Team Gimp vs Standard adventuring day.

Old One Eye · October 08, 2012, 06:35:59 PM

Quote from: Mr. GC;589803Ok. Post exact statblocks including all items, and we'll start.

Sorry for the slow reply, between the family & career I don't have a lot of free time. Spent my free time yesterday meeting up with old friends to join their game of Star Wars Saga.

NPCs from the 3.5 DMG, clearly a non-optimized party:

Jugs the Barbarian 7th lvl mostly wants to drink and hit things. page 113
Swordmeister the Fighter 7th lvl really, really likes his sword. page 117
Goodguy the Paladin 7th lvl wants to get Jugs off the sauce and on to the straight and narrow. page 120
Filthy Peeks the Rogue 7th lvl wants to make enough seed money to start a brothel. page 123

I trust you to make any rolls.

This Guy · October 08, 2012, 06:52:49 PM

Looks like that's settled, so I will step back. Good luck!

Mr. GC · October 09, 2012, 08:00:20 AM

Those are partial statblocks. You really want that and nothing else?

Old One Eye · October 09, 2012, 11:35:43 PM

As I have no idea where you are actually wanting to go with this, sounds fine to me.

Mr. GC · October 10, 2012, 08:23:22 AM

Quote from: Old One Eye;590464As I have no idea where you are actually wanting to go with this, sounds fine to me.

...Wow. You don't even have races selected. Ok.

So you got the Barb with 58 HP, AC 18, melee at +11, ranged at +10, saves at 6/4/3, 40 skills (unpicked), 3 feats (also unpicked), +1 breastplate, +1 melee weapon (unpicked), mundane ranged weapon (unpicked), 3,500 gold.

Fighter with 57 HP, AC 22, Melee +11, ranged +9, saves of 7/3/3, 20 skills (unpicked), 7 feats (also unpicked), +1 full plate, heavy steel shield, +1 (one handed) melee weapon (unpicked), MW ranged weapon (unpicked), 2,900 gold.

Paladin with 50 HP, AC 20, Melee +10, Ranged +7, saves of 8/3/6, 20 skills (unpicked), 3 feats (also unpicked), +1 full plate, MW heavy steel shield, +1 (one handed) melee weapon (unpicked), MW ranged weapon (unpicked), 1,900 gold.

Rogue with 34 HP, AC 19, Melee +7, Ranged +9, saves of 3/8/2, 100 skills (unpicked), 3 feats (also unpicked), +1 studded leather, +1 buckler, MW melee weapon (unpicked), MW ranged weapon (unpicked), 4,200 gold.

You're really not going to fill in any of those gaps at all?

Old One Eye · October 10, 2012, 02:27:55 PM

Quote from: Mr. GC;590527You're really not going to fill in any of those gaps at all?

Call them all human. 3.5 has a plethora of useless feats, assume they have nothing of interest there. Skills are all spent (cross-classing where necessary) on various Craft Basket Weaving, Craft Loom Weaving, Craft Silk Weaving, etc. with probably the related Profession Basket Weaver, Profession Loom Weaver, Profession Silk Weaver, etc.

Looks good to me.

Mr. GC · October 10, 2012, 03:30:28 PM

Suit yourself.

===========================

This band of merry misfits had gotten themselves hired by a certain nobleman... he was having a problem with an information broker by the name of Mr. Baddweller who had obtained some rather... sensitive information about him and his family and was holding it over his head. As he couldn't deal with that, he hired some adventurers to sort the problem out and he wants Mr. Baddweller "taken care of", which was deliberately left open ended.

He also told the group where they could find this guy... in the back of a certain alley, if you manipulated one of the barrels like so and then moved another it would slide away to reveal a SEKRIT PASSAGE...

And sure enough, that part of the story at least was true, as the barrel slid away revealing a 10 foot wide stone stairway spiraling down into the darkness.

OOC: You can retroactively ask your employer any questions you'd like provided you have not stepped into this fellow's base of operations just yet. You can also leave to purchase things (lol at a level 7 party without a single piece of adventuring gear between them) and while this will take time it should not take nearly long enough to force a time loss.

Characters: Barb with 58 HP, AC 18, melee at +11, ranged at +10, saves at 6/4/3, +1 breastplate, +1 melee weapon (unpicked), mundane ranged weapon (unpicked), 3,500 gold.

Fighter with 57 HP, AC 22, Melee +11, ranged +9, saves of 7/3/3, +1 full plate, heavy steel shield, +1 (one handed) melee weapon (unpicked), MW ranged weapon (unpicked), 2,900 gold.

Paladin with 50 HP, AC 20, Melee +10, Ranged +7, saves of 8/3/6, +1 full plate, MW heavy steel shield, +1 (one handed) melee weapon (unpicked), MW ranged weapon (unpicked), 1,900 gold.

Rogue with 34 HP, AC 19, Melee +7, Ranged +9, saves of 3/8/2, +1 studded leather, +1 buckler, MW melee weapon (unpicked), MW ranged weapon (unpicked), 4,200 gold.

Mr. GC · October 12, 2012, 09:25:54 AM

Still over there? And if not, That Guy or someone more active, care to take over here?

Bill · October 12, 2012, 04:44:30 PM

Quote from: Mr. GC;589851I see much useless threadshitting and I do not see direct comments about what is going on.

I will try to make an intelligent comment then, as the premise intrigues me.

Challenge ratings are arbitrary; there is no specific 'strength' of an enemy that is consistant from setting to setting, or campaign world to campaign world.

