In response to a question in another thread, I figured I wouldn't threadjack that one.
Quote from: Madprofessor;927541I am totally off track here, but is this your RQ6/Mythras game, or are you running another system? I am always interested in people's Hyborian Age games.
Sorry for the digression.
Yeah, my current Conan game started in Mongoose D20, we switched it over to MRQII, then RQ6, now Mythras. It's a couple years after Hour of the Dragon, so Zingara is a desolate warzone, Aquilonia and Nemedia are rebuilding (so always coin to be made), Ophir and Koth are sure to try and slip the yoke with a recovering Aquilonia, the Border Kingdom has fallen more and more out of Nemedia's control, becoming even more of a nation of fragmented warlords then it already was. With Nemedia unable/unwilling to help, the various Kings of Brythunia are coming more under pressure from Hyperborean and Turanian raiders. The need for mercenaries is high, not only to protect the people, but also for the war that may ensue if one or more of the Kings attempt to unite Brythunia. So, lots of places for PCs to get rich or die trying.
I'm using Mythras with Seidr from RQ2 Vikings, and Runes from Mythic Iceland, I've incorporated Monster Island and the Smoking Mirrors (their Jadestone fits in nicely with the ancient "Greenstone Cities" scattered across Howard's works. There's other things I've pulled in from different d100 sources, particularly Call of Ctulhu.
I can answer other questions if you're interested.
I thought Mythic Iceland is a BRP supplement, how did you convert it?
Well, yeah, I'd like to know how/where you started your PCs and a basic overview of the direction the campaign has taken.
One issue I have had when running Hyborian Age campaigns is keeping the PC together, cooperating and focused on similar tasks/adventures.
Quote from: AsenRG;927577I thought Mythic Iceland is a BRP supplement, how did you convert it?
Most of the Runes from Mythical Iceland are types of modifiers so Stats, Skills, etc are the same. For HP bonus I just divide by 4, so +4 HPs is +1 to each location, +8 HPs is +2, etc... Additional dice to damage I do a damage die shift. They're minor changes, really.
The Runes from Mythic Iceland are for carved Rune scripts, the Seidr spells from MRQII are for the sung Runes.
Quote from: Madprofessor;927578Well, yeah, I'd like to know how/where you started your PCs and a basic overview of the direction the campaign has taken.
One issue I have had when running Hyborian Age campaigns is keeping the PC together, cooperating and focused on similar tasks/adventures.
Group 1 is a group of 4 Vanir. So, it's kind of easy to keep them together.
Group 2 is a Zingaran Rogue, a Bossonian Scout, an Aquilonian Alchemist, and a South Islander Witch Finder. That one's a little tougher to find motivation. They're basically following the lead of the Rogue now, but the Bossonian has long term plans that involve leaving Zingara.
Group 3 is a Hyrkanian Rider, a Cimmerian warrior, a Borderer Scout, a Nemedian Scholar and an Aquilonian Scholar. Right now they are following the Cimmerian's lead, but I am predicting a possible split there too. I can go into more detail when I get more time.
A short answer is try, if you can, to make sure that every party only has one super ambitious, driven, alpha character with a set goal, splitting the party if necessary. Splitting parties is how I ended up with three groups to begin with.
What is PC mortality like? Do they die often? Never? Do you find that the fates of the PCs (for good or ill) correlate with the tone in Howard's stories, or is that even a concern?
Quote from: daniel_ream;927619What is PC mortality like? Do they die often? Never? Do you find that the fates of the PCs (for good or ill) correlate with the tone in Howard's stories, or is that even a concern?
So far there have been lots of Serious wounds but only one Major, which didn't lead to death due to good rolling. I don't do Passions or use Mook rules, so the foes they facing are definitely capable of killing them. I have a lifepath system I use during chargen so the PCs start out with more Skill Points than standard, and if lucky, they might have a primary skill a little higher than standard for their age. This is kind of a nod to the S&S trope of more skilled PCs, but for us genre is better done through the setting than the system. They've had some near deaths from bleedouts, some tricky surgeries thanks to Impaled Pict arrows (Shark Tribe Picts were using Shark Tooth arrows so counted as Barbed, nasty to remove).
