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Other Games, Development, & Campaigns => Design, Development, and Gameplay => Topic started by: World_Warrior on October 29, 2020, 01:10:20 AM

Title: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: World_Warrior on October 29, 2020, 01:10:20 AM
So, I was debating whether to post this, but seeing as I keep coming back to it in my head (and inspired by BoxCrayonTale’s project to retro clone the World of Darkness, I figured I would make my own topic to use as an idea board.  Anyway...


Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game was released by White Wolf in 1994, and used the same system as their then current World of Darkness products. While the concept of the creators of Vampire: The Masquerade making an arcade fighting game into a tabletop game seemed weird (and still gets confused looks from people to this day), from reading reviews and articles, and speaking with people that have played the game (sometimes in campaigns that lasted years), the system seemed to work very well… once you got accustomed to it. The combat system is rather interesting. To mimic the arcade game, combat takes place on a grid. Each character has a chosen martial arts style that the player can spend experience on to learn new techniques, and the techniques are chosen during each Round of combat secretly. Characters then act in order from lowest initiative to highest, with faster characters able to interrupt actions.

The original game has been out of print for 25 years (though there is the fan-made ‘20th Anniversary Edition’ released a few years ago). And the combat system inspired Burn Legend, an alternate setting for Exalted.

Purpose:
The concept of a “retro clone” (I use that loosely here) would be not to recreate a 100% authentic version of the original game, but to take the elements of what worked, take some of the streamlining that occurred in Burn Legend, and design an alternate version of the Storytelling System that captures that same feel as the original game.

For now, I am calling it "World Warrior" until something better comes along.

Goals:

    • Rewrite the rule system for copyright reasons
    • Create a new default setting, and possibly a starting city with adventure ideas, characters, etc.
    • Create a system to build martial arts styles and techniques and use this to rebuild all the styles and techniques from the ground up (rather than port over said items wholesale from SF).
    • Begin with a handful of techniques and build 2 styles for in-house play test purposes. Increase to 5 styles. Repeat. Final draft should have 10-20 styles.

Other Ideas to Think About:

D6 Dice Pools? Convert the dice pool from D10 to D6, both to distance the game from the Storyteller System (since there is no SRD) and because its easier to acquire D6’s than D10’s. [This isn’t something set in stone, but it IS something that I keep coming back to. For now I plan to continue forward with it being a D10 system as not to fully remove it from being a Storyteller retro clone.

Lore Sheets? Design Lore Sheets (Story Sheets?) as an addition to the game, as done in previous games Weapons of the Gods and Legends of the Wulin. Instead of acting as character knowledge and have redundant generic sheets included, each Lore Sheet would be for personal story arcs. It would still include knowledge on various specific subjects (persons, places, things, organizations, etc) but the point of them would be to have players invest in their characters and find cool things they want to do, but connecting with the setting.

Campaign World Concept
The core idea behind the game is capturing the feel of arcade fighting games from the early 90’s. I would expand this to also cover beat-em-up’s like Final Fight. The World would not be a 100% accurate depiction of our world, but rather the kind of alternate history-type world that seemed to exist in those games at the time.

Some immediate ideas:

    • Corporations that have their own private military forces, and are (usually) up to no good. (Robocop, Killer Instinct)
    • Dystopian cities with massive amounts of gangs, ninja clans, and martial arts masters (Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Final Fight, Double Dragon, etc)
    • The reason for the explosion in martial arts is due to the banning of firearms. This led to an increase in people learning martial arts. Eventually, tournaments began to be held everywhere, and businesses profited from the increased tourism.
    • Rival martial arts schools having wars in the streets, martial artists seeking legendary masters and ancient styles and techniques, cults attempting to wipe out their enemies, etc.

Martial arts styles, organizations, etc will be fictional. This is because I don’t want to have to do a pile of research on real world styles (which would probably be picked apart anyway by practicing members). The styles can also reflect the world better, and be tied into various cultures, characters, and help to flesh out the World.


