Very interesting Maddman. I think I'm going to take a closer look at Buffy, maybe not run it, but just to get some more ideas or refine some of my own.

I really like the whole story arc kind of campaign. What I do is, run a game once a week for about three months, each session an episode then the final session a season finale so to speak. I then run another game (preferably a different genre) for three months alternating between the two (or three) and picking up where the season finales left of.

Regards,
David R

Here's a radical idea. Run the adventure, and if anything happens during it you think is worth telling a story about, tell a story about it.

Quote from: mythusmageHere's a radical idea. Run the adventure, and if anything happens during it you think is worth telling a story about, tell a story about it.

Or, you know, interpret the action within the framework of a story, like you're witnessing a story unfold while you're playing the game.  It won't break your brain.  Honest.

!i!

Maddman, do you see the difference between Keep on the Borderlands or Arrival Vengeance and a tv-structure?
You talk like you don`t.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaOr, you know, interpret the action within the framework of a story, like you're witnessing a story unfold while you're playing the game.  It won't break your brain.  Honest.

!i!

What if it has all the structure of a t-ball game?

Quote from: SettembriniMaddman, do you see the difference between Keep on the Borderlands or Arrival Vengeance and a tv-structure?
You talk like you don`t.

Given the proper framing and emphasis, I could run Keep on the Borderlands with this style.  This isn't about content so much as it is about presentation.

QuoteHere's a radical idea. Run the adventure, and if anything happens during it you think is worth telling a story about, tell a story about it.

I did that, for many years.  The games weren't fun, or at least not fun enough to keep everyone engaged.  I'm not fifteen and I don't have all summer to let something awesome happen every now and again by sheer chance.  I need something awesome to happen tonight.

QuoteI don't have all summer to let something awesome happen every now and again by sheer chance. I need something awesome to happen tonight.

That only explains your own preference for structure over freedom. Don`t mix "feels very good to me" with "I don`t curtail freedom of actions and developments".

Quote from: mythusmageWhat if it has all the structure of a t-ball game?

WTF? That's a response?

Part of the problem this topic is that we just can't agree on what "story" means. It means something to people. Few can actually describe it. Hell, professional writers cannot describe it, and they work with it to earn a living. It means something to the audience watching the latest Bruce Willis flick or those reading the New York Times Bestselling page-turner. It means something to the college co-ed talking to her mom on the phone and hearing what's been happening at home. It means something to the kid starving to death in Africa while his mother tells him a folk tale to help him sleep. It means something to the human condition. And it means something to us and why we play RPGs and no card games or board games or miniatures war games.

But then, many do play RPGs as if they are just miniatures war games, so that may be part of the problem.

QuoteJack Spencer

Part of the problem this topic is that we just can't agree on what "story" means. It means something to people. Few can actually describe it. Hell, professional writers cannot describe it, and they work with it to earn a living. It means something to the audience watching the latest Bruce Willis flick or those reading the New York Times Bestselling page-turner. It means something to the college co-ed talking to her mom on the phone and hearing what's been happening at home. It means something to the kid starving to death in Africa while his mother tells him a folk tale to help him sleep. It means something to the human condition. And it means something to us and why we play RPGs and no card games or board games or miniatures war games.

Nicely put. So does this mean, Jack is going to be a regular around here?

QuoteBut then, many do play RPGs as if they are just miniatures war games, so that may be part of the problem.

Them fighting words, esp around these parts

Regards,
David R

QuoteBut then, many do play RPGs as if they are just miniatures war games, so that may be part of the problem.

Reconsider your statement, or flamewar will ensue.:mad:

Quote from: SettembriniReconsider your statement, or flamewar will ensue.:mad:

Don't worry too much about what Jack says, mate. A while ago he publicly abandoned his pretence of having gamed at all recently. He deleted his own blog entries about it, but others referred to them.

Quote from: zigguratbuilderOn the other hand, I've been seeing this guy for years. Always seeming to argue loudly for one thing or another, and more recently with more and more cantankerous vigor (which even led me to suspend him temporarily-cum-permanently from Story-Games.com, a First!). Turns out that he hasn't actually played in years. Go figure? It may have just been that gaming died years ago for him, but he didn't notice it until recently.

