM

Spike, your skills are wrong.

You have 14 ranks in a bunch of things, but 13 is the maximum for a level 10 character.

Also, you have the wrong attribute I think, for several things.

Profession, Spot, and Listen are based on Wisdom, not Int.

How do you want to do treasure? Just trust fectin to roll up a standard parcel?

EDIT: Spike, would you be willing to run this multiple times with different monsters? There was an earlier conversation about using other Demons or Devils besides the Bone Devil, and when I looked at other ones I really wanted to show some of them too, but obviously I'm also pretty keen on the Bone Devil.

So would you be willing to try it 4-5 times with different Demons/Devils?

Spike · July 19, 2012, 11:10:51 AM

Quote from: Kaelik;561878Spike, your skills are wrong.

You have 14 ranks in a bunch of things, but 13 is the maximum for a level 10 character.

You got me, copper. I'll go fix them after dinner.

QuoteAlso, you have the wrong attribute I think, for several things.

Profession, Spot, and Listen are based on Wisdom, not Int.

I'm pretty sure profession won't come up in 'play', and the only character with spot and listen has Alertness. If you want to fine tooth comb it again, you'll see a +2 wis bonus combined with a +2 bonus from Alertness equals a +4 bonus, which is what he has. But yes, I need to lower the skill one point anyway.

QuoteHow do you want to do treasure? Just trust fectin to roll up a standard parcel?

Why would I care about treasure? This is Thunderdome!

QuoteEDIT: Spike, would you be willing to run this multiple times with different monsters? There was an earlier conversation about using other Demons or Devils besides the Bone Devil, and when I looked at other ones I really wanted to show some of them too, but obviously I'm also pretty keen on the Bone Devil.

So would you be willing to try it 4-5 times with different Demons/Devils?

Sure.

I'd still like to know if there are spoiler tags that aren't meant for me up in here, but then again, I'm kinda lazy so going back to read old hidden posts sounds a bit too much like work either way.

Kaelik · July 19, 2012, 11:38:06 AM

EDIT: Do you want the XP for permancies/other spells/whatever? I offered it to you in my last post, and you haven'e said anything. I think it's sensible to assume that where they are worth the money/XP for PCs to have them.

Quote from: Spike;561890I'm pretty sure profession won't come up in 'play', and the only character with spot and listen has Alertness. If you want to fine tooth comb it again, you'll see a +2 wis bonus combined with a +2 bonus from Alertness equals a +4 bonus, which is what he has. But yes, I need to lower the skill one point anyway.

Your Rogue has a Wisdom of 10, so how is he getting a +2 Wisdom bonus?

Quote from: Spike;561890Why would I care about treasure? This is Thunderdome!

You would care about the treasure because it is being used to kill you.

To quote the DMG under Monsters with Treasure: "Generate their reasure according to their monster entry and the rules under Building a Treasure, below. This may generate more items that the monster can use, and that's fine (see Custom Treasures, below)."

Custom treasures of course, just talks about making treasure specifically usuable for boss monsters, but that's not relevant here. So as I said, do you just want to trust fectin to roll up a treasure?

Quote from: Spike;561890I'd still like to know if there are spoiler tags that aren't meant for me up in here, but then again, I'm kinda lazy so going back to read old hidden posts sounds a bit too much like work either way.

I have two spoiler tags, the first one is a response to fectin's map, so you shouldn't look at that. The second one is a statement about using other monsters besides the Bone Devil, but you probably also shouldn't look at that, even though I now have specified the use of other monsters.

Spike · July 19, 2012, 11:56:32 AM

Quote from: Kaelik;561894EDIT: Do you want the XP for permancies/other spells/whatever? I offered it to you in my last post, and you haven'e said anything. I think it's sensible to assume that where they are worth the money/XP for PCs to have them.

Not too worried about it.

QuoteYour Rogue has a Wisdom of 10, so how is he getting a +2 Wisdom bonus?

I dunno. Apparently I can't read my own typing.

QuoteYou would care about the treasure because it is being used to kill you.

To quote the DMG under Monsters with Treasure: "Generate their reasure according to their monster entry and the rules under Building a Treasure, below. This may generate more items that the monster can use, and that's fine (see Custom Treasures, below)."

That sounds like something between you and fectin. I'm just the PCs here.

QuoteI have two spoiler tags, the first one is a response to fectin's map, so you shouldn't look at that. The second one is a statement about using other monsters besides the Bone Devil, but you probably also shouldn't look at that, even though I now have specified the use of other monsters.

M'kay. Saves me some strain I guess. I'll go back and change my entries.