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Author Topic: The World's Largest Dungeon  (Read 2247 times)

Sacrificial Lamb

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The World's Largest Dungeon
« on: June 24, 2013, 02:43:14 AM »


This thread discusses our experiences with adventure module known as "the World's Largest Dungeon". imurrx is the new DM, and here's his post from the "Kramerland" thread...

http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=13052&page=56

Quote from: imurrx

I have never DM (or GM if you prefer) before. I have always wanted to and have been mulling when and how I should do so. Well, it has passed.

Since Sacrificial Lamb moved over the past week, his life has been anything but normal. While I has helping him with the move, I talked about GM'ing. He was all for it and relived because he has so many thing to focus on. Also, since he hardly every places as a PC, this should be a fine respite.

Now, I have bought two adventure modules. Now, keep in mind that I picked these two larger modules so we can all alternate as DM's. The first one I bought is the Worlds Largest Dungeon. I figured that this would be a decent one to learn the whole mechanics of running the mechanics of the game with out too much plot and roleplaying for NPC. The other one was The Shackled City. I would rather play that one if I can get the handle better and we are happy with our PCs. The goal is to play one of these goals and rotate DM so we all do not get stuck.

Now, I had a few ideas how I would handle my first session. Everything I had wanted to do had failed or did not execute.

I am sure Sacrificial Lamb will do the journal of what happened. He has always done a fine job at it. I am going to post what I did right and what I did wrong. My posts will be more or less to learn from my mistakes and to improve.

Problems I encountered

First, I had been up for the whole day. I had gone to Staples bought some supplies. I wanted to print out the map of the dungeon out on magnetic paper, cut out each room and put it on a magnetic white board. This would the characters map to show where they have been at. We had a white board, but I bought a cutting board, X-acto knife #2, 8 sheets of magnetic paper and plain paper. I printed out the maps and proceeded to cut them out. Well, after 1 hour and 40 rooms of first 100, I stopped. I did not like how it turned out and I forgot to bring it to the session.

Second, I wanted to use Dwarven Forged dungeon tiles to handle the combat. We could not use it because Sacrificial Lamb had not finished moving and they were not readily available.

Third, we ended using 3D Virtual Table Top. It is a good app and I booted my HP Touchpad in CM9 and ran it from there (I was hoping to use my Touchpad for all reference and game docs. This was a positive point.

Fourth, we arrived latter than I though. I wanted to be at Meatlips house by 9pm and did not get there until half past. Sacrificial Lamb needed food and I can sympathize.

Fifth, I was exhausted. I had to guzzle down several cans of Diet Mountain Dew (yes diet). All the reading I have done with the WLD, I had a foggy recollection of the material.

Sixth, neither Sacrificial Lamb or Meatlips had not created characters. So they created them. That took time. We made some adjustments and looked up information for them to move the process along.

Seventh, I had decided to created a character (factotem) to help them along and move the game forward if we hit a snag. Unfortunately, my minmax gremlin inside of me took over. More later.


Now for my screw ups.

    So, now it is 1am and we finally start, and I drew a mental block how I would begin the game and how the PC's got to the dungeon. I botched it. I had mentally drafted a script and I did not implement it at all.
    I also missed a few things how the modules handles the entrance to the dungeon. Not much impact about the game but more for flavor and only really relevant at the exit of the dungeon when the characters are at 20th level.
    As for the game mechanics, I screwed up in two glaring errors. One, I accidentally jumped the gun when Meatlips character searched for a trap and failed. I accidentally assumed the trap went off when it should have not. So when he rolled for 1.5 points of damage, I rounded down for this one time. The other error was keeping initiative when the characters encountered the dark mantle. I should have been more attentive to that.
    I did not utilize the 3 orcs the PC encountered better. I could have them talk more about what is going on here. Along with that. I could describe the rooms and the style of the dungeon better.
    Now, there were a few other errors such has keeping track of time and some other stuff I cannot post because the PC's have yet to encounter them or they are events that are to come.


What I think I did well

    I created a Google spreadsheet with an online form to enter successful encounters the PC earned XP. It worked well, BTW, you guys have 700 xp. You are close leveling up.
    The next thing I did was using 3D Virtual Table top. I think did ok when it came to moving the game along.



