Quote from: Bobloblah;556646Funny...that's how I feel waiting for Legends and Labyrinths.

You and me both.

I've contacted a third round of illustrators for the pieces that need to be part of the book to fulfill backer rewards. If these fall through, I'll be contacting the pertinent backers to see about refunding the money they paid for customized illustrations to be part of the book and pushing ahead.

Ironically, all the other art for the book came back just fine. But the first two guys I contracted for the pieces I actually need, legally speaking, have flaked out sequentially. Now I'm trying several at once and if at least some of them come back, we'll be good to go.

Quote from: Marleycat;556664This is why this exercise won't actually prove anything despite how fascinating it is to watch.  Far better than dickwaving at least.  But the problem is theorycraft is in a perfect vacuum, real games and characters are organic and far more than dice rolls for spells and items and WBL.

This, BTW, is why I specifically reached out to various communities to get actual character sheets for PCs that had been leveled up through actual play in order to playtest L&L's monster creation system and the like.

I'd offer up some of them here, but there's a lot of multiclassing, a lot of PrCs, and a lot of non-core stuff.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;556708You and me both.

I've contacted a third round of illustrators for the pieces that need to be part of the book to fulfill backer rewards. If these fall through, I'll be contacting the pertinent backers to see about refunding the money they paid for customized illustrations to be part of the book and pushing ahead.

Ironically, all the other art for the book came back just fine. But the first two guys I contracted for the pieces I actually need, legally speaking, have flaked out sequentially. Now I'm trying several at once and if at least some of them come back, we'll be good to go.



This, BTW, is why I specifically reached out to various communities to get actual character sheets for PCs that had been leveled up through actual play in order to playtest L&L's monster creation system and the like.

I'd offer up some of them here, but there's a lot of multiclassing, a lot of PrCs, and a lot of non-core stuff.

Well, in that case I am interested.  Sue me I never clicked on your link I just thought you only blogged.

What game engine is the base? I'm lazy I'd rather you explain your game than me trying to parse it since your here.

God, I have horrible grammar and punctuation I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say. At least I won't be banned for it. But I do apologize Justin.

Quote from: Spike;556528And for flavor: Gareth Three-Fingers the Fifth, ironically, has all his fingers but a peg leg and one eye. No mechanical changes. He is just that sneaky on that damn peg leg. Its heroic, see?

Good stuff. The 'Ninjas, Pirates and Dinosaurs' issue of Dragon magazine had a bunch of "Pirate Grafts" including stuff like Peglegs of Dancing and magical hooks and the like. Great bit of justification for why pirates often were missing bits, despite Regenerate being easily available in 3.5, though sadly non-core. I'm quite fond of the idea of using the Fiend Folio weapon graft rules to replace a hand with a waraxe as well.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;556742Good stuff. The 'Ninjas, Pirates and Dinosaurs' issue of Dragon magazine had a bunch of "Pirate Grafts" including stuff like Peglegs of Dancing and magical hooks and the like. Great bit of justification for why pirates often were missing bits, despite Regenerate being easily available in 3.5, though sadly non-core. I'm quite fond of the idea of using the Fiend Folio weapon graft rules to replace a hand with a waraxe as well.

You watch way too much Evil Dead, yup!:D

Gah, a 3.x CharOp Thread!

Stab IT! Stab! STAB! Stabbity! STAB!!!

Quote from: jadrax;556778Gah, a 3.x CharOp Thread!

Stab IT! Stab! STAB! Stabbity! STAB!!!

 But it's entertaining from a certain perspective. Dance my monkees, dance!

Quote from: Wolf, Richard;556624Well, even excluding prestige classes a more realistic 'rogue' build would be something like Ranger 2/Rogue 8 for someone shooting for high level rogue abilities.  Not that there aren't rogue oriented PrC that get Sneak Attack, the number one reason most players would be compelled to stick with the class.



I thought the whole purpose of this brouhaha was to take things out of the realm of theorycraft into the realm of actual play, and I don't think that is what is happening ITT, since the characters are still basically theorycrafted ones that wouldn't be seeing actual play in the first place.

Why I hate 3e
I mean the 4 characters could all be cleric zen archers that polymorph into arrow demons daily..... might defeat the point of the exercise though.

Quote from: jibbajibba;556810Why I hate 3e
I mean the 4 characters could all be cleric zen archers that polymorph into arrow demons daily..... might defeat the point of the exercise though.

