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Author Topic: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]  (Read 1569 times)

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2021, 07:27:48 PM »
Yeah, I was actually hoping you would continue work on an SRD. I know at one time you were planning on it. I feel the system has room for innovation (i.e. streamlining) much as I have been experimenting with the additional rules that comprise SF. And many of the distinct terms used by WW can easily be changed out. There are at least similar OGL dice pool systems with alternative terminology that should suffice to keep legal issues as non-existent as possible.

I think for your own project, just keeping the system as something different is enough (there were mentions before of doing something futuristic? I keep thinking that using a lot of your concepts in a Vampire Hunter D, Drakorouge, or Stormbringer type setting would be something fresh and innovative, even though the goal for you is keeping that modern horror feel).

I find the rules in general are what I want to use, more or less, and because I've been wanting to create something of a retro clone (minus the actual Capcom property) having that general SRD is helpful to connect many of the additional rules etc onto.

I also think that the mechanics could use streamlining. Particularly with regards to combat. If the default rules are simple to begin with, then it will be easier to add onto them.

After some searching, I did find a "D6Core" SRD under production. It looks to be remarkably complex and takes cues from lots of different systems. However, it is being released under Creative Commons rather than OGL.

I'll try to post some concepts for rules tomorrow and commentary on them. I don't know whether to start a new thread or not.

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2021, 08:16:59 PM »
So I'm running into a problem. There have been many different iterations of the ST/SP system. While it is possible to represent the variations as options under a modular design, I don't know what should be used as the baseline. How closely do you want to emulate a given system? Do you want to take into account innovations made since then?

How does task resolution work? Do you adjust the number of pips you need to roll a la V20? Adjust the number of dice that need to meet this threshold a la Trinity? Do you stipulate that actions only need at least one die to strike for success a la CoD?

How many and what kind of Attributes do you want to use? Do you arrange them into Subgroups a la CoD? How do you handle the various extra traits that have been used like personality traits, magic points, etc? Should settings be allowed to add new groups as Action! suggests?

World_Warrior

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Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2021, 03:23:10 AM »
Honestly, I'm not sure.

The original SF rules used what I believe is the first generation of the Storyteller system, just with a new combat system designed to emulate the Street Fighter arcade game. Because I am looking to revise that combat system, as noted in my previous posts, that really only leaves the basic rules chassis to figure out.

I'm honestly not up to speed with anything WW. Never played Vampire or anything. The SF game is the only thing that really interested me and outside some quick test games, and reading a lot of articles and posts (and your other Topic thread) I am not sure what all additional rules have even been done for the various games.

As for Attributes, etc I planned to use what I had at the beginning of this thread. Same with skills. I think the problem when it comes to an SRD is that the WW games, much like BRP and a few others, tend to adapt their rules to each setting. The World Warrior game I am designing uses Chi and Willpower, two different types of "magic points" to achieve success and power special moves.

I was planning on using the variant system where you can adjust the number needed to succeed, but one thing I thought about was even rewritting this system to be OGL, if it is kept as far away from what WW is currently using (don't they have yet ANOTHER new version of the rules coming out?) that would be helpful in making this distinct from them. Just using the original rules that have been discarded in favor of new versions I think would work.

You seem to have a better history on the system than I. Is there anything you can tell me about the original rules regarding why they made certain changes? Can Vampire 1E still be played enjoyably, or is it broken?

World_Warrior

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Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2021, 03:42:05 AM »
As much as I'd hate to drop the default system, if I had to, I could always use D6, since that is now free. It even had a dice pool/count successes type system (think it was called D6 Legends?) that works similar to Storyteller.

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2021, 02:48:05 PM »
Honestly, I'm not sure.

The original SF rules used what I believe is the first generation of the Storyteller system, just with a new combat system designed to emulate the Street Fighter arcade game. Because I am looking to revise that combat system, as noted in my previous posts, that really only leaves the basic rules chassis to figure out.

I'm honestly not up to speed with anything WW. Never played Vampire or anything. The SF game is the only thing that really interested me and outside some quick test games, and reading a lot of articles and posts (and your other Topic thread) I am not sure what all additional rules have even been done for the various games.