Frequency of encounters is arbritrary as well. Tempered by the logic of the setting, but still arbitrary.

The overall strength of a party is arbitrary. One campaign might feature 'Mighty Conanish Barbarians' another campaign might feature a band of starving refugee halfling thieves with little wealth.

I would expect the dm to provide challenges that are thematically and mechanically reasonable for any particular party.

Essentially, I don't use challenge ratings or number of encounters per day, so this is all a bit strange to me.

I have experience with Basic/1E/2E/3E/3.5/Pathfinder, 4E, and the 5E playtest.

I don't see the need for challenge ratings or number of encounters per day.

I apologize if I am missing the goal of the experiment, I am not intending to criticize or be negative.

Mr. GC · October 12, 2012, 04:52:36 PM

Quote from: Bill;591107I will try to make an intelligent comment then, as the premise intrigues me.

Challenge ratings are arbitrary; there is no specific 'strength' of an enemy that is consistant from setting to setting, or campaign world to campaign world.

Frequency of encounters is arbritrary as well. Tempered by the logic of the setting, but still arbitrary.

The overall strength of a party is arbitrary. One campaign might feature 'Mighty Conanish Barbarians' another campaign might feature a band of starving refugee halfling thieves with little wealth.

I would expect the dm to provide challenges that are thematically and mechanically reasonable for any particular party.

Essentially, I don't use challenge ratings or number of encounters per day, so this is all a bit strange to me.

I have experience with Basic/1E/2E/3E/3.5/Pathfinder, 4E, and the 5E playtest.

I don't see the need for challenge ratings or number of encounters per day.

I apologize if I am missing the goal of the experiment, I am not intending to criticize or be negative.

The goal is to illustrate that even when played down to the gimp characters and gimp parties can and will still die. There are no encounters they can handle, therefore they are unworthy of consideration and you should just continue the game as if they don't exist and ignore their sudden yet inevitable deaths.

Granted, it does not help that OOE seems to have even less respect for gimp parties than I do, and therefore whatever he does will not reflect well on them regardless. It'd be better if the person running it were actually trying, because even if there were a non zero chance of a different outcome that outcome wouldn't come with an attempt like this.

Whatever the case though this is pretty much the lowest standard possible you can meet and still be playing D&D, so anyone that can't do that can't play D&D, and the pro gimp side should really talk strategy with him or something.

Old One Eye · October 13, 2012, 06:12:25 AM

I apologize but that I have not had any free time lately. Hopefully This Guy or some other will be in better position to address the exercise.

Mr. GC · October 14, 2012, 08:51:22 AM

Doesn't look like This Guy is actually following the discussion anymore. Anyone else care to step it up, or are you unable to prove what you constantly claim?

Exploderwizard · October 14, 2012, 09:10:20 AM

Quote from: Mr. GC;589733Let me know if there's anything I missed.

Besides the entire point of roleplaying games you mean?

Bedrockbrendan · October 14, 2012, 10:23:31 AM

Quote from: Mr. GC;591400Doesn't look like This Guy is actually following the discussion anymore. Anyone else care to step it up, or are you unable to prove what you constantly claim?

I think your approach is part of the issue Mr. GC. If you start a live play test in good faith, without insults loaded into the title itself (and don't boast about how much better you think you are than other types of players), you will probably get people willing to try (hey, you may even make a few friends...people here are very forgiving of past behavior). But basically the thread is framed as "I rock and you suck, and I am going to run a scenario to prove this point".

Mr. GC · October 14, 2012, 11:04:16 AM

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;591406I think your approach is part of the issue Mr. GC. If you start a live play test in good faith, without insults loaded into the title itself (and don't boast about how much better you think you are than other types of players), you will probably get people willing to try (hey, you may even make a few friends...people here are very forgiving of past behavior). But basically the thread is framed as "I rock and you suck, and I am going to run a scenario to prove this point".

I don't think my approach is the problem. It isn't as if I just woke up one day and decided that there was this group of people called basket weavers and I loathe them with every fiber of my being. No, my shift from "most people are basically reasonable and capable of a normal discussion" to much rage about basket weavers was due to numerous direct experiences over time. And even just looking at this board and what's happened here... it's just the same thing on a smaller scale.

Anyways Team Gimp is just a snarky name. The entire premise of this board is that there is a subset of gamers called Swine, as in pigs. Hardly the place I expected someone to get offended by such things.

And this isn't about me, or you, or any specific person. This is "Some characters can play the game, some can't." and there's a whole lot of people willing to make empty, meaningless denials and almost none willing to back it up. That includes the people talking in this very thread.

Not only is "Unwilling and unable to say anything solid, because they'll be wrong." a standard basket weaver trait, it is also one that causes me to not take them at all seriously, especially since such tests have been run before and the result is invariably one of the following:

1: Basket weavers run and hide behind mods until the person or people calling for them to prove it are banned (S&S are seriously attempting this right now).
2: The test is run. The basket weaving party dies horribly. Cue an entire river of denial, in which they find any reason, however small to try and get out of the fact they lost, and the other guys and/or girls were right. (This is what I think will happen if someone does volunteer)
3: The test is run, but is interrupted somehow. Could be the basket weavers quitting, could just be a derail with irrelevant bullshit, whatever. (Look around you, it's already happening.)

Now I could just say this as well, and I'd have these neat things called facts and numbers on my side but I, unlike they am willing to back it up and give them a chance to prove me wrong. And if they thought they were actually capable of such a thing they'd jump on it... so the lack of volunteers I think is telling.

So are you volunteering then?