Just going by my memoroes of running 3e, I am pretty confident a properly optimized party would make short work of the bone devil. I recall the CRs being way too low once folks started getting on the character optimization boards and figuring these things out on their own.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;556821Just going by my memoroes of running 3e, I am pretty confident a properly optimized party would make short work of the bone devil. I recall the CRs being way too low once folks started getting on the character optimization boards and figuring these things out on their own.

Again the phrase CharOp just makes my skin crawl ......

Quote from: Marleycat;556714What game engine is the base? I'm lazy I'd rather you explain your game than me trying to parse it since your here.

If BECMI were 100% compatible with AD&D, then L&L would be to 3.5 what BECMI is to AD&D.

100% compatibility means you can pick up any supplement for 3.5 and use it in L&L without any conversion whatsoever. It also means that you could, for example, play a PC from L&L for five levels and then decide you want to start using some of the more complex customization options from the full 3.5 ruleset and you could do that.

You can also take the monster creation system for L&L (which is a simple four step process you can do on-the-fly at the table -- pick CR, select powers, assign ability scores, and pick skills) and use it to generate stat blocks that would work in your 3.5 campaign (although they wouldn't be 3.5 "legal" they would be balanced).

It's meant to be a game for those who like the core of 3.5 but hate the complexity of it. And it's designed specifically to make it easy for you to use it as a base and then add in whatever added complexity/customization you want from the 3.5 ruleset.

I've written a number of blog posts which go into more detail. Those can be found here: http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/tag/legends-labyrinths

End of thread-crapping.

In the interest of contributing: Although the actual character sheets are universally inapplicable to the standards of this thunderdome (because of heavy multiclassing and PrC usage), I realized that it might be interesting to look at some applicable equipment lists from this level range:

Sorcerer: phylactery of undead turning, amulet of health +2, antitoxin (x2), antitoxin vs. drow sleep poison, arrow (x20), backpack, mithral buckler +1 (death ward), case (x2), mithral chain shirt of greater stamina +3, chalk, chest, cloak of charisma +4, gloves of dexterity +4, goodberry, ink, inkpen, kukri, composite longbow +2 (+2), potion of cure moderate wounds, potion of cure serious wounds, belt pouch (x2), neck pouch, spell component pouch, ring of protection +2, lesser metamagic rod (maximize), scrolls (disintegrate, enervation, mass hold person, power word stun, protection from energy, spell turning, teleport, true strike), wand of fear (6 charges), wand of hold person (28 charges), wand of lightning bolt (CL 9, 17 charges)

Fighter: dwarven waraxe +2 (blessed, cold iron, flaming), gloves of strength +2, boots of springing and striding, bag of holding (type 2)

Paladin ('cause that fighter is kinda weird): +2 full plate, +2 heavy shield, ring of deflection +2, potion of cure serious wounds, potion of protection from evil, potion of haste, scroll of deathward, scroll of raise dead, scratchbook from Tsuto Kaijitsu, crowbar, chalk, grappling hook, hemp rope (x2), backpack, waterskin, bedroll, sack, flint & steel, hooded lantern, oil flasks (x3), wooden holy symbol

Cleric: hammer of Pelor +2 (good-aligned, disruptive), composite longbow +2 (+2), +1 longsword, +1 mithril full plate, wand of restoration (4 charges), rod of cure light wounds, slippers of spider climb, star of valor (+3 Diplomacy vs. nobles in Cauldron), crest of Cauldron (20% discount in Cauldron shops), white shield (+5 Diplomacy in Cauldron), scroll of spiritual armor (x3), potion of invisibility

Rogue (13th level): masterwork shortsword, masterwork cold iron dagger, +2 dagger, silvered dagger, masterwork shortbow, +2 mithral chain, masterwork buckler, fog-cutting goggles (see through magic fogs and mists clearly), medusa mask (1/day--flesh to stone, DC 15), wand of magic missiles (27 charges), potion of cure light wounds (x2), two rings of uselesness, fancy gloves, fancy cloak, fancy vestments, wands of pointing (x3), potion of vile-tasting harmlessness, neverburning torch (aka, "the stick), two necklaces of "hang-yourself-on-a-natural-one), daggers (x2), starknives (x2), darts (x4), war razor, silvered dagger, smokestick, thunderstone, tanglefoot bag, sap, masterwork lockpicks, small steel mirror

Thanks Justin I am going to read the linksies to make a final decision but it looks good so far.

Okay. Still no word from Kaelik, but I'm really curious how this goes. Would you still be up for it if I just ran the Bone Devil?

I've got no moral objection, though I suspect Kaelik will learn nothing from it.

Lets get to some devil slaying!