Obviously, as I continue to slowly work on this, elements above will change or be discarded. I will continue to post as I tackle each section and work through how the system will proceed. For right now, I just wanted to throw this out there and see if anyone has any thoughts.
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: World_Warrior on October 29, 2020, 01:26:05 AM
As for organizational changes to the game, I would like to make everything have indexes and basic rules charts so that you don't need to skim the entire book to find what you need.

Basic Rules Chart: I would like to have a summary of the basic rules system on one page as a quick reference for those that have never played before.

Combat Rules Chart: Likewise, I would like to have a page dedicated to a summary of how combat works on a single page so that players can start there to wrap their head around how combat functions.

Technique Index: The original book had all techniques grouped by their type, and then alphabetical within those sections... This made it a pain to look up. Rather, I would like to reorganize it so that there are boxed text that list the techniques within their types, but then just have all techniques within alphabetical order. The Boxed Text would have the page number for each technique for quick reference then. Just something that bugged me about the original book.

There would also be quick reference charts for character creation, lore sheets (if I include them in the game), and really, anything else I can think of.

One section that would definitely need an overhaul is the gamemaster section. The original doesn't do much in terms of helping you figure out how to make long-lasting campaigns. So, once I nail the initial World design, writing a larger chapter on just HOW to create stories to tell in this world will be important.
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: World_Warrior on October 29, 2020, 03:58:57 AM
This post is for the Attributes. I renamed some of them, though it still follows the basic system of the original game. Ratings slightly changed, but doesn’t affect the overall system.

Attribute & Skill Ratings

1-2 (Average): Ordinary people have these ratings in their attributes. This also represents those starting out in skills.

3 (Competent): Most people have some skills that fall into this category. Indicates further training of attributes or skills.

4 (Outstanding): Above average. A born athlete, a top scientist, veteran soldier.

5 (Exceptional): Characters with these traits have the highest possible attributes for ordinary people, or are considered the best they can possibly be.

6-8 (Legendary): While not ordinarily obtainable by normal human beings, the characters of World Warrior can attain these ranks through determination and training. This is the realm of the ultimate warriors, and typically your deeds will be spread throughout the region, if not the world (whether you want them to or not). By this time, warriors will seek you out to be students.


Physical Attributes

Strength: Physical strength. Adds to damage rolls.

Dexterity: Speed, reflexes, and manual dexterity.  Usually added for attack rolls.

Endurance: Health and stamina. Rolled against damage to reduce hits taken.

Social Attributes

Charisma: Personality and charm.

Intrigue: Use to bluff, influence, or otherwise deceive others.

Presence: Appearance and appeal.

Mental Attributes

Intelligence: Memory and ability to learn.

Perception: Ability to perceive your surroundings. The 5 senses.

Wisdom: sharpness of mind. Your ability to not be deceived.


Notes:
     
    • So the obvious issue, is that the physical attributes are more important in this game than probably other WW products. That goes without saying, considering this is a martial arts fighting game.
    • While it could lead to some players dumping all their points into physical stats (even with the 7/5/3 allocation that Street Fighter uses) I think having extra examples of well-rounded characters, and plenty of usages for the other attributes (as a roleplaying game should have) could cut down on power gaming. Though, I don’t find it to be the worst thing ever.  Again, its a fighting game.
    • Perhaps having certain techniques use other attributes would help. Or connect into learning techniques. Just as an ‘off-the-top-of-my-head’ idea, having Intelligence rolls used to learn new techniques (maybe determining how long it takes to learn the technique) would help to making at least that attribute more useful.


Next, I will be working on the basic skills. There will be 18 basic skills in the game (same number as SF), with blank spaces to add. I will be going over those skills, and coming up with ideas on how to expand their usefulness. Again, this is all just me laying out ideas and brainstorming how to bring the system together, and looking at any issues players have had with the game over the last 25 years.

