Well put apparition, but your words are wasted. He's not actually interested in the debate, he's just trolling me.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditGiven that you've come here from Trolling on my Blog because you were upset that I humiliated your idiotic ramblings in yet another blog, and you're obviously here only to cause trouble, I'm still strongly considering what to do with you.

I think you're totally misreading him, but then again I think he thinks he agrees with GNS but that he doesn't, really.

Quote from: apparition13Which direction? Towards the hideout, because that's where safety lies? Away from the hideout, so as not to lead the PCs to their compatriots? Home to mommy?

To paraphrase the rule in question, pretty much whatever the player wants. "Target has DCV 0 and will nearly always follow commands." (p170, Champions, 4th ed)

QuoteYou're confusing "adjudicated" with "determined". jdrakeh means in traditional RPGs, it is the GM, and only the GM, who tells you what happens once the system determines the result of an action. (Adjudicate was perhaps not the best choice of words, but it seemed pretty easy to parse his meaning to me.) A couple of examples might help.

Look, I do get this. I just rather object to the suggestion that any player input to adjudication of system results means that the game ceases to be a role-playing game. There is absolutely no justification for such claims whatsoever.

Quote from: apparition13Since in many non-traditional games players also get to do that, it seems to me reasonable to ask whether these non-traditional games are in some part meant to allow GMs to be players while still getting some of what they enjoy about GMing out of the game.

I think that's a good idea and needs to be explicitly stated. After all, many and possibly most GMs have been doing it for years anyhow with their favourite NPCs.

Quote from: lev_lafayetteTo paraphrase the rule in question, pretty much whatever the player wants. "Target has DCV 0 and will nearly always follow commands." (p170, Champions, 4th ed)

Sorry, wasn't looking at the at the rule. You said "running away like little girls time", which I took to mean flight, so I provided options the GM might consider for running away.

As for "Target has DCV 0 and will nearly always follow commands.", that is what the last example I provided...

Quote"I show her the photograph of her children, yelling "If you don't do what I want, I'll do to them what I just did to your maid!"" (not all PCs are nice.)

System: intimidation roll, victim surrenders.

"Horror and fear on her face, she slumps to her knees, weeping "what do you want me to do?"

"Her eyes downcast, her shoulders slump in resignation. "What do you want me to do?" she whispers."

"Her eyes fierce, fists clenched so tight you can see blood dripping to the floor as her nails cut into her palms, a single tear slides glistens on her right cheek as she hisses through clenched teeth "what do you want me to do?""

specifically refers to. The system determines the mechanical results, "Target has DCV 0 and will nearly always follow commands.", but the GMs narration tells you what that means.

QuoteLook, I do get this. I just rather object to the suggestion that any player input to adjudication of system results means that the game ceases to be a role-playing game. There is absolutely no justification for such claims whatsoever.

I've never said that, and I don't think anyone, even RPGPundit would say that. What he and others (not including me, I'm pretty live and let live on the topic) don't seem to like, is games that explicitly set out to do that. They like the traditional GM/player dynamic and division of labor.

Quote from: lev_lafayetteI think that's a good idea and needs to be explicitly stated.

I'm pretty sure I did that in post 1 of this thread, and I'm fairly certain that was the topic of discussion for several posts until this diversion occured. I'd appreciate it if you would look over the beginning section of the thread, and give your input. I'd be interested in how you might respond to my post #12. I thought droog's reply was particullarly helpful.

QuoteAfter all, many and possibly most GMs have been doing it for years anyhow with their favourite NPCs.

To me, this is a separate question, and one not without its own pitfalls (namely "pet" GMPCs that steal the spotlight). Fell free to expand on this point, should you so wish.