What to work on

    Now, for the next session. I need to reread the upcoming rooms.
    I also need to better flesh out the NPC interactions with the players
    Utilize a notebook for initiatives, time keeping, and other in game notes
    Perhaps ditch my PC. I may tone him down. He was to be a human factotum, but I made him a dopliganger instead. I will probably revert back. may be a retcon or perhaps kill him off. The players will be bringing two more characters in the dungeon (they are lagging behind) and that new factotum be a guide for the.
    Address any other issues that the player's will post here.


Sorry for the long post.

Ok, for the record, imurrx.....you did fine. It was your first time DMing, and it was late and we were tired. I wasn't feeling too fantastic that night due to stress from the move. So...not a problem.

It took us time to get rolling, as we were micro-managing during the character creation process....and we were just really tired that night. We created new 1st-level characters, and when the session began, we had this:

=Player Characters=

* Arix (imurrx): Arix is a 1st-level Doppelganger Factotum. He disguises himself as a non-descript Human, and his true origins are a mystery, though he identifies himself to strangers by the name of "Iago".

* Snowden (MeatLips): Snowden is a 1st-level Drow Rogue. He is a skilled trapsmith, and despite his physical frailty, possesses near-supernatural agility.

* Fergus (Me): Fergus is a 1st-level Human Fighter. He is a fleet-footed warrior carrying an enormous tower shield with a goat's head emblem on it. He is a passable swordsman and locksmith.

To be continued...
« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 07:59:31 PM by Sacrificial Lamb »

imurrx

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« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2013, 06:23:21 AM »
I noticed two more error.  First one had to deal with the Darkmantle you faced and how I handled the environment. The second was room conditions. I elected not to do any random encounters.

I read up on the next three sections of this map. I have a general idea now what lies a head for the next couple of sessions.  I also need to reduce the distractions by focusing 100% on the NPCs. Also, my tablet in webOS mode is what I will be using. We will need to load the map on your iPad or meatlips Xoom (Or I could use my son's iPad). One other thing is I may have some of the PC come across maps showing just local sections of the dungeon to help with that. I sill think we need to use the dwarven forge to keep combat in check.

After reading 50+ rooms, 25+ pages, and looking up various information in the srd, I am exhausted. I will need to reread the materials and

Now, I need to go to bed to get ready for my week of overnight shifts. I am off to bed.
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imurrx

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« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2013, 12:39:42 AM »
I am still waiting for your detailed logs about the campaign thus far. Sac of Lamb. And you Meatlips, I thought you have roasted me by now.

Anyways.

Here is my self review of last two sessions.

The second session we did not play once again because the two of you were still making characters. The third session we were tardy starting because of one more character being made.

I felt I did a better getting the characters to the dungeon and in. I also think I did a better managing combat and the overall mechanics.

Now the errors and issues I made
  • I may have miss judged the distance of the feindish orcs could see was wrong.
  • Now for that initiative between the players and F.Orcs was fair, except I think I should have the players do a spot check to see that the spears were being drawn while the characters were just jibber jabbering.
  • The other issue was the distance and radius when sleep was cast. I believe that some of the orcs were out of the 10ft radius of the spell.
  • The other issue I had was the initiative of the two fendish rat swarm. I do not know if I should have the 2nd rat swam reroll for initiative since the initial swarm was defeated before the 2nd one entered the room.
  • I need to keep a better record of all the characters stats and flaws
  • The players want me to get more into character when playing out NPC (will do).

 
What was tried
  • I cut up the dungeon on magnetic inject paper and placed it on the white board so the players have a map where they have gone. It is a long tedious process and that it does not look as good as I thought.
  • I also used the Sacrificial Lambs Dwarven Forged tiles. They look nice, but tying to rearrange them was a pain. It was helpful but not practical.
  • We used dice as counters but that ended up being awkward. I had asked to for Lamb to dig up some of his figurines but is still unpacking from his move. Did not work out smoothly.
  • I ditched the laptop and ran the entire session from my webos powered HP Touchpad. It worked quite well. Had the necessary PDF open, maps, webpages.
  • The google docs form I made for tracking monsters per encounter works out well. eventually i would like to have a public sheet that people can see the body count and have it updated automatically.


This is what I have planned for this week.

  • I bout a 4x3 grid magnetic white board for $97 delivered. With dry erase markers it ran another $15
  • I have printed out magnetic counters of up coming monsters. I will need to create counters for the player characters.
  • The grid 4x3 board will be for maps and the other 3x2 white board that Sacrificial Lamb has will be used as a status board for initiative, mosters. player info and other elevant information.