The largest section will be the combat system, which will be a future post.
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: World_Warrior on October 29, 2020, 06:02:45 AM
So, here is my initial list of 18 skills (by now, I think it is obvious that I am writing shorthand for descriptions, rather than what the actual prose will be). I took out some of the skills from the original game that I felt weren't as useful, renamed a few others, and added some new or alternate skills in. The only one I am not sure of yet is the "martial arts" skill, which is for knowledge of the 'culture' of martial arts, not of fighting. Probably needs renamed, but can't think of a better option yet.

Awareness: how much attention to pay to your surroundings.

Computer: programming and hacking.

Disguise: changing your appearance to become someone you aren’t.

Drive: useful for chase scenes.

Intimidation: also works as interrogation.

Insight: evaluate strengths and weaknesses, know there is more going on.

Inspire: lead others, offer encouragement.

Investigation: find clues, conduct research, and fit the pieces together.

Language: each rank grants an additional language known.

Martial Arts: knowing other styles, customs, tournament procedures, etc

Medicine: first aid and medical practices.

Mysteries: knowing the secret knowledge of the world, such as existence of rare techniques.

Repair: Familiar with machines and electronics.

Security: lock-picking, breaking and entering.

Stealth: sneaking and hiding.

Streetwise: blend in with the locals, know slang, gain information.

Subterfuge: deception and hiding your own motivations.

Survival: ability to find food, water, and shelter in the wilderness.


I will probably cover some of the extra stuff for characters, such as Chi and Willpower, Honor and Glory, and ideas I want to bring into the game, before moving on to any concepts for a combat system. Getting all these initial notes down has been important for me to work out all the ideas. Eventually I will come back to a lot of these concepts and revise them to be further fleshed out.
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: World_Warrior on October 29, 2020, 02:20:36 PM
And here are the basic outline notes for Willpower, Chi, and Health. Some notes regarding their implementation.

Willpower: Represents your mental fortitude, will, and resolve. Is used to in one of 3 ways:

    1) Can spend 1 Willpower to guarantee a success in a roll. 1’s cannot cancel this success.
    2) Certain Special Maneuvers require spending Willpower Points
    3) Can spend 1 Willpower to execute an Abort maneuver (Jump or Block) [old rules]

Willpower was originally determined by Style. Perhaps the starting value could be based around an attribute [which would help boost usefulness of other attributes.]

Maximum Willpower is 10.

Chi: Used to power some Special Maneuvers. Originally determined by choice of style. Perhaps the starting value could be based around an attribute [which would help boost usefulness of other attributes.]

Maximum Chi is 10.


Health: Characters start with 10 Health, and it can be increased to 20 Health through Experience Points. [Perhaps there could be more variance to the Health, instead of automatically getting 10 Health to start? Maybe this was done to make it fair among players for PvP reasons.]

Maximum Health is 20.


Ideas I am Working On:

Elemental Chi/Dark Chi/Chi Cultivation: Some elements from the Legends of the Wulin game I have been thinking about adding. Essentially, its optional material.

The idea is that players could start working on gaining special types of Chi [Fire, Water, Earth, Wood, Metal] that are used to power special rare styles and techniques. I’m not 100% sold on the idea, but it does add an interesting layer to gameplay and can give players something to seek out. “Oh, you want to shoot fireballs from your hands? Well, you need to learn to cultivate fire chi, which there is this old master in the mountains that knows a rare style of martial arts that deals with fire.” Etc.

Dark Chi was the one idea I plan to develop. It is inspired by Ryu’s Dark Hado. Basically, powerful chi that corrupts you at the same time. Some of the villains would have it.
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: World_Warrior on October 30, 2020, 02:23:19 PM
Combat & Special Maneuvers

Combat will be the trickiest part to nail (or rather, how the special maneuvers are played during combat.)


Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game Combat

The original system uses elements that would make a D&D 4E player feel right at home. Battles are fought on a grid, and the special maneuver cards have effects and can change character positions on the board.