The Vanir have had it easiest, because their Volva actually has a healing song to fix minor wounds. One group has a Folk Magic healing spell (which I've downgraded to just shifting Healing Rate one time cycle faster,so really a regen). The other one has been getting by with First Aid and Healing. I do Power Point regen of 1/week naturally, so without drugs/herbs/meditation at certain power sites/sacrifices spell use has to be careful. The South Islander animist has a bound gorilla spirit that can boost his damage and hit points, so he's covered in scars but has been crushing shit left and right with his greatclub. He keeps the Gorilla Spirit happy by letting it possess him every full moon and gorge itself on food, drink and women.
Basically, they've been surviving by playing smart. Taking advantage of terrain and using outmaneuvre to prevent being ganged up on, using stealth and ambush to good effect. And when heavily outnumbered, even Conan bailed now and then when his back wasn't to the wall. Also they make good use of shields and opening volleys with missile/thrown weapons.
Luck points so far have been used pretty exclusively as backup Action Points for Parrying or downgrading a Major Wound to a Serious.
So far no PC has died. One lost an eye, a couple have lost permanent HPs on body parts, one survived disease, but the only death was an NPC who got his head pulped and splattered by a mace. So, Luck is doing its job of helping them survive...barely.
They liked Conan D20, but they like this a lot better.
Man, your campaign(s) sound like a hoot.
In addition to Mythic Iceland Runes and MRQ2 Vikings Seidr, what other magic systems have you deployed? Are any if your PCs actual magic-users beyond the Folk Magic tier? (Curious about the Alchemist and Scholars.)
Also, what did you pull from CoC? Monsters? (Hit locations probably a nightmare) Magic?
Quote from: The Butcher;927675Man, your campaign(s) sound like a hoot.
In addition to Mythic Iceland Runes and MRQ2 Vikings Seidr, what other magic systems have you deployed? Are any if your PCs actual magic-users beyond the Folk Magic tier? (Curious about the Alchemist and Scholars.)
Also, what did you pull from CoC? Monsters? (Hit locations probably a nightmare) Magic?
As far as Sorcery, one of the Scholars has a scroll they found, and is working on deciphering it. I cribbed from the D20 Conan Sorcery rules to make learning spells a more involved process. There hasn't been any "easy" access to Sorcery, ie. dealing with a demon or some other power.
No one yet is a Theist per se. The list of Theist spells I'm going to allow I haven't decided yet, it keeps changing :D.
The Alchemist so far is focused on Medicines and Poisons, and whenever he can, trying to uncover research on the different types of Lotus and their different formulae.
No Mystics yet, but based on the mischief Howard allowed some of the antagonists from the east to get up to, there's certainly evidence for them.
As far as CoC or BRP conversions go, I made up an excel sheet that calculates all the Hit Locations, Skill Bases, Movement Rate modifiers etc, all I have to do is plug in the standard chaosium stat array.
Deep Ones have made an appearance and there are definitely some CoC spells I will use, but there hasn't been a lot of Mythos stuff.
Quote from: CRKrueger;927714As far as Sorcery, one of the Scholars has a scroll they found, and is working on deciphering it. I cribbed from the D20 Conan Sorcery rules to make learning spells a more involved process. There hasn't been any "easy" access to Sorcery, ie. dealing with a demon or some other power.
No one yet is a Theist per se. The list of Theist spells I'm going to allow I haven't decided yet, it keeps changing :D.
The Alchemist so far is focused on Medicines and Poisons, and whenever he can, trying to uncover research on the different types of Lotus and their different formulae.
No Mystics yet, but based on the mischief Howard allowed some of the antagonists from the east to get up to, there's certainly evidence for them.