Did I miss anything?
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Opaopajr

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« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2013, 04:12:32 AM »
What system are you running?

Have you tried a chess/checkerboard for quick grid measurements? That and a mini tape measure (or colored string: alternating red/white per inch or chessboard square) and you should be fine. Works in a pinch when moving.

Easiest advice is focus on room monsters, group them into logical factions, and figure out their motivations (and possibly routine movement).

Grouping monsters into factions helps give meaning to any regional weird spread. And a singular faction is easier to compare and contrast with NPC monster motivations. "Why does the troll help the orcs of this floor? Perhaps he can strike a better deal with the PC party?"

It also helps in familiarizing with their stat lines. 3e and other games can get ugly with monster stat lines. The faster you can generalize what's important from a large group of same monsters, the faster you can process combat.

As GM you're going to need all the extra mental processing power you can. I'm sure you're familiar with wandering monster tables, reaction tables, morale, etc. All those are automated programs to save you time while keeping the game dynamic for players. They form the framework for you to generate other tools to delegate your GM prep work and improv. Great lessons imbedded within those tools.
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jibbajibba

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« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2013, 05:37:56 AM »
I haven't used floorplans and minis for ages but Opaopajr's ideas are all sound as are things like cutting out "blast templates" on clear acetate sheets of various standard areas of effects just to see what gets caught int eh area.

I really wouldn't worry about print to print out eh dungeon on sheet and cutitng it out. that is one of those things that always seemed like a good idea but in play looks a bit crap and takes about 40 hours to prep for a 5 hour game.

If you want things to look great then with paractice you can get there but a battlemap and a marker are 90% as effective for 1% of the effort which means you can get more familiar with running monsters, creating atosphere and pacing that you can't do with a map anyway. If you want to make things pop a bit then a few dungeon props and some decent minis can make a battlemap close to being as good as anything. I used to use kids building blocks or Jenga block to lay ut walls sometiems.

The most important thing is don't sweat it. If you got the HPs wrong the area of a spell or whatever just keep the action rolling and keep going. After the event if you want to own up to making a mistake find but int eh heat of battle just roll over any flaws if you spot em. The players will prefer a fight with orcs that flows and has action and imagination and sparks a bit to a dull by the numbers battle where the numbers are all correct and all rules are obeyed to the letter. As you get more experienced you can sort that stuff but no one comes back to a GM because they are really good at tracking NPC hit points and combat bonuses they come back because the DM is exciting and engaging.  
The exception is killing PCs if you are about to Kill a PC then make sure you have all the numbers right. No one likes a do over on a PC death because the DM rolled 3d8 not 3d6 or misread a power or whatever.

keep going its not rocket science you are playign a game with your mates if it turns into a chore or a PITA you may as well stop :)
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Opaopajr

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« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2013, 11:41:44 AM »
Ooh, acetate blast templates! That brings back memories... Only problem is labeling the measurements and increments upon the template. Staring at clear plastic forms and forgetting what it meant is funny only in retrospect.

And yes, one of the best lessons I learned about GMing was the imagination has an unlimited special effects budget. What you can prep for days can often be replaced with a larger vocabulary of adjectives. The goal is a shared consciousness of an imaginary time and space; words are the fastest conveyer of such info, and the brain is the most elaborate FX team to realize such info.

That said, listen to jibba's latter advice especially. Keep things moving. Shrug off your technical errors (though do keep a sharper eye on damage rolls). Roll with the "errors" like a painter and incorporate them as color. Give your players trust and expect trust in return, reflecting upon how 'to err is human.'

Eventually the confidence from practice will birth a fluidity. Like any art, the secret is to do, and often. Techniques and schools of thought will soon melt away into your own style.
Just make your fuckin' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what's interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
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Sacrificial Lamb

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« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2013, 03:04:22 AM »
I should have posted here a long time ago...

We're using the D&D 3.5 rules, though we filch some material from D&D 3.0 and Pathfinder. We have a very large party of adventurers, because we figured that there'd be some casualties. We haven't had any yet. Here's the current character roster:

=Player Characters=

* Arix (imurrx): Arix is a 1st-level gestalt Doppelganger Factotum. He disguises himself as a non-descript Human, and his true origins are a mystery, though he identifies himself to strangers by the name of "Iago".

