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Nutkinland 4.0: D&D sacred cows vs. design features

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Nicephorus:

--- Quote from: Xavier Lang ---Your not going far enough.  Most religions presented in D&D shouldn't have some special ability to assault undead.  Sure, rework turn undead, but make it a potential cleric/paladin ability depending on the religion.  
--- End quote ---

In 2e, the priests' handbook encouraged this. Then, in 3e, they went for simple - all clerics affect undead whether or not it makes sense.

I agree that tying it to domains would be a good way to do it.  Then DM's would have several off-the-rack special abilities to choose from.  This would require giving all of the domains interesting abilities - no more +1 caster level junk.

Radu the Wanderer:
I'd also like to see mundane skills get a rework... not much but a bit.

Iron Heroes skill groups are awesome!  That's a great idea, and one I'd like to see incorporated elsewhere, except with magic in the mix it becomes WAY too powerful.

::Prepare for blasphemy::

I would like to see Heal in particular become more useful, and spells in general less so.  It would be nice if a party could survive without magic, and equally nice if magicians could survive without it.  They wouldn't neccessarily have to be very powerful without it, but it would be a step in the right direction.  I think the Warlock from Complete Arcane and the Ninja from Complete Adventurer are both steps in the right direction for this--- powerful stuff, but nobody's gonna write home about how they broke the game with either.

Enkhidu:

--- Quote from: Xavier Lang ---Your not going far enough.  Most religions presented in D&D shouldn't have some special ability to assault undead.  Sure, rework turn undead, but make it a potential cleric/paladin ability depending on the religion...
--- End quote ---


My group (planning for the next long term game) is currently looking at this one. Right now we're leaning toward "turning like in the movies."

Turn Undead opens up for those who are devout members of the faith (and it is not longer a cleric/paladin only ability). Turning becomes a full round action, usable only with a holy symbol (using a makeshift symbol gives a -2 penalty to the check, masterwork gives a +2 bonus), but does not cause the undead subject to flee. Instead it provides an (Ex) Magic Circle like effect that hedges out the turned undead rather than outsiders. Maintaining the Turn is a full round action. In addition, the turner can make a touch attack against the turnee with their holy symbol (though this requires a standard or masterwork symbol) to either cause positive energy damage (maybe 1d6 for every two character levels or something similar?) or to bring the undead under their control (in the case of negative channelers).

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