As far as CoC or BRP conversions go, I made up an excel sheet that calculates all the Hit Locations, Skill Bases, Movement Rate modifiers etc, all I have to do is plug in the standard chaosium stat array.
Deep Ones have made an appearance and there are definitely some CoC spells I will use, but there hasn't been a lot of Mythos stuff.
Love the low magic approach. really. Keeps it mysterious, and rare. I love it when pcs are thrilled to find a small pile of rare reagents, instead of yawning at finding a magic ring.
Quote from: CRKrueger;927714As far as Sorcery, one of the Scholars has a scroll they found, and is working on deciphering it. I cribbed from the D20 Conan Sorcery rules to make learning spells a more involved process. There hasn't been any "easy" access to Sorcery, ie. dealing with a demon or some other power.
No one yet is a Theist per se. The list of Theist spells I'm going to allow I haven't decided yet, it keeps changing :D.
The Alchemist so far is focused on Medicines and Poisons, and whenever he can, trying to uncover research on the different types of Lotus and their different formulae.
No Mystics yet, but based on the mischief Howard allowed some of the antagonists from the east to get up to, there's certainly evidence for them.
Very cool thread. Thank you.
For me, magic in the Hyborian age is tough to portray well in an RPG. I mean, there is magic or supernatural in all of the REH stories, it is a primary theme, so it is not exactly rare. However, magic users are never protagonists. Magic is not reliable, scientific or formulaic. There is no reason behind it. So the instant you create a "magic system" for PCs to use you lose some of the unknowable strangeness that characterizes it. On a literary level, magic, like civilization, is unnatural, an abomination, and therefore inherently evil. It represents the unknown and the unknowable. In Conan's world, conquest is easier than understanding.
Invariably, someone want's to play a sorcerer though, which means revealing some fraction of the unknowable to the players and losing some of the mystery. Oh well.
Anyway, one of the cooler suggestions in RQ6 is limiting access to magic points and magic point recovery, so just because a character knows a spell does not mean they have the power to cast it, or to reliably repeat it. It looks like you are limiting access to spells, and types of magic, do you also limit access to magic points?
It also looks like you have given some PCs healing magic, which could be seen as a miraculous or god-like power, certainly not something you would want to throw into the game lightly, how did you spin it?
Quote from: CRKrueger;927617Group 1 is a group of 4 Vanir. So, it's kind of easy to keep them together.
Group 2 is a Zingaran Rogue, a Bossonian Scout, an Aquilonian Alchemist, and a South Islander Witch Finder. That one's a little tougher to find motivation. They're basically following the lead of the Rogue now, but the Bossonian has long term plans that involve leaving Zingara.
Group 3 is a Hyrkanian Rider, a Cimmerian warrior, a Borderer Scout, a Nemedian Scholar and an Aquilonian Scholar. Right now they are following the Cimmerian's lead, but I am predicting a possible split there too. I can go into more detail when I get more time.
A short answer is try, if you can, to make sure that every party only has one super ambitious, driven, alpha character with a set goal, splitting the party if necessary. Splitting parties is how I ended up with three groups to begin with.
That's interesting. Are you suggesting troupe-like play kind of like Ars Magica? With a central character and supporting cast for each group? I never thought of that before. Maybe I'm off target though. Can you elaborate?
One of the tough things about getting Conan to sync up with an RPG is that all of the S&S heroic lit revolves around a strong central character. It is hard to run a group of heroic equals and still get that sword and sorcery vibe. In fact, when I allow for heroic (or Conan equivalent) characters I am constantly fighting to keep multiple egos and character motivations/goals/backgrounds etc focused in the same direction without railroading. My response, and it has worked fairly well, is to run non-heroic characters. It's a little more WFRP-ish, I guess. It allows PCs to explore and experience the Hyborian Age with a sense of wonder, but it also forces some cooperation for mutual protection. On the downside, you lose that sense of heroism. It is certainly not a perfect solution.
Quote from: Madprofessor;928438That's interesting. Are you suggesting troupe-like play kind of like Ars Magica? With a central character and supporting cast for each group? I never thought of that before. Maybe I'm off target though. Can you elaborate?