As for Attributes, etc I planned to use what I had at the beginning of this thread. Same with skills. I think the problem when it comes to an SRD is that the WW games, much like BRP and a few others, tend to adapt their rules to each setting. The World Warrior game I am designing uses Chi and Willpower, two different types of "magic points" to achieve success and power special moves.

I was planning on using the variant system where you can adjust the number needed to succeed, but one thing I thought about was even rewritting this system to be OGL, if it is kept as far away from what WW is currently using (don't they have yet ANOTHER new version of the rules coming out?) that would be helpful in making this distinct from them. Just using the original rules that have been discarded in favor of new versions I think would work.

You seem to have a better history on the system than I. Is there anything you can tell me about the original rules regarding why they made certain changes? Can Vampire 1E still be played enjoyably, or is it broken?

(Forgive the potentially confusing terminology I am using here. The details of the various game jargons are jumbled in my mind and it has been many years since I regularly interacted with the game rules.)

The fandom wiki article goes over all the major changes, but I will address your question about V1. The problem with V1 has to do with "1s subtracting" rule and how that interacts with increasing the target pips. Basically, your chances of botching increase regardless of the PC's dice pool size as the target pip goes up until you have 50% change of success and 50% chance of botching at target pip 10. (I'd look for dice curve model images but I'm short on time.) In V3 this was adjusted so that rolling even one passing die means that you only fail rather than botch. In V4 (V20) the allowed target pips were changed so that the maximum is 8 or 9 IIRC.

In Requiem the "1s subtract" rule does not apply to normal rolls and is only used in special circumstances (presumably because its effect isn't diminished by dice pool size like penalties are). The target pips is fixed at 8 for all rolls. Rather than adjusting target pips, all modifiers are applied to dice pool size. If you roll a 10, then you get a bonus die to roll... potentially for another 10 and so on. The degree of success has been flattened to success (1+ passing die) and exceptional success (5+ passing dice) for actions with binary outcomes (i.e. it works or it doesn't); individual passing dice are counted for actions where they would determine damage inflicted or scaling certain effects. There's a free quickstart that explains the basics of the nWoD/CoD1 rules if my explanation didn't make sense.

As much as I'd hate to drop the default system, if I had to, I could always use D6, since that is now free. It even had a dice pool/count successes type system (think it was called D6 Legends?) that works similar to Storyteller.
If you're concerned about the availability of dice, then yes. Though you could also use playing cards I suppose. Dice rolling apps are widely available on smartphones, too.

I wouldn't get too worked up about D6. The official quickstarts from the late 90s used D6 instead of D10.

The World Warrior game I am designing uses Chi and Willpower, two different types of "magic points" to achieve success and power special moves.
These kinds of mechanics have undergone noticeable adjustments. In V5, you no longer have WP dots and no longer roll WP. It's treated like a health track, with a pool equal to the sum of your Social and Mental Resistance attributes. There isn't a way to buy additional points separately from those attributes, though I don't see any reason why you couldn't offer the option to.

Action! does something similar where you have derived attributes equal to modified sums of primary attributes, so the derived attributes increase as the primary ones do, and you can buy additional points in just the derived attributes that stack with the base value provided by primary attributes.

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2021, 02:20:27 PM »
Oh, and the Storypath System used for Trinity and Exalted went in yet another direction. It was originally called "Revised Storyteller" but the basics haven't changed too much since then AFAIK. Target pips are fixed as with the Storytelling System used by nWoD/CoD, and instead modifiers are applied to the number of passing dice that need to be rolled. In some versions there is a target number of passing dice, while in the most recent versions I'm aware of instead a penalty is applied directly to the number of passing dice rolled to get a net result. In terms of the final result, these are functionally identical as far as I can tell. I personally think the second variation makes slightly more sense in terms of applying mathematics, but YMMV.

Arcmyst

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Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2021, 01:12:19 AM »
As much as I'd hate to drop the default system, if I had to, I could always use D6, since that is now free. It even had a dice pool/count successes type system (think it was called D6 Legends?) that works similar to Storyteller.

Well, mechanics can't be copyrighted. The point is what you want to change. It may not be so "retroclone" anymore.