* Snowden (MeatLips): Snowden is a 1st-level Dark Elven (Drow) Rogue. He is a skilled trapsmith, and despite his physical frailty, possesses near-supernatural agility.

* Fergus (me): Fergus is a 1st-level Human Fighter. He is a fleet-footed warrior carrying an enormous tower shield with a goat's head emblem on it. He is a passable swordsman and locksmith.

* Biff Higgins (me): Biff is a 1st-level Halfling Beguiler armed with an oversized broadbladed shortsword, and a shortbow....both of which are too large and unwieldy for him to use properly. He's a manipulator of some lesser enchantments, as well as some minor healing magicks. Biff is bold, as well as a compulsive gambler, carrying a deck of cards on his person at all times. At this point, he's just out adventuring to stave off the boredom he felt in the farmlands outside of Delzar.

* Giles (Meatlips): Giles is a 1st-level Half-Celestial Human Cleric. He's young, curious, and still doesn't know what to make of this "World's Largest Dungeon".

* Gwendolyn Silvaras (me): Gwendolyn is a 1st-level Elven Healer, with the "magic-blooded" template. She's young, and a little naive. However, she is also beautiful, intelligent and a crack shot with a bow. Most importantly, however, she's a gifted healer, and is searching for a way to share this gift with others. In the "World's Largest Dungeon", she'll likely have that opportunity...

* Frank Darkwood (me): Frank is a 1st-level Human Cloistered Cleric. He's a bit of a wandering scholar, well-versed in just a little bit of everything. Despite this, he's mostly quiet and unassuming, thus usually keeping to himself. Take note that he possesses the ability to both command and repair constructs, though he is largely untested in the field. Frank is garbed in a dark cloak, and usually carries a quarterstaff. He also carries a deck of cards, and will sometimes be playing a game or two with Biff.....but right now, he's just trying to survive the dungeon.

* Tankred (me): Tankred is a 1st-level Warforged Fighter....with a hulking, metallic body. Most people just call him, "Tank". He carries a bunch of large weapons on his person, but no armor, as his entire body is armor...

Tankred is incredibly loyal to his friends, and will not retreat if they are in danger. Otherwise, he's pretty matter-of-fact and says very little. He possesses a command word, which acts as a built-in fail-safe in case he ever becomes a chronic pain-in-the-ass. This is essentially the "command word" flaw from the d&d wiki online. The command word changes every day, and will be one word from this list...

Roll d12 randomly:

(1.) obediemus
(2.) pareo
(3.) optempero
(4.) ausculto
(5.) satisfacio
(6.) exaudio
(7.) secor
(8.) oboedio
(9.) obedio
(10.) parere
(11.) obtempero
(12.) obaudio

Now then, a couple more things...

I think that Meatlips would strongly prefer to use a swordsman of some type. He doesn't seem particularly comfortable using a Cleric, because it's necessary to keep track of the Cleric's various spells and powers. When I brought up the Fighter variant in Dragon magazine (Kensai/Sword Saint), he seemed very interested.

However, I think that this Fighter variant is a little weak (as are most Fighters in D&D 3.x), so I've been writing up a new class for Meatlips called the Sword Saint. I'll have it up here soon, and then you guys can check it out. It's not as powerful as a fully-maxed out Cleric or Druid, but it's still better than a Fighter.

For the record, you'll note that I'm using a couple Fighters myself, even though Fighters suck. I don't really much care, and can have fun with 'em anyway, but I think Meatlips will require something a little less gimpy.

More to come soon...
« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 04:58:20 AM by Sacrificial Lamb »

imurrx

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« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2013, 03:19:22 AM »
Thanks for the advice.

We are using 3.5 mostly WotC stuff.

The one thing I made sure and will keep is to move the story along and not let the players get bogged down. There were a couple of times where the mechanics started to slow down, I just made sure it worked to move the story along and that the players were enjoying it. Last thing is a quagmire in technicalities.

That's where the whole grid thing is a potential pit fall. I went with the grid whiteboard for two reasons. One for the players to see the room dimensions. The second is to know where everyone on the map for combat , traps, searching, and other stuff (got a drow an need to see if he passes  with in 5' feet.

I did not think of that tape quick grid. It sounds like a good idea in a pinch. We had a battlemap a while ago while someone accidentally used a permanently marker on it. We could never get the green out with out erasing the grid lines.