One of the tough things about getting Conan to sync up with an RPG is that all of the S&S heroic lit revolves around a strong central character. It is hard to run a group of heroic equals and still get that sword and sorcery vibe. In fact, when I allow for heroic (or Conan equivalent) characters I am constantly fighting to keep multiple egos and character motivations/goals/backgrounds etc focused in the same direction without railroading. My response, and it has worked fairly well, is to run non-heroic characters. It's a little more WFRP-ish, I guess. It allows PCs to explore and experience the Hyborian Age with a sense of wonder, but it also forces some cooperation for mutual protection. On the downside, you lose that sense of heroism. It is certainly not a perfect solution.
Not troupe play as it's known in Ars Magica.
The Vanir group is...
1. A warrior, he's the strongest of the group, also the shipbuilder, so it was his small coastal ship that they attempted to take onto the open sea, so he kind of became the captain by default. He has a very strong goal of seeing the world, gaining glory/fame/riches and killing a man/bedding a woman of every race of the South.
2. A Siedkona/Priestess of Atali - The others listen to her when she speaks as the Voice of Ymir/Atali, but she doesn't attempt to take control in war, tactics, or day to day operations, even though technically, from a strategic standpoint, she's in charge.
3. A Gothi/Shaman - He's not an Animist (at least not yet) but knows some Runes and does some Runecarving.
4. A Hunter/Scout - He has no interest in running things.
There is very little regimentation, but generally speaking, the Warrior leads, the rest advise based on their specialty. The Siedkona has only pulled strings once I think, and the rest got in line.
So I think it's just good roleplaying that has them actually take on their cultural roles.
Another group has...
1. Brythunian Scholar - This character is really the reason for another group. Rolling on Background Tables from Mythras, she got Secret Knowledge of her family, which since she was from Brythunia, could have been related to Ancient Acheron. So the secret is the legend of another Stygian God that is the sworn enemy of Set, like Ibis/Thoth. Sokar. This Scholar has the long-term goal of bringing the worship of this god back to the world and fighting Set. Her short-term goal is meeting with Kalanthes of Ibis, pretty much the opposite of the first group, who is currently enjoying running a pirate ship.
2. Cimmerian warrior - The nominal leader, this character's goal is getting coin via mercenary work.
3. Hyrkanian Rider - This character's current long-term goal is to head to Eastern Shem and acquire some horses from the Zuagir. If she takes two years of roaming, to get there, so be it.
4. A Nemedian Scholar - This character is interested in helping the other Scholar and finding out about magic.
5. Borderer Scout - This character is sleeping with the Hyrkanian for the moment, so pretty much has that goal.
This group may be headed for a split at some point, but so far no one has a diametically opposed goal.
Conan normally travels alone, not a problem.
Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser have their shared misery and lack of desire to live that gets them together, and later, their shared history, but, they do run cross purposes occasionally, mainly because of their patrons.
A group of 4-5 S&S heroes who all have their own strong goals that are different...not really tenable unless the characters can come to some kind of accomodation.
Quote from: Madprofessor;928433It also looks like you have given some PCs healing magic, which could be seen as a miraculous or god-like power, certainly not something you would want to throw into the game lightly, how did you spin it?
I don't restrict Magic Points, just Magic Point regeneration.
As far as healing goes, the Heal Wound Galdrar (Galdrar is a song where you're singing a runescript) requires binding the wound, and the healing occurs over time until the next dawn. It costs 1 Magic Point per Point of damage healed, so is pretty costly, not something you do to "top up", especially with the slow regen. Traditional healing is always used first. It takes the normal number of minutes for Healing Skill plus an additional minute per hit point healed, so very much not a combat spell.
