I've made some changes to the rules based on feedback from various forums.  The overall aim has been to simplify the rules even more.

Summary of the main changes:

1. Characters who witness an 'unspeakable horror' and fail their saving throw and lose 6 points of temporary Wisdom (as determined by a roll of 1d6) automatically lose 1 permanent point of Wisdom.

2. 'Cure Wounds' spells only heal lost constitution points (hit points, measuring only 'exhaustion,' remain unaffected by such spells).  (So using magic to heal will only be appropriate in the most serious of situations.)

3.  Loss of constitution points imposes a flat -2 penalty to all actions (assuming that the character remains conscious), instead of a variable penalty determined by the amount of damage.

4. Characters with 0 constitution points left are automatically dead.

5. Casting 'white magic' spells also causes exhaustion (identical to grey magic).

6.  Magicians may cast any spell that they have prepared any number of times per day.  However, they suffer exhaustion from each spell cast, and so will eventually fall unconscious if they keep casting spells without adequate rest.  ('Vancian' magic seemed inappropriate for the S&S genre.)

7. The rules for loss of Wisdom from casting 'black magic' have been simplified.

8. Casting spells via wands, scrolls, etc., also cause exhaustion (and, if applicable, corruption).

If casting white and grey magic has the same cost, then what's the difference?

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;307920If casting white and grey magic has the same cost, then what's the difference?

Mechanically, none.  It would be a 'flavour' distinction.

Ah, ok.

On second thought, I think that I will reduce the exhaustion cost of 'white magic' spells.

Casting a white magic spell only drains hit points = spell level (so casting a third-level white magic spell would cost 3 hit points).

Glad I was able to help.

Now, all S&W needs to do is become a paying magazine, so we can make a fortune - Or at least enough for lunch.

I thought I posted this earlier, but I don't see it.  

I'm a little worried about the ease of scroll creation here.  A day and 300 gold and a fireball.

Quote from: LordVreeg;308036...
I'm a little worried about the ease of scroll creation here.  A day and 300 gold and a fireball.

Yeah, but it costs the same exhaustion (6 hit points) and chance of corruption (since it's a 'black magic' spell) as casting fireball normally.  The only benefit of using a scroll is that you don't have to devote one of your 'spell slots' to that spell in order to cast it.

Also, as I explain in the section on 'treasure', loot should only be about 20% what it is in a normal D&D/S&W game.  So characters will have less gold to devote to scroll creation.

However, I may have to think about this.  Maybe the cost of creating grey or black magic spells should be greater ...

I think so.  I have a system and setting where scrolls are important...so I've watched PC's take advantage of stuff.

Quote from: Akrasia;307781I agree that such a discussion would be helpful, but the article is already too long, so I may forgo it, except for the point about making monsters more rare, which I should work in somewhere.

I don't think your article is too long.   S&S is an awesome subject.   Talk to Mythmere about maybe doing a 2 part article.   Maybe S&S Player Focus and then a S&S GM Focus in next issue.   I'd rather read an article that went deep with this concept than just have a basic overview.

Quote from: Akrasia;307781However, your point here does make me think that perhaps I should not allow healing spells to work with respect to lost Constitution points, or at least at a much reduced effectiveness.

Maybe Cure Light Wounds heals 1D6+1 Exhaustion and 1 CON and Cure Serious heals 3D6+3 Exhaustion and 3 CON.   Exhaustion heals easy, while actual wounds require time?    

Quote from: Akrasia;307781Also, the rules make it relatively easy for magicians to make their own scrolls.

True.  People do like making scrolls and carrying a scroll bundle fits in the genre.  Maybe there is a reason that magicians go away from civilization when writing scrolls other than not wanting to be bothered?   Maybe they have to be secluded far away from human souls to bind magic to papyrus?

Quote from: Akrasia;307781They can use ANY weapon!  It's in the description.  They just have a -1 modifier to damage done (minimum of 1) with any weapon other than dagger, staff, and darts -- unless they use my "Class-based damage" system from KS#1.

As soon as you give a negative modifier to something, most players will knock them off their mental list.   Maybe it's just that I play OD&D without the variable weapon damage so 1D6-1 is more of an issue than 1D8-1.  