D6 Legends exists the way you said. You may go with it to achieve similar results a d10 pool system has. You can change a d10 pool system to make it differently. I don't mind using d12 or whatever. I can't say if it is easy to find but you can improvise it. Also it will be a system for a target public, due the effort of learning manual of techniques etc.

AFIK, the Opening the Darkness is OGL. It can't be undone. Author dropped since he disliked how it was portrayed by other people. It wasn't caused by directly White Wolf interference.

You can go with OtD and build a setting different from SF. The point would be balancing all new techniques. There is a lot of fan-material adapting SF:RPG for another video games in Portuguese, which is inspiring but at same time limiting.

I started worked in a fighting game but it never growth. The idea was: You have Strength 3, Punch 4, you can chose to roll just three dices (pick 2 Strength and Punch 1) to throw a job.

Bad results can turns into disadvantages. It worsen your speed, can turn into a special problem if another specific techniques hits you. Whatever that way.

You may not be totally free. Let's say you should learn specific techniques, with described outcomes and advantages for the poll of rolls.

I was more interested in building a fast-play with future supplements to adjust techniques balance. SF:RPG isn't exactly balanced and you need a lot of dices. Not always a problem; it's the flavor of the original system.

Spins can help to build an original work. However it seems more a modern design than a retro-clone.

TL;DR: No reason to be afraid, IMO. There are cool alternatives. The language of fighting video games and real martial arts may help building new setting, different maneuver names and stuff.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 09:16:40 PM by Arcmyst »

World_Warrior

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Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2021, 02:18:07 AM »

Well, mechanics can't be copyrighted. The point is what you want to change. It may not be so "retroclone" anymore.

AFIK, the Opening the Darkness is OGL. It can't be undone. Author dropped since he disliked how it was portrayed by other people. It wasn't caused by directly White Wolf interference.

You can go with OtD and build a setting different from SF. The point would be balancing all new techniques. There is a lot of fan-material adapting SF:RPG for another video games in Portuguese, which is inspiring but at same time limiting.

TL;DR: No reason to be afraid, IMO. There are cool alternatives. The language of fighting video games and real martial arts may help building new setting, different maneuver names and stuff.

True. I guess, the best way is to keep the current system and build upon it. The only way I am ever going to find out is if I actually build this thing and get it done. I can always adjust the rules, fix potential issues, and streamline the rules once I have a functioning document.

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2021, 03:35:07 PM »

Well, mechanics can't be copyrighted. The point is what you want to change. It may not be so "retroclone" anymore.

AFIK, the Opening the Darkness is OGL. It can't be undone. Author dropped since he disliked how it was portrayed by other people. It wasn't caused by directly White Wolf interference.

You can go with OtD and build a setting different from SF. The point would be balancing all new techniques. There is a lot of fan-material adapting SF:RPG for another video games in Portuguese, which is inspiring but at same time limiting.

TL;DR: No reason to be afraid, IMO. There are cool alternatives. The language of fighting video games and real martial arts may help building new setting, different maneuver names and stuff.

True. I guess, the best way is to keep the current system and build upon it. The only way I am ever going to find out is if I actually build this thing and get it done. I can always adjust the rules, fix potential issues, and streamline the rules once I have a functioning document.

That’s the spirit!  :)

World_Warrior

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Re: Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game "retro clone" [World Warrior]
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2021, 08:57:32 PM »
Currently writing out the "Game System" using Open the Dark. This will just be the basic rules to build the combat system off of.

Edit: wanted to add some thoughts behind what I am building.

1. The Game System is pretty straight forward, but will be the chassis I will build everything off of. Currently writing.
2. Next will be the character creation section. I will be filling this in as I go, but want it to also focus on charts for concepts.
3.  I am looking at the CHAMPS system, which was designed to create martial arts moves. This will be used to redesign all maneuvers.

Once I have this all set, the rest will fall into place. Styles will be based on my world. The setting itself will need designed. I am going to start small with a total of 10 styles. These will not be 1:1 translations of the book Styles. Combat will be based on the original rules, but want to reach out with other players to find where house rules, etc were used to streamline play. I may add stuff from other supplements (animal hybrids, dualists, cyborgs, etc) but only once the rest is written. This is a huge undertaking as is.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 11:06:08 PM by Eldritch_Knight »