Each technique has a Speed, Movement, and Damage modifier.

Each round, everyone picks a card and then the sequence is played out from the slowest action to the fastest, with faster players able to interrupt actions of their opponents.

There are 6 Technique traits that each Special Maneuver is connected to: Punch, Kick, Block, Grab, Athletics, and Focus. You cannot improve a Special Maneuver, only its Technique trait.


Burn Legend Combat

Burn Legend attempted to fix the original combat system and redesign it to have less focus on a grid and miniatures play, and more Theater of the Mind’s Eye. I won’t cover all the additional changes and extra elements added, as it doesn’t affect anything I am currently doing.

Special Maneuvers are their own Traits, and can be improved through Experience Points. Also, achieving certain ranks can also unlock improved versions of Maneuvers.

Each Special Maneuver is assigned a type: Strike, Aerial, Rush, Grapple, Defense, and Projectile (much like the Technique traits of SF).

Combat works with everyone selecting their cards and then everything is played at once. The big difference this time, is that success is determined by what type of Special Maneuver you picked. Many are automatic successes. Defense beats Strike, Strike beats Aerial, etc. Its an elaborate game of Rock, Paper, Scissors.

If two players picked techniques that don’t beat each other (or are the same type), then each rolls a “Clash Roll” (as determined by the card) with the winner inflicting damage on their opponent. There are also occasions where there will be no winner (block vs block) or where both opponents inflicting damage.

Distance is measured as Near or Far, with some additional rules added.


Notes for World Warrior

What I would like to do is adapt the Burn Legend combat system, but also allow GM’s to decide where they are doing TOME or doing a battle grid.  I like the idea of the rock, paper, scissors approach since it can lead to less dice rolls during a player’s turn. Because it is a martial arts game, I want to keep the pace up. I don’t want to bog down a player’s turn is a bunch of individual dice rolls, and much rather like what Burn Legend has done to improve speed of play.

Going through and structuring the combat system is going to take some time. There are so many choices that need to be made that affect the entire system that I will have to take my time. It may even be that after doing my analysis of the combat rules, I could always end up keeping the original system. But the amount of cards in hand, and the idea of being tied down to a battle grid starts putting me off. The system is complex and could become confusing if attempting to play without one.
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: World_Warrior on October 30, 2020, 02:52:43 PM
I would also like to add that if anyone has any insight for this project, I'd gladly welcome it. Being a rewrite of a 25 year old game system, there are many ways to look at the system. Some of what I have posted is just potential changes, but I am open to hearing what people's thoughts are.

I forget if I mentioned it before, but I am looking at the Opening the Dark (Storytelling System clone) as a potential skeleton to work off of for this game, but have been cautious because it hasn't really been available for years. The legality of things sometimes frightens me.
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: World_Warrior on November 03, 2020, 06:06:37 AM
Some notes on the combat system, using elements from Burn Legend:

Resolving Conflicts

There are six types of techniques:

Punch: attacks used with the hands. Also covers elbows.
Kick: attacks with the feet. Also covers knees.
Acrobatic: aerial moves, flips, cartwheels, and other moves.
Grapple: grabs, throws, and submissions.
Defense: blocks, deflections, etc.
Focus: projectiles and other special moves.

Each round, when players select their special maneuvers, there are one of three results that can occur: hit, clash, or hit trade.

Hit: Each maneuver has a type of technique that they automatically beat. When this happens, the player merely rolls damage against the opponent (minus the opponent’s Stamina)

Technique      Succeeds vs.
Punch              Acrobatic   
Kick                Punch   
Acrobatic         Focus
Grapple           Defense      
Defense          Punch   
Focus             <varies>

Clash: If neither maneuver clearly beats the other, then both players make a Clash roll (indicated on their maneuver). Whomever accumulates more successes defeats the opponent, and then rolls for damage.