Quote from: Akrasia;307781I want to keep black magic rare and dangerous.

Maybe Black Magic has an element of Wild Magic to it where it has the possibility of harming both friend and foe?  Maybe it leaves some residual effect?   Maybe it summons evil toward it?  AKA, every time you cast black magic, the GM makes a Wandering Monster roll?  

Quote from: Akrasia;307781Lots of S&S tales involve simple survival, as well as other goals (revenge, etc.).  I have in mind many Conan stories, for instance.

As I said up top, I would love to see this article expanded.   I feel you need to discuss S&S style adventuring and what kind of goals and missions you would recommend.  Especially in regards to how S&S differs from High Fantasy or Dungeon Fantasy.

Maybe just a list of possible plots (yank them from the Conan tales).

Thinking about this some more, I don't like the way that spell-casting works in my most recent version (i.e., simply causing exhaustion).

I think that I'll go with a 'spell slot' system after all, i.e., magicians can cast a number of spells per day as given by the magic-user chart (and can use a lower-level spell in a higher-level 'slot', but not vice versa).  Moreover, they can cast any spell that they know (i.e., have in their spell book).  Spells would not have to be 'prepared.'  Essentially, the magicians would cast spells the same way that sorcerers cast spells in 3e.  

I'm going to go back to 'white magic' spells not causing exhaustion ('grey' and 'black' magic spells remain unchanged in terms of exhaustion and corruption).

Quote from: Spinachcat;308060I don't think your article is too long.   S&S is an awesome subject.   Talk to Mythmere about maybe doing a 2 part article.   Maybe S&S Player Focus and then a S&S GM Focus in next issue.   I'd rather read an article that went deep with this concept than just have a basic overview.

More could definitely be said about the S&S genre.  However, I've spent too much time on this article already.  After I make the final changes tomorrow, I have to send it off.  

I may write a less 'rules-focused' article, focusing on GM advice and setting tropes, in the future.  

Quote from: Spinachcat;308060Maybe Cure Light Wounds heals 1D6+1 Exhaustion and 1 CON and Cure Serious heals 3D6+3 Exhaustion and 3 CON.   Exhaustion heals easy, while actual wounds require time?    

Something like this idea occurred to me as well.  I'll probably integrate it into the rules, especially now that I've decided to use a 'spell slot' system, instead of relying exclusively on exhaustion to limit spells cast per day.

Great stuff, Akrasia.

As an aside (for anyone), if I write up a character sheet for this rule pack, what extra stuff needs to be accommodated?

I can spot:

• White/grey/black categories in spell list
• CON damage box

Quote from: Akrasia;308112Thinking about this some more, I don't like the way that spell-casting works in my most recent version (i.e., simply causing exhaustion).

I think that I'll go with a 'spell slot' system after all, i.e., magicians can cast a number of spells per day as given by the magic-user chart (and can use a lower-level spell in a higher-level 'slot', but not vice versa).  Moreover, they can cast any spell that they know (i.e., have in their spell book).  Spells would not have to be 'prepared.'  Essentially, the magicians would cast spells the same way that sorcerers cast spells in 3e.  

I'm going to go back to 'white magic' spells not causing exhaustion ('grey' and 'black' magic spells remain unchanged in terms of exhaustion and corruption).

Now I think that perhaps it would be better to go with the 'exhaustion' system after all.  It keeps magic dangerous and unpredictable (since using a spell always has a cost -- and if the magician is hit with a sword afterwards, it could be the end for him/her).

I think I'll playtest the 'exhaustion' rules tonight.

I seem to be hung up on this one issue.  Argh!  :banghead:

Quote from: Hairfoot;308117Great stuff, Akrasia.

As an aside (for anyone), if I write up a character sheet for this rule pack, what extra stuff needs to be accommodated?

Wow.  That would be great!

Quote from: Hairfoot;308117I can spot:

• White/grey/black categories in spell list
• CON damage box

I'd love a section for 'background professions' (since I use my system for that from Fight On #5).

A section for 'special abilities' would also be helpful (but that's pretty standard, I think).

Cheers!