This is the whiteboard I bought. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4664487&SRCCODE=WEBGOOPA&cm_mmc_o=mH4CjC7BBTkwCjCV1-CjCE&gclid=CL-FlPT4tbgCFUqk4AodU3YAog The dots are actually 1" and it's magnetic grip is pretty good. My kids have been having fun with it (hid the Sharpies). Bought 12 different color thick pens and 6 different color thin pens.

I will be printing out the monsters on magnetic paper and throwing them on the board and moving them. The plan is as we move every couple of rooms or when we run out of space on the board is to erase continue.

Now for the monsters, this campaign does have everything laid out and the monsters are all grouped appropriately. I have been using the random encounter table, but I need to keep a better track of time to roll.

The other thing that is kinda an issue I need to work on is room conditions. Need to work on that more.  It's more of a mental tracking thing.
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imurrx

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« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2013, 03:26:17 AM »
Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;671484
* Giles (Meatlips): Giles is a 1st-level Human Cleric. He's young, curious, and still doesn't know what to make of this "World's Largest Dungeon".


He is also a Half-Celestial using the adjustment from Book of Exhalted Deeds. He has the strongest connection to the dungeon because of his lineage. That remains to be played out.
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imurrx

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« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2013, 03:28:41 AM »
Oh btw, we are gaming Friday. You should come by my house Wednesday to check out the whiteboard.
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Sacrificial Lamb

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« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2013, 05:05:50 AM »
Quote from: imurrx;671490
He is also a Half-Celestial using the adjustment from Book of Exhalted Deeds. He has the strongest connection to the dungeon because of his lineage. That remains to be played out.


Duly noted, so I edited my entry for Giles.

Quote from: imurrx
Oh btw, we are gaming Friday. You should come by my house Wednesday to check out the whiteboard.


Sounds cool.

P.S. I'm still tempted to create a Weresheep Commoner... :D

Sacrificial Lamb

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« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2013, 02:59:44 AM »
Ok, I finished a write up of a homebrew Sword Saint class for Meatlips, while filching ideas from the various Kensai/Iaijutsu Master prestige classes. Here we go...



SWORD SAINT
The Sword Saint is a warrior completely devoted to the mastery of a single weapon, usually a sword.
Alignment: Any.
Religion: Any.
GAME RULE INFORMATION
Sword Saints have the following statistics.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d10

Class Skills
The Sword Saint's class skills are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Iaijutsu Focus (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge [local] (Int), Knowledge [nobility & royalty] (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Sword Saint.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Sword Saints are proficient in the use of all simple weapons and all sword-like weapons. “Sword-like weapons” include the following: dagger, punching dagger (katar), shortsword, longsword, bastard sword, greatsword, two-bladed sword, falchion, scimitar, rapier, kukri, sai, katana, wakizashi, shikomi-zue, ninja-to, butterfly sword, and nagamaki.

Sword Saints are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

Base Save Bonuses: Fortitude (good), Reflex (good), and Will (good).
Base Attack Bonus: Average.
Quick Draw: The Sword Saint receives the Quick Draw feat as a bonus feat at 1st-level, whether he qualifies for it or not.
Bonus Feats: He receives an additional feat at 4th-level, and every three Sword Saint levels thereafter (4th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th, and 19th) These feats must be drawn from the Sword Saint feat list shown below, and he must meet all necessary prerequisites.

These are the Sword Saint bonus feats:

Acrobatic, Acrobatic Strike [PH II], Agile, Alertness, Blind-Fight, Cleave, Combat Acrobat [PH II], Combat Awareness [PH II], Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Defensive Strike [OA], Defensive Throw [OA], Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Grappling Block [OA], Great Cleave, Greater Two-Weapon Defense [Cmp War], Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Iaijutsu Master [OA], Improved Combat Expertise [Cmp War], Improved Critical, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Grapple, Improved Initiative, Improved Sunder, Improved Trip, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Karmic Strike [OA], Ki Shout [OA], Mobility, Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting [Cmp Adv], Power Attack, Power Attack-Iaijutsu [OA], Power Critical [Cmp War], Prone Attack [OA], Roundabout Kick [OA], Single Blade Style [Dgn Cmp], Slashing Fury [PH II], Skill Focus (Iaijutsu Focus) [OA/PH], Spring Attack, Stunning Fist, Tumbling Feint [PH II], Two-Weapon Defense, Two-Weapon Pounce [PH II], Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, and Whirlwind Attack.
Flurry Attack (Ex): As the Monk's Flurry of Blows ability, but if wearing light armor or less, and fighting either unarmed or with a “sword-like weapon”.
Signature Weapon (Ex): The Sword Saint can choose one “sword-like weapon” as his signature weapon. He gains a +2 bonus to attack and damage rolls with this weapon at 1st level. This bonus increases by +1 every three levels thereafter (+3 at 4th-level, +4 at 7th-level, +5 at 10th-level, +6 at 13th-level, +7 at 16th-level, and +8 at 19th-level. This bonus is halved (rounded down) when fighting either unarmed or with other “sword-like weapons”.
Improved Unarmed Strike (Ex): At 1st-level, the Sword Saint gains the Improved Unarmed Strike feat.
Weapon Finesse (Ex): At 2nd-level, a Sword Saint may use his Dexterity modifier instead of his Strength modifier on attack rolls with his signature weapon. This works like the Weapon Finesse feat, except that it applies to any signature weapon, even if it is a weapon to which the feat normally cannot be applied.
Ki Damage (Ex): If the Sword Saint scores a hit with his signature weapon, he may choose not to roll dice to determine damage. He instead determines the normal maximum damage (not a critical hit) he can inflict, and deals that much damage to his target.

A 1st-level Sword Saint wielding a bastard sword with a 16 Strength deals 15 points of damage (10 + 3 for strength + 2 for signature weapon) when he chooses this option. Additional damage, such as from the Power Attack feat, the sneak attack class ability, or a weapon's special properties (such as frost or holy) is determined normally, and not maximized. This ability cannot be used when you roll a critical hit. The Sword Saint can use this ability once per day per class level.
Lightning Blade (Ex): A Sword Saint of 2nd-level or higher can add his Charisma modifier to his initiative checks, as well as Dexterity modifier.
Critical Wound (Ex): A Sword Saint of 2nd-level or higher can inflict extra damage with a critical hit. The damage multiplier of the Sword Saint's signature weapon is increased by 1. For example, the bastard sword has a critical multiplier of x2. If the Sword Saint uses this ability, he can increase that multiplier to x3 once per day at 2nd level. As a Sword Saint increases in level, he can use this ability more frequently. The Sword Saint must declare the use of this ability before rolling any damage dice.
Quickfooted (Ex): At 3rd-level, a Sword Saint’s land speed increases to faster than normal for his race by plus 10 feet. This benefit applies only when he is wearing no armor or light armor, and not carrying a medium or heavy load.
Ki Critical (Ex): When a Sword Saint reaches 9th-level, he gains the Improved Critical feat for free. If he already possesses this feat (or devotes a feat slot to it later), he adds an additional +2 to the threat range for his signature weapon. This +2 bonus is applied last, after any multipliers, such as those given by the Improved Critical feat or by keen weapons.
Evasion (Ex): At 9th-level, a Sword Saint can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the Sword Saint is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless Sword Saint does not gain the benefit of evasion.
Sixth Sense (Ex): When wearing light armor or less, the Sword Saint adds either his Intelligence or Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC. In addition, a Sword Saint gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th-level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five Sword Saint levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level). These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the Sword Saint is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears medium or heavy armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.
Whirlwind Attack (Ex): The Sword Saint gains this as a bonus feat at 5th-level, whether or not he meets the prerequisites. If he already possesses this feat, he may choose another feat from the list above.
Ki Whirlwind Attack (Ex): A Sword Saint of 10th-level or higher can make a Whirlwind Attack as a standard action rather than a full-round action. Only one whirlwind attack can be made per round.
Fearless (Ex): Beginning at 11th-level, a Sword Saint is immune to fear (magical or otherwise).
Sword Mastery (Ex): A Sword Saint of 13th-level or higher can use his signature weapon special abilities, and apply them to either unarmed combat or when using any other “sword-like weapon”. Attack and damage modifiers remain the same as usual, however.