Hit Trade: There will be occasions when both players succeed with their maneuvers (when both techniques automatically defeat the other, or when both players have equal successes on their clash rolls). When this occurs, both maneuvers hit their opponents at the same time, and both rolls damage on their opponents.
Title: World Warrior [Street Fighter Storytelling Game retro clone]
Post by: World_Warrior on January 02, 2021, 06:29:40 PM
I took a break due to Holidays, but now spending time going back through my initial notes. I am still very much looking at combining both systems for combat.  Because I have a framework, I plan to design two test characters and have players run a combat scene to get a feel for how revised combat works.

I will report my findings when that is completed.
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on February 06, 2021, 01:15:53 PM
Hey, if you’re worried about legality you can lookup the Action! System by Gold Rush Publications. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/69057

It’s 100% OGC. It doesn’t use dice pools but instead a 3d6 roll, but it does use attributes and skills arranged and rated similarly to ST. It only uses two physical/mental attribute groups by default, divided by power/aptitude/resist similar to ST, but explains how to invent your own.

I recently contacted the company by email and they said they have plans for new material in the future, so it’s not abandoned.
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on February 06, 2021, 01:24:56 PM
The Action System rules may be found here for free: http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/srd/srd_action/index.html
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: World_Warrior on March 04, 2021, 02:36:40 PM
The Action System rules may be found here for free: http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/srd/srd_action/index.html

I believe that is the cleaned up version of the Fuzion system? I guess I could always look into it, but if I go that route it becomes less of a retro clone for Street Fighter then.
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on March 06, 2021, 01:15:55 PM
The Action System rules may be found here for free: http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/srd/srd_action/index.html

I believe that is the cleaned up version of the Fuzion system? I guess I could always look into it, but if I go that route it becomes less of a retro clone for Street Fighter then.

I can’t find any SRDs for dice pool systems.

If nothing else, Action! is useful for emulating two-axis grouped attributes and perks/flaws, which are major parts of ST games.

EDIT: Here’s a potential candidate: http://sycarion.com/static/sixsidedf.html
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on March 06, 2021, 05:09:07 PM
I think you raise a good point about the questionable legality of Opening the Dark. I can't seem to find any SRDs for pass/fail-based dice pool systems. I was considering making my own SRD specifically for that, which would take into account innovations missed by OtD. What do you think?
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: World_Warrior on March 06, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Yeah, I was actually hoping you would continue work on an SRD. I know at one time you were planning on it. I feel the system has room for innovation (i.e. streamlining) much as I have been experimenting with the additional rules that comprise SF. And many of the distinct terms used by WW can easily be changed out. There are at least similar OGL dice pool systems with alternative terminology that should suffice to keep legal issues as non-existent as possible.

I think for your own project, just keeping the system as something different is enough (there were mentions before of doing something futuristic? I keep thinking that using a lot of your concepts in a Vampire Hunter D, Drakorouge, or Stormbringer type setting would be something fresh and innovative, even though the goal for you is keeping that modern horror feel).

I find the rules in general are what I want to use, more or less, and because I've been wanting to create something of a retro clone (minus the actual Capcom property) having that general SRD is helpful to connect many of the additional rules etc onto.
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on March 06, 2021, 07:27:48 PM
Yeah, I was actually hoping you would continue work on an SRD. I know at one time you were planning on it. I feel the system has room for innovation (i.e. streamlining) much as I have been experimenting with the additional rules that comprise SF. And many of the distinct terms used by WW can easily be changed out. There are at least similar OGL dice pool systems with alternative terminology that should suffice to keep legal issues as non-existent as possible.

I think for your own project, just keeping the system as something different is enough (there were mentions before of doing something futuristic? I keep thinking that using a lot of your concepts in a Vampire Hunter D, Drakorouge, or Stormbringer type setting would be something fresh and innovative, even though the goal for you is keeping that modern horror feel).

I find the rules in general are what I want to use, more or less, and because I've been wanting to create something of a retro clone (minus the actual Capcom property) having that general SRD is helpful to connect many of the additional rules etc onto.