Which is kinda weird when you think about it. I was IMing Keith, and we put our heads together to come up with hobby-stuff that we could do for years without realizing we hated it. In both of our cases, we couldn't think of anything that we could do for more than 10 minutes if we hated it.

He was heading for a blow-up of Gleichman proportions (and if you don't know Gleichman, then that's totally fine), but it's good to see that he came to that realization himself and ducked out gracefully. From his history (especially piledriving The Forge, having been an ex-member, and again not having gamed forever yet arguing about it with the viritol of an Armchair Hockey Fanatic), I'm half-ambivalent, half-"HA HA!" and a cock-punch. But after seeing Clinton's caring comments on his LJ, I'm in total agreement there, too:

No need to get on his case for "being a dilweed all this time" or anything, but rather to encourage him to find something new to pull him out of his funk (his funk reminds me of a bad breakup in a very real way, "What have I been doing? What do I do now? What fills this hole?". Something fun, cool and active. Then we'll wish him well as he heads off on his new path.

Quote from: zigguaratbuilderBah, he took down his LJ again. Oh well, nevermind.

Jack Spencer Jr burned out and is leaving RPGs forever, selling all his stuff, etc. Even though he's been very active and agressive for years on the Forge, RPGnet, etc it's come out that he hasn't really played in a long time, and has never really enjoyed the activity.

It's sad, cause Clinton said some really cool things to him in the comments. Oh well.

I've no idea what Jack's been doing since he came back, for all we know he's gamed eight hours a day since, trying fifty different games.

But the pattern has been lots of talk about gaming, and not much gaming. So I wouldn't worry about his negative opinions of our gaming too much. Imagine you have a friend who's had a nasty break-up with his girlfriend - five years ago - who says that most women are bitches, that relationships are just inherently wrong in the way they work, and he hasn't had a woman in those five years. Would you worry about what he thought of your marriage?

None of this is to say anything negative about Jack as a person. Some people choose the wrong spouse or job, and stick with them for years on end, because they just don't know what else to do. That doesn't make them bad people, just... a bit lost.

Unless he's turned around and found he loves some rpg or other. I wouldn't know, I'm just going on what we've seen so far.

Quote from: Jack Spencer JrWTF? That's a response?

Part of the problem this topic is that we just can't agree on what "story" means. It means something to people. Few can actually describe it. Hell, professional writers cannot describe it, and they work with it to earn a living. It means something to the audience watching the latest Bruce Willis flick or those reading the New York Times Bestselling page-turner. It means something to the college co-ed talking to her mom on the phone and hearing what's been happening at home. It means something to the kid starving to death in Africa while his mother tells him a folk tale to help him sleep. It means something to the human condition. And it means something to us and why we play RPGs and no card games or board games or miniatures war games.

But then, many do play RPGs as if they are just miniatures war games, so that may be part of the problem.

I play rpgs, board games and wargames.  I don't play card games currently, but I have in the past.

Personally my main objection to people playing rpgs as miniatures war games is that rpgs make lousy miniatures war games, I'd far rather crack out a good miniatures war game ruleset for that particular fun.

Other than that, I don't see what the problem is you allude to.  If someone runs a good minis wargame using an rpg ruleset I'm cool to play that.

Quote from: BalbinusOther than that, I don't see what the problem is you allude to.  If someone runs a good minis wargame using an rpg ruleset I'm cool to play that.

Well, of course if they have fun playing it, that's groovy and all that happy horseshit. The problem comes in trying to discuss this story shit and the guy who basically is just using an RPG like a wargame chimes in. It muddies the waters and starts flame wars and is just generally useless. Why the fuck they feel the need to come into a story thread and let us know that they really aren't interested in the story thing baffles me, really. It's like going into a thread on parenting and declaring how you don't have kids and don't want any. Smashing! Good for you, sport.

Sort of like a story-gamer coming in and talking shit about traditional games in a normal forum, or trying to talk about "story" in a thread that has nothing to do with story?

Or even more, like a guy who doesn't actually play RPGs coming into a forum about RPGs and talking about them like he was a player?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditSort of like a story-gamer coming in and talking shit about traditional games in a normal forum, or trying to talk about "story" in a thread that has nothing to do with story?

So you know how annoying it is.