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Author Topic: Please help me adapt a D&D wizard's spells into broad skill categories.  (Read 557 times)

abcd_z

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I'm trying to convert D&D to Fudge and I have everything but the spell categories figured out.  Instead of memorizing spells a wizard would just roll their skill against the spell difficulty to see if the spell succeeds.  I want these skills to be roughly balanced against each other, so that no one skill list is obviously more useful than another. I want each skill to be roughly as useful as a melee combat skill or a broad thievery skill (so obviously I can't just put every spell under the same skill).  I don't want a player to have to look anything up.  If a player said, "I specialize in fire spells", that's pretty straightforward.  Their character could probably cast spells like fireball and burning hands, and they wouldn't have to look up any actual spells.  On the other hand, if they said, "I'm an abjuration specialist," I'd probably have to check a list of spells to see what they could actually do with that, which is not what I'm looking for.

Any suggestions?  I've found a few ideas online, but nothing that seems like it would work as a drop-in replacement for a wizard in a dungeon crawl.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 07:11:14 AM by abcd_z »

AsenRG

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Please help me adapt a D&D wizard's spells into broad skill categories.
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2017, 08:27:07 AM »
Creo, Intellego, Muto, Perdo, Rego-Animal affects "all natural living things that are not plants or humans, doing to animals what Mentem and Corpus spells do to people" as well as "things made with animal products" such as leather, wool, cheese, silk, etc. Since bacteria were unknown in medieval times, illness (e.g.) was considered either a form of possession or an imbalance of 'bodily humors'; thus, magic dealing with disease is relegated variously to Creo, Mentem and/or Vim effects.
Creo, Intellego, Muto, Perdo, Rego-Auram affects lightning, wind and gaseous substances; other weather effects typically require an Aquam requisite (see below).
Creo, Intellego, Muto, Perdo, Rego-Aquam is used for any liquid, with the exception of blood (which requires Animal or Corpus magic to affect); non-liquid forms of water will involve requisites (see below).
Creo, Intellego, Muto, Perdo, Rego-Corpus (the incorrect declension Corporem was used in older editions) applies to the human body, making it crucial to longevity formulas.
Creo, Intellego, Muto, Perdo, Rego-Herbam primarily involves plants, but applies equally to any organic matter, living or dead, that is not of animal origin.
Creo, Intellego, Muto, Perdo, Rego-Ignem involves light and heat, and is heavily represented in the fire spells of House Flambeau.
Creo, Intellego, Muto, Perdo, Rego-Imaginem (previously Imagonem) deals with images, sounds, and other sensory stimuli (thus is involved in most illusionary effects).
Creo, Intellego, Muto, Perdo, Rego-Mentem deals with emotions, memories, thoughts and spirits.
Creo, Intellego, Muto, Perdo, Rego-Terram involves earth and minerals: mere soil is the simplest target, while stone, metal and gems require progressively greater investment of spell levels to achieve the same effect.
Creo, Intellego, Muto, Perdo, Rego-Vim ("power") involves magic itself, as well as demons (the overlap is not widely understood, but the fact that there is one is a significant obstacle to the Order's 'public relations', particularly concerning the Church).


I guess you get where I'm going with this:D?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 08:34:40 AM by AsenRG »
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estar

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Please help me adapt a D&D wizard's spells into broad skill categories.
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2017, 09:04:48 AM »
I got a couple of things that may help.

A copy of the fantasy fudges rules I worked on based on my Majestic Wilderlands.

http://www.batintheattic.com/downloads/MajesticRealmsRPG_Fudge_Rev%2017.zip

Note the stuff on the arts of magic.

This is a link to the D&D spells I use in my Majestic Wilderlands RPG. At the end of the documents is all the spell catagorized into the arts of magic.
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0Bx9oLF40m-b8aTFodVA2dEtITlU

In OSRIC (as in AD&D) the spells are categorized by type. That may be useful. Kellri put up a spreadsheet you can use.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8l15nXmXT3BMy02dTJYM0VpRFU/view

estar

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Please help me adapt a D&D wizard's spells into broad skill categories.
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2017, 09:09:37 AM »
Quote from: AsenRG;955708
I guess you get where I'm going with this:D?

The problem is there are gaps at various spell levels when you attempt to categorize them into techniques, arts, etc, etc. Ars Magica's noun-verb system just makes it worse.

Of all the editions of D&D Pathfinder SRD and D20 SRD have the longest lists of spells.

For me for now I just live with the gaps in my published version as it will take time to prove out any additional spells during a campaign.

AsenRG

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Please help me adapt a D&D wizard's spells into broad skill categories.
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2017, 01:57:01 PM »
Quote from: estar;955719
The problem is there are gaps at various spell levels when you attempt to categorize them into techniques, arts, etc, etc. Ars Magica's noun-verb system just makes it worse.

Of all the editions of D&D Pathfinder SRD and D20 SRD have the longest lists of spells.

For me for now I just live with the gaps in my published version as it will take time to prove out any additional spells during a campaign.

Sure, but why do we assume a magic system should be able to cover anything:)?

Or you can take a list of the powers from a supers RPG and let them be able to do that. After all, "fire magic" is exactly that;).
« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 02:17:54 PM by AsenRG »
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estar

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Please help me adapt a D&D wizard's spells into broad skill categories.
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2017, 08:28:48 AM »
Quote from: AsenRG;955760
Sure, but why do we assume a magic system should be able to cover anything:)?

Yeah magic is as arbitrary as it gets but if you find a system has having Perdo Imaginem then you need some details in the form of spells or effects. Otherwise the reader is going "huh?". The stuff he posted in the OP is similar to Ars Magica which use a noun verb system.

The system has been out since 1990 and got a lot of stuff behind it now (currently 5th edition). But in the beginning it was pretty thin on actual spells and it magic system wasn't tied to some effect system like the Hero System is. There was some loose guidelines particularly on what Hermetic magic could or could not do. However it was a lot of trial and error on the group's part to come up with new spells that were not whacked one way or the other.

One reason I kept the classic D&D spells 'as-is' despite tinkering with the rest of it is that core list of spells have decades of actual play behind them. It may not be the perfect list of spells but you know what you are getting with them.

AsenRG

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Please help me adapt a D&D wizard's spells into broad skill categories.
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2017, 09:53:47 AM »
I feel quite comfortable with the effect of all Arsen Magical spells being "whatever we think they should be able to do", personally;).
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abcd_z

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Please help me adapt a D&D wizard's spells into broad skill categories.
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2017, 11:27:03 PM »
The problem with AM spells is as follows: Fudge doesn't combine skills very well.  I'm thinking of just giving players access to nouns and verbs, then say that each noun gives full access to all the verbs, and each verb gives access to all the nouns.  So somebody with skill in, say, alteration spells, would be able to alter mind, body, magic, elements, etc; while somebody who is a fire mage would be able to, among other things, create, move, alter, and destroy fire.  In a situation where a player has overlapping skills, they would just use the highest one.  

Here are the verbs I came up with:  

Attack/Destroy
Move/Transform
Illusion/illumination
Heal/repair
Communication
Sense/Divination
Enhance/Weaken

Optional:
Mental manipulation/control
Summon
Teleport

I'm not as certain about the nouns.  I want to balance them so that they're useful but not overpowered.  Here's what I have for those:

Mind
Body
Magic
A material (specific physical object or component)
A sense (sight, hearing, etc.)
An element (fire, earth, lightning, acid, sound, light, etc.)
« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 11:55:14 PM by abcd_z »

AsenRG

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Please help me adapt a D&D wizard's spells into broad skill categories.
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2017, 12:33:53 AM »
That's why I was suggesting giving them access to the specific verb and noun combo, and rating it as a separate skill, instead.
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"Life is not fair. If the campaign setting is somewhat like life then the setting also is sometimes not fair." - Bren