I also think that the mechanics could use streamlining. Particularly with regards to combat. If the default rules are simple to begin with, then it will be easier to add onto them.

After some searching, I did find a "D6Core" SRD under production (https://d6core.com/). It looks to be remarkably complex and takes cues from lots of different systems. However, it is being released under Creative Commons rather than OGL.

I'll try to post some concepts for rules tomorrow and commentary on them. I don't know whether to start a new thread or not.
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on March 07, 2021, 08:16:59 PM
So I'm running into a problem. There have been many different iterations of the ST/SP system (https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Storyteller_System). While it is possible to represent the variations as options under a modular design, I don't know what should be used as the baseline. How closely do you want to emulate a given system? Do you want to take into account innovations made since then?

How does task resolution work? Do you adjust the number of pips you need to roll a la V20? Adjust the number of dice that need to meet this threshold a la Trinity? Do you stipulate that actions only need at least one die to strike for success a la CoD?

How many and what kind of Attributes do you want to use? Do you arrange them into Subgroups a la CoD? How do you handle the various extra traits that have been used like personality traits, magic points, etc? Should settings be allowed to add new groups as Action! suggests?
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: World_Warrior on March 11, 2021, 03:23:10 AM
Honestly, I'm not sure.

The original SF rules used what I believe is the first generation of the Storyteller system, just with a new combat system designed to emulate the Street Fighter arcade game. Because I am looking to revise that combat system, as noted in my previous posts, that really only leaves the basic rules chassis to figure out.

I'm honestly not up to speed with anything WW. Never played Vampire or anything. The SF game is the only thing that really interested me and outside some quick test games, and reading a lot of articles and posts (and your other Topic thread) I am not sure what all additional rules have even been done for the various games.

As for Attributes, etc I planned to use what I had at the beginning of this thread. Same with skills. I think the problem when it comes to an SRD is that the WW games, much like BRP and a few others, tend to adapt their rules to each setting. The World Warrior game I am designing uses Chi and Willpower, two different types of "magic points" to achieve success and power special moves.

I was planning on using the variant system where you can adjust the number needed to succeed, but one thing I thought about was even rewritting this system to be OGL, if it is kept as far away from what WW is currently using (don't they have yet ANOTHER new version of the rules coming out?) that would be helpful in making this distinct from them. Just using the original rules that have been discarded in favor of new versions I think would work.

You seem to have a better history on the system than I. Is there anything you can tell me about the original rules regarding why they made certain changes? Can Vampire 1E still be played enjoyably, or is it broken?
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: World_Warrior on March 11, 2021, 03:42:05 AM
As much as I'd hate to drop the default system, if I had to, I could always use D6, since that is now free. It even had a dice pool/count successes type system (think it was called D6 Legends?) that works similar to Storyteller.
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on March 15, 2021, 02:48:05 PM
Honestly, I'm not sure.

The original SF rules used what I believe is the first generation of the Storyteller system, just with a new combat system designed to emulate the Street Fighter arcade game. Because I am looking to revise that combat system, as noted in my previous posts, that really only leaves the basic rules chassis to figure out.

I'm honestly not up to speed with anything WW. Never played Vampire or anything. The SF game is the only thing that really interested me and outside some quick test games, and reading a lot of articles and posts (and your other Topic thread) I am not sure what all additional rules have even been done for the various games.

As for Attributes, etc I planned to use what I had at the beginning of this thread. Same with skills. I think the problem when it comes to an SRD is that the WW games, much like BRP and a few others, tend to adapt their rules to each setting. The World Warrior game I am designing uses Chi and Willpower, two different types of "magic points" to achieve success and power special moves.

I was planning on using the variant system where you can adjust the number needed to succeed, but one thing I thought about was even rewritting this system to be OGL, if it is kept as far away from what WW is currently using (don't they have yet ANOTHER new version of the rules coming out?) that would be helpful in making this distinct from them. Just using the original rules that have been discarded in favor of new versions I think would work.