TABLE 1: THE SWORD SAINT                              
Level    Special              
1____           Flurry Attack, Improved Unarmed Strike, Ki Damage, Quick Draw, Signature Weapon +2, Sixth Sense
2____           Critical Wound 1/day, Lightning Blade, Weapon Finesse
3____           Quickfooted                  
4____           Bonus Feat, Critical Wound 2/day, Signature Weapon +3
5____           Sixth Sense +1, Whirlwind Attack
6____           Critical Wound 3/day
7____           Bonus Feat, Signature Weapon +4
8____           Critical Wound 4/day
9____           Evasion, Ki Critical
10___         Bonus Feat, Critical Wound 5/day, Ki Whirlwind Attack, Signature Weapon +5, Sixth Sense +2
11___         Fearless
12___         Critical Wound 6/day
13___         Bonus Feat, Signature Weapon +6, Sword Mastery
14___         Critical Wound 7/day
15___         Sixth Sense +3
16___         Bonus Feat, Critical Wound 8/day, Signature Weapon +7
17___        
18___         Critical Wound 9/day
19___         Bonus Feat, Signature Weapon +8
20___         Critical Wound 10/day, Sixth Sense +4

P.S. I also think this class would be much more appropriate for Meatlips's other character, Lucy. It's something to consider...
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 12:07:56 PM by Sacrificial Lamb »

Bloody Stupid Johnson

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« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2013, 07:44:35 AM »
Wow...very nice class. If I can make any suggestions:

*getting a bonus feat at level 7 is evil :) BAB at that level would be +5, whereas lots of particularly sweet feats (Improved Two Weapon Fighting or Two Weapon Pounce) need a +6...they'd almost be better with a set 1 feat/4 levels.

*Signature weapon should probably be equivalent to Weapon Focus for qualifying for other feats or some such.

*Game balance wise adding +Int or +Wis to AC, on top of armour bonus may be a bit high; most of the other classes I know of that can do that, can only do it unarmoured.

Sacrificial Lamb

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« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2013, 08:21:05 PM »
Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;672308
Wow...very nice class. If I can make any suggestions:

*getting a bonus feat at level 7 is evil :) BAB at that level would be +5, whereas lots of particularly sweet feats (Improved Two Weapon Fighting or Two Weapon Pounce) need a +6...they'd almost be better with a set 1 feat/4 levels.

*Signature weapon should probably be equivalent to Weapon Focus for qualifying for other feats or some such.

*Game balance wise adding +Int or +Wis to AC, on top of armour bonus may be a bit high; most of the other classes I know of that can do that, can only do it unarmoured.


Thank you, kind sir! :) I see your point about game balance, but my reasons for making the class this way is this:

Primary casters (Bards, Clerics, Druids, Sorcerers, & Wizards) in D&D 3.x are unambiguously more powerful than the non-casters or minor casters (Barbarians, Fighters, Monks, Paladins, Rangers, & Rogues). The advantages that primary casters have over the "Warrior-type" classes can be circumvented, but it can only be done by using multiple splat books, and thinking outside the box.

The Sword Saint is a bit of a Fighter/Monk hybrid, but he's better than either class in melee combat. That isn't really saying much though, because this class still does not possess nearly as much raw power as a fully min-maxed Cleric, Druid, or Wizard. Furthermore....the Fighter in D&D 3.5 is weak. Even the Monk is only an "ok" class (though that isn't immediately obvious). "Weak" and "ok" weren't quite cutting it, so I designed a martial class that could hold it's own with primary casters for at least a little while.

Uuuugh, I'm sick and feverish right now, so it's hard for me to think clearly at the moment.

Anyway, I might not be explaining this properly, but my goal was to create a non-magical character class with some more "juice". I think I accomplished this goal, but I'd like to playtest it a bit to be sure...

Bloody Stupid Johnson

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« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2013, 09:06:33 AM »
Oh that makes sense. The problem with the AC boost specifically, in that case, might be that its +Int and a wizard (duskblade, whatever) could pick it up via multiclassing for one level.

I'd put Sword Saint as a bit stronger than regular fighter or monk without being ridiculous, but sort of within the range of what can be done with prestige classes and splatbooks, generally speaking, which is why I'd put it as a good effort.

Flurry with greatsword for instance is pretty good, but doable with Unearthed Arcana whirling rage barbarians, the saves are good but still not beyond what you can do with multiclassing, the signature weapon lets them hit slightly better than a fighter but only slightly since the sword saint has medium BAB (a net +1 at 1st level).  Quick draw, quickfooted, whirlwind all have coolness factor but I think not really uber (whirlwind as standard at level 10 is pretty good). Pretty multi-ability-dependent though.