Ok, up until now, i have been pretty proud of the solutions i have for claw attacks, namely roll the damage thrice, and take the highest.

However, this may slow down the combat (something i prefer to not do) if one only has one d8 and that is the damage dice, and to buy triplets of the D4 - D12 dices may be expensive for a newcomer to rpgs to get for only my game.

So, i am now trying to find alternate ways.

Do note, that the damage roll is also the hit/miss roll, where 2 always is a miss, and 1 always is a Fumble (or a critical fail if you like).

Attacks that is like harder punches add +1 or more to the dice, while broader attacks like swords make it easier to hit, increasing the dice(from D6 to D8 for instance).
Pure strength varies between +1 and higher dice, or may even decrase the dice if the character is weak.

Would perhaps a +1D6 -2 be a good alternative for claw attacks?
Most people have extra D6'es somewhere.

2d4 instead of d8, but miss only on a 1?
(Usually I find 'critical fumbles' with natural weapons more hard to imagine/describe).

Tricky one. Is it important to vary the damage for claw attacks, could they not just be treated as an equivalent sword/knife?

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;7106252d4 instead of d8, but miss only on a 1?
(Usually I find 'critical fumbles' with natural weapons more hard to imagine/describe).

Hm ...
It would work technically, but it would complicate the decision on what dice to roll.
However, removing the fumble altogether sounds like a good idea for claw attacks indeed.

Quote from: The Traveller;710628Tricky one. Is it important to vary the damage for claw attacks, could they not just be treated as an equivalent sword/knife?

Hm, it is easier to damage with claw than with punch, but it is still easier to damage with a knife than with claws ...

So i guess the answer is yes. It is at least clearly preferred.

Quote from: Catelf;710637Hm, it is easier to damage with claw than with punch, but it is still easier to damage with a knife than with claws ...

So i guess the answer is yes. It is at least clearly preferred.

The next question to ask then is, does the system have the scope to fit a damage range between punch and knife? If so, do it, if not, change the system.

(from the 0.7 version)

QuoteHighest Agility Goes First, and so on. If Equal, roll same type of Die and highest goes first.Punch: Add Strength + Brawl.Turn it into a die Roll: 1-2=D4-1   3-4=D4   5-6=D6   7-8=D8   and so on.Roll.If the result Exceeds opponents Body(+ any Armor), you deal 1 wound.If the result is more than Double opponents Body(+ any Armor), you deal 2 wounds instead.If the result is more than triple opponents Body(+ any Armor), you deal 3 wounds.and so on.If you take Wounds equal or more than you have Health(normally 2), You are KO'd(not dead yet).(But if you take 5 Wounds in excess to getting K.O.'d, YOU ARE DEAD.

You could also make punches be the same damage as knife but 'subdual' damage, or perhaps punching could have a larger die but be limited to 1 wound regardless of roll.

Quote from: The Traveller;710653The next question to ask then is, does the system have the scope to fit a damage range between punch and knife? If so, do it, if not, change the system.

I may have to change the system, a knife is typically a punch +1.
If the punch is D4 +1 already, then the knife is D6.

Any range beween those two might be: remove fumbles and/or allow a re-roll, or 2 dice take highest.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;710659You could also make punches be the same damage as knife but 'subdual' damage, or perhaps punching could have a larger die but be limited to 1 wound regardless of roll.

That would work for "normal-size" claws, but it wouldn't make sense for more powerful or harder ones.
Would perhaps 2 Dice, take highest be enough, or even just a reroll?
Removing the risk for fumbles may also be added.

The idea is increasing the possible damage done, not exceeding it ... unless neccesary.
If i wanted it done the easiest way, i would already have given the claws knife damage or punch damage with no fumbles.
I may still have to settle for any of those ...

:hmm:
Come to think of it...if you're often rolling only d6 or d8, 1s as fumbles may be a bit too common even with other attacks.

Anyway, you could treat big claws as knife I guess (remove limitation)..or I suppose 2 dice take highest could work. Ideally I'd want to see the whole weapons damage list before answering for sure. And any other ways of modifying damage. If you're rolling 2-dice-take-highest it immediately reduces fumble chance (that's how Savage Worlds for instance handles fumbles...its d4 to d12 but for PCs there's an extra d6, with a fumble only on double-1).

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;710807:hmm:
Come to think of it...if you're often rolling only d6 or d8, 1s as fumbles may be a bit too common even with other attacks.

Anyway, you could treat big claws as knife I guess (remove limitation)..or I suppose 2 dice take highest could work. Ideally I'd want to see the whole weapons damage list before answering for sure. And any other ways of modifying damage. If you're rolling 2-dice-take-highest it immediately reduces fumble chance (that's how Savage Worlds for instance handles fumbles...its d4 to d12 but for PCs there's an extra d6, with a fumble only on double-1).

Thing is, the claw attacks are supposed to have a seperate mechanic in addition to the un-clawed damage, so bigger claws do have the +1 of knives, but also has the "claw mechanic" ...

As for the whole weapons damage list, i assume everything that is needed is in the 0.7 that you have referred to yourself, the only difference is that the claws are noted among the animal traits, and not the weapons section.

Another way is to require only triplets of D6 and perhaps D10, since people using claws often also beef up on fighing skills enough to use at least D6 ... and if not, then allowing 3 x D6-1(take highest) may be in order, especially together with the removed fumbles.

Quote from: Catelf;711066As for the whole weapons damage list, i assume everything that is needed is in the 0.7 that you have referred to yourself, the only difference is that the claws are noted among the animal traits, and not the weapons section.

OK. Sorry I was confused for some reason...
Looking again, maybe giving out re-rolls is not ideal as a mechanic since that provides a larger bonus, the bigger the character's die. So the more skilled/stronger the character, the better Claws is as a choice vs. using a weapon.
 
Maybe since a character would usually have 2 claws, have them roll 2 dice (like two weapon fighting) but then a damage cap to counter-act that being too good?

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;711083OK. Sorry I was confused for some reason...
Looking again, maybe giving out re-rolls is not ideal as a mechanic since that provides a larger bonus, the bigger the character's die. So the more skilled/stronger the character, the better Claws is as a choice vs. using a weapon.
 
Maybe since a character would usually have 2 claws, have them roll 2 dice (like two weapon fighting) but then a damage cap to counter-act that being too good?

Multiple dice - take the highest is even more powerful than a reroll then ...

As for counting it as 2 claws, it is both a hit and a miss, in a way.
See, the reason for the three dice originally, is that each paw usually has either 4-5 claws, or three somewhat bigger claws.
So each claw attack is one paw attack, and that is where the 3 dice comes from, where the dice represents 3 individual claws, rather.
...
Perhaps i should have explained that first.