You seem to have a better history on the system than I. Is there anything you can tell me about the original rules regarding why they made certain changes? Can Vampire 1E still be played enjoyably, or is it broken?

(Forgive the potentially confusing terminology I am using here. The details of the various game jargons are jumbled in my mind and it has been many years since I regularly interacted with the game rules.)

The fandom wiki article goes over all the major changes, but I will address your question about V1. The problem with V1 has to do with "1s subtracting" rule and how that interacts with increasing the target pips. Basically, your chances of botching increase regardless of the PC's dice pool size as the target pip goes up until you have 50% change of success and 50% chance of botching at target pip 10. (I'd look for dice curve model images but I'm short on time.) In V3 this was adjusted so that rolling even one passing die means that you only fail rather than botch. In V4 (V20) the allowed target pips were changed so that the maximum is 8 or 9 IIRC.

In Requiem the "1s subtract" rule does not apply to normal rolls and is only used in special circumstances (presumably because its effect isn't diminished by dice pool size like penalties are). The target pips is fixed at 8 for all rolls. Rather than adjusting target pips, all modifiers are applied to dice pool size. If you roll a 10, then you get a bonus die to roll... potentially for another 10 and so on. The degree of success has been flattened to success (1+ passing die) and exceptional success (5+ passing dice) for actions with binary outcomes (i.e. it works or it doesn't); individual passing dice are counted for actions where they would determine damage inflicted or scaling certain effects. There's a free quickstart (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/92564/Nightmare-on-Hill-Manor) that explains the basics of the nWoD/CoD1 rules if my explanation didn't make sense.

As much as I'd hate to drop the default system, if I had to, I could always use D6, since that is now free. It even had a dice pool/count successes type system (think it was called D6 Legends?) that works similar to Storyteller.
If you're concerned about the availability of dice, then yes. Though you could also use playing cards I suppose. Dice rolling apps are widely available on smartphones, too.

I wouldn't get too worked up about D6. The official quickstarts from the late 90s used D6 instead of D10.

The World Warrior game I am designing uses Chi and Willpower, two different types of "magic points" to achieve success and power special moves.
These kinds of mechanics have undergone noticeable adjustments. In V5, you no longer have WP dots and no longer roll WP. It's treated like a health track, with a pool equal to the sum of your Social and Mental Resistance attributes. There isn't a way to buy additional points separately from those attributes, though I don't see any reason why you couldn't offer the option to.

Action! does something similar where you have derived attributes equal to modified sums of primary attributes, so the derived attributes increase as the primary ones do, and you can buy additional points in just the derived attributes that stack with the base value provided by primary attributes.
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on March 16, 2021, 02:20:27 PM
Oh, and the Storypath System used for Trinity and Exalted went in yet another direction. It was originally called "Revised Storyteller" but the basics haven't changed too much since then AFAIK. Target pips are fixed as with the Storytelling System used by nWoD/CoD, and instead modifiers are applied to the number of passing dice that need to be rolled. In some versions there is a target number of passing dice, while in the most recent versions I'm aware of instead a penalty is applied directly to the number of passing dice rolled to get a net result. In terms of the final result, these are functionally identical as far as I can tell. I personally think the second variation makes slightly more sense in terms of applying mathematics, but YMMV.
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: Arcmyst on April 05, 2021, 01:12:19 AM
As much as I'd hate to drop the default system, if I had to, I could always use D6, since that is now free. It even had a dice pool/count successes type system (think it was called D6 Legends?) that works similar to Storyteller.

Well, mechanics can't be copyrighted. The point is what you want to change. It may not be so "retroclone" anymore.

D6 Legends exists the way you said. You may go with it to achieve similar results a d10 pool system has. You can change a d10 pool system to make it differently. I don't mind using d12 or whatever. I can't say if it is easy to find but you can improvise it. Also it will be a system for a target public, due the effort of learning manual of techniques etc.