Even though the Seidr spells aren't Theism per se by the rules, they are taught to the Seidkona by the Cult of Ymir, so it is seen as part of their religion, but more knowledge taught by Ymir rather than a miracle performed by Ymir. As such, it's probably better considered a unique type of Sorcery. Now, I made the religion pretty dark and bloody, with lots of blood sacrifices and rituals, so even though the MP expenditure is high, it can be offset.
For example, the Vanir hunter took a nasty Serious Wound to the chest (that aforementioned Pict Shark Arrow). The Vanir had a couple of Barachan sailors that they had taken captive as thralls. The Siedkona and Shaman did a healing ritual (Using their Rites: Ymir skill). The Seidkona carved runes of healing in her hands and began singing the Heal Wound Galdrar, while the Gothi carved the song runes into the chest of one of the thralls. The Seidkona healed the hunter drawing the power to do so from the sacrificial thrall (using her Seidr skill) Once the healing was done, she cut out the beating heart of the thrall and offered it up to Ymir to place it smoking on his board (using her Exhort skill). An icy wind rose, the heart erupted into blue flame and disappeared, leaving a rime of ice on the Seidkona's hands. When the ice melted, her hands were healed and the next dawn, the Hunter's wound was only Light, and he was fully healed within a couple of days. Basically a Seidr casting augmented by properly performed religious ritual, but no "Miracle Casting" by RAW.
Of course, if she had failed her Exhort roll...attracting Ymir's attention and not pleasing him is generally considered to be a Bad Thing. :D
So the sacrificial healing ritual isn't going to be a quick repeat I don't think.
The other character who has healing, the Nemedian scholar has only the Heal Folk Magic spell. He learned it from an old country Midwife in the hills of Brythunia. You have to properly bind the wound, if the Healing skill fails, the spell does nothing. You also have to have properly prepared healing herbs for a poultice. If done correctly, what the spell does is use the power of the caster to bring out the essential nature of the plants used, which allows the recipient to shift the Healing Rate by one category. So for wounds
Light wound shift from X points/day to X points/hour.
Serious Wounds shift from X points/week to X points/day.
Major Wounds shift from X points/month to X points/week.
So, not very overt, but not very powerful either, and relys upon other skills.
Quote from: Madprofessor;928433Very cool thread. Thank you.
For me, magic in the Hyborian age is tough to portray well in an RPG. I mean, there is magic or supernatural in all of the REH stories, it is a primary theme, so it is not exactly rare. However, magic users are never protagonists. Magic is not reliable, scientific or formulaic. There is no reason behind it.
I'm not sure that you can claim "no reason" behind it. The Laws of Magic may not be the Laws of Science, but that doesn't mean they are completely random and chaotic. The Sorcerers and beings Conan encounters seem to have at times quite complicated sets of rules they must follow even if they don't make sense to the uninitiated. Take for example, "Beyond the Black River", where Conan understands enough to make use of the Rune of Jhebbal Sag, and the conversation between the Forest Devil and Conan in where the demon explain's Conan's trespass and why his soul is forfeit. Not magic as weird physics, but a sense to it nonetheless.
Quote from: Madprofessor;928433So the instant you create a "magic system" for PCs to use you lose some of the unknowable strangeness that characterizes it. On a literary level, magic, like civilization, is unnatural, an abomination, and therefore inherently evil. It represents the unknown and the unknowable. In Conan's world, conquest is easier than understanding.
Yeah, that's always the Big One, PC Magicians, Yes or No. I can completely see the argument for NPC magic only, but at the same time, you lose the capability of players making that choice, deciding to read that book or not, to burn that scroll or save it...to find out if best intentions and magic will always pave the Road to Hell or not. I made my choice and crossed that Rubicon, now I just have to make it as S&S as I can.
Quote from: Madprofessor;928433Invariably, someone want's to play a sorcerer though, which means revealing some fraction of the unknowable to the players and losing some of the mystery. Oh well.
I'm taking some inspiration from DCC, d20 Conan and RQ Chaos magic, trying to come up with a good set of corruptions that can occur with Sorcery. As far as Priests go, any Theist who doesn't spend a goodly amount of time propitiating their deity appropriately is going to find calling on them a very bad idea.
Of course, there's always the setting consequence, of being alienated, hated, burned at the stake, crucified, hunted by the Black Ring or other sorcerers who want to steal your knowledge, power and soul, etc... :D
Quote from: CRKrueger;928546Not magic as weird physics, but a sense to it nonetheless.
Not magic as weird physics, but magic as legal contract. Pre-D&Dized fantasy, magic (both fictional and as practiced in the real world) was pretty universally seen as the result of a pact between the magician and some form of intelligent otherworldly power. Which means that magic works only so much as the two of you are still in agreement on the terms.
Yeah, that's definitely a huge chunk of it. Also there's evidence of things that may be totally alien, but work because that's just how they work. The Rune of Jhebbal Sag is one example, the Master Words & Signs Pelias knows are another.
Quote from: CRKrueger;928537I don't restrict Magic Points, just Magic Point regeneration.
So how do you handle MP regeneration?
I have been tinkering with a few ideas that eliminate "natural" MP regeneration as functional power healing altogether. It seems to me that one of the best ways to make magic "rare" but powerful is to restrict access to MPs so that acquiring the power to cast a spell is half the equation of sorcery (the other being the acquisition of knowledge, the spell itself). Just because you know a spell doesn't mean you can cast it, you need to gather the MPs to make it work. Rituals, sacrifice, arcane connections, devices, meditation, contacting spirits or demons, waiting for the stars to align, etc are used to generate the MPs used to power spells. I am however unsure how far to take the idea. Maybe there is no generic MPs at all, that power gathered is always for a specific purpose or spell. Maybe characters should not have MP pools at all and should be manipulators or gatherers of sorcery rather than vessels. Mythras is perfectly capable of handling that kind of mechanical alteration as a setting rule.
A complication is that to get really flavorful with this kind of mana accumulation you almost need separate MP rituals for each spell in each magical tradition. For example, a scrying spell might require contacting and negotiating with a raven spirit for a shamman of Jhebbal Sag, but an adept from Vendhya or Khitai might draw his power by emptying his consciousness and filling it with the void of the cosmos or something. It would of course be a lot of work to detail this all out.
QuoteAs far as healing goes, the Heal Wound Galdrar (Galdrar is a song where you're singing a runescript) requires binding the wound, and the healing occurs over time until the next dawn. It costs 1 Magic Point per Point of damage healed, so is pretty costly, not something you do to "top up", especially with the slow regen. Traditional healing is always used first. It takes the normal number of minutes for Healing Skill plus an additional minute per hit point healed, so very much not a combat spell.
Even though the Seidr spells aren't Theism per se by the rules, they are taught to the Seidkona by the Cult of Ymir, so it is seen as part of their religion, but more knowledge taught by Ymir rather than a miracle performed by Ymir. As such, it's probably better considered a unique type of Sorcery. Now, I made the religion pretty dark and bloody, with lots of blood sacrifices and rituals, so even though the MP expenditure is high, it can be offset.
For example, the Vanir hunter took a nasty Serious Wound to the chest (that aforementioned Pict Shark Arrow). The Vanir had a couple of Barachan sailors that they had taken captive as thralls. The Siedkona and Shaman did a healing ritual (Using their Rites: Ymir skill). The Seidkona carved runes of healing in her hands and began singing the Heal Wound Galdrar, while the Gothi carved the song runes into the chest of one of the thralls. The Seidkona healed the hunter drawing the power to do so from the sacrificial thrall (using her Seidr skill) Once the healing was done, she cut out the beating heart of the thrall and offered it up to Ymir to place it smoking on his board (using her Exhort skill). An icy wind rose, the heart erupted into blue flame and disappeared, leaving a rime of ice on the Seidkona's hands. When the ice melted, her hands were healed and the next dawn, the Hunter's wound was only Light, and he was fully healed within a couple of days. Basically a Seidr casting augmented by properly performed religious ritual, but no "Miracle Casting