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Author Topic: Strategy in Dialogue  (Read 670 times)

Lady_of_Pain

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Strategy in Dialogue
« on: June 05, 2020, 07:15:14 PM »
How do you feel about gamifying conflict in social interaction so that it becomes strategic rather than brute forced?  I'm speaking in the context of non-narration-oriented games (as I'm not familiar with those kinds), where abilities in social interaction mostly appear to be ham-fistedly tacked on with little thought.

I think it's odd that despite gaming sessions having far more dialogue than combat - in my personal observations - the combat system designs are intended to be fair, colorful and balanced whereas dialogue gets a simple persuasion mechanic.  

My observations may or may not be accurate at larger scales, but I'm only using them to frame my question, which boils down to: do you think it would be fun, or should dialogue be unhindered by mechanics?

Spinachcat

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Strategy in Dialogue
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2020, 04:25:47 AM »
I've not seen rules that make social interaction better than just the GM and players roleplaying it out. Of course, PC skills and traits should be considered (aka, the classic CHA 18 paladin played by someone who stutters), but in general, dialogue is extremely powerful for immersion. As the GM and players roleplay and get into their characters, the game falls away somewhat and the fantasy take center stage.

Itachi

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Strategy in Dialogue
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2020, 06:40:41 PM »
Lots of games already mediate social interaction without "brute force", and make them into tactical/strategical decisions to some degree.

Ie: Smallville, Monsterhearts, Apocalypse World, Burning Wheel, Fate, BubbleGumshoe, Hillfolk, Exalted 3e, etc.

I've tried a couple of those and they run fine. Much better than the "brute force roll" that you speak of, or the alternative of felating the GM.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2020, 07:08:33 PM by Itachi »

Kyle Aaron

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Strategy in Dialogue
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2020, 11:34:47 PM »
Quote from: Lady_of_Pain;1132713
I think it's odd that despite gaming sessions having far more dialogue than combat - in my personal observations - the combat system designs are intended to be fair, colorful and balanced whereas dialogue gets a simple persuasion mechanic.  
It's because there's so much dialogue in a game session that we don't usually have much in the way of rules for it - every time you have to look up a rule or a chart or roll the dice, things slow down, and if you slow down the thing that makes up most of the session, people get bored.

In general, I'm in favour of rules where the player can describe what their character is trying to achieve, and then we roll the dice to see how well they do it. It's nice to roleplay it all sometimes, but I like the rules as a backup because - well, do you really want to roleplay a seduction at a game table with those guys at the game table? Do you want to roleplay that scene of torturing the orc for information? I'm happy with some things having a "fade to black" with the roll of the dice as the soundtrack. And if you want to get into the details, well that's okay, too - the dice can tell you how well you went. Maybe that seductive or torturous move that never worked before just happens to work on this one, maybe the move that almost always works doesn't now.

In GAMERS, you have three mental and three physical stats. Grit, awareness, mind, endurance, reflexes and strength. These can act as hit points. Physical conflicts involve knocking the physical stats down. If you want to, then mental/social conflicts knock the physical stats down. You know when you get into a late night internet argument and post replies instantly, and at some point you become less coherent and can't remember basic stuff you learned years ago? You're losing a mental conflict!

I do kind of like that approach, but in playtest, players didn't, for the reasons above. So I dropped it. But it's an idea.
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Itachi

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Strategy in Dialogue
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2020, 10:50:01 AM »
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1140446
It's because there's so much dialogue in a game session that we don't usually have much in the way of rules for it - every time you have to look up a rule or a chart or roll the dice, things slow down, and if you slow down the thing that makes up most of the session, people get bored.
I think it's fair to say that no one wants all dialogues "rolled", only what's potentially interesting or impactful for the adventure/story. Same for any dice roll, really.

Quote
In GAMERS, you have three mental and three physical stats. Grit, awareness, mind, endurance, reflexes and strength. These can act as hit points. Physical conflicts involve knocking the physical stats down. If you want to, then mental/social conflicts knock the physical stats down. You know when you get into a late night internet argument and post replies instantly, and at some point you become less coherent and can't remember basic stuff you learned years ago? You're losing a mental conflict!

I do kind of like that approach, but in playtest, players didn't, for the reasons above. So I dropped it. But it's an idea.
I like that. :)

Marvel Heroic turns that around: you track 3 types of Stress (phys, mental, emotion). When someone engages you in one of those ways, they gain bonus dice the same size of that stress to use against you. If your Stress becomes too big, no matter the type, you pass out.

Another approach i like is the idea of condition tags. Someone can apply those to you as a result of a dialogue, heated discussion, tease or taint, etc. or even a kiss! If they do it (and you gain, let's say, "Afraid"), then someone else gains a bonus for taking advantage of that, or you gain some disadvantage on situations related to the condition. A bunch of Cortex, Fate and PbtA games are like that.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 12:31:25 PM by Itachi »