AFIK, the Opening the Darkness is OGL. It can't be undone. Author dropped since he disliked how it was portrayed by other people. It wasn't caused by directly White Wolf interference.

You can go with OtD and build a setting different from SF. The point would be balancing all new techniques. There is a lot of fan-material adapting SF:RPG for another video games in Portuguese, which is inspiring but at same time limiting.

I started worked in a fighting game but it never growth. The idea was: You have Strength 3, Punch 4, you can chose to roll just three dices (pick 2 Strength and Punch 1) to throw a job.

Bad results can turns into disadvantages. It worsen your speed, can turn into a special problem if another specific techniques hits you. Whatever that way.

You may not be totally free. Let's say you should learn specific techniques, with described outcomes and advantages for the poll of rolls.

I was more interested in building a fast-play with future supplements to adjust techniques balance. SF:RPG isn't exactly balanced and you need a lot of dices. Not always a problem; it's the flavor of the original system.

Spins can help to build an original work. However it seems more a modern design than a retro-clone.

TL;DR: No reason to be afraid, IMO. There are cool alternatives. The language of fighting video games and real martial arts may help building new setting, different maneuver names and stuff.
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: World_Warrior on April 13, 2021, 02:18:07 AM

Well, mechanics can't be copyrighted. The point is what you want to change. It may not be so "retroclone" anymore.

AFIK, the Opening the Darkness is OGL. It can't be undone. Author dropped since he disliked how it was portrayed by other people. It wasn't caused by directly White Wolf interference.

You can go with OtD and build a setting different from SF. The point would be balancing all new techniques. There is a lot of fan-material adapting SF:RPG for another video games in Portuguese, which is inspiring but at same time limiting.

TL;DR: No reason to be afraid, IMO. There are cool alternatives. The language of fighting video games and real martial arts may help building new setting, different maneuver names and stuff.

True. I guess, the best way is to keep the current system and build upon it. The only way I am ever going to find out is if I actually build this thing and get it done. I can always adjust the rules, fix potential issues, and streamline the rules once I have a functioning document.
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on April 13, 2021, 03:35:07 PM

Well, mechanics can't be copyrighted. The point is what you want to change. It may not be so "retroclone" anymore.

AFIK, the Opening the Darkness is OGL. It can't be undone. Author dropped since he disliked how it was portrayed by other people. It wasn't caused by directly White Wolf interference.

You can go with OtD and build a setting different from SF. The point would be balancing all new techniques. There is a lot of fan-material adapting SF:RPG for another video games in Portuguese, which is inspiring but at same time limiting.

TL;DR: No reason to be afraid, IMO. There are cool alternatives. The language of fighting video games and real martial arts may help building new setting, different maneuver names and stuff.

True. I guess, the best way is to keep the current system and build upon it. The only way I am ever going to find out is if I actually build this thing and get it done. I can always adjust the rules, fix potential issues, and streamline the rules once I have a functioning document.

That’s the spirit!  :)
Title: Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
Post by: World_Warrior on April 14, 2021, 08:57:32 PM
Currently writing out the "Game System" using Open the Dark. This will just be the basic rules to build the combat system off of.

Edit: wanted to add some thoughts behind what I am building.

1. The Game System is pretty straight forward, but will be the chassis I will build everything off of. Currently writing.
2. Next will be the character creation section. I will be filling this in as I go, but want it to also focus on charts for concepts.
3.  I am looking at the CHAMPS system, which was designed to create martial arts moves. This will be used to redesign all maneuvers.

Once I have this all set, the rest will fall into place. Styles will be based on my world. The setting itself will need designed. I am going to start small with a total of 10 styles. These will not be 1:1 translations of the book Styles. Combat will be based on the original rules, but want to reach out with other players to find where house rules, etc were used to streamline play. I may add stuff from other supplements (animal hybrids, dualists, cyborgs, etc) but only once the rest is written. This is a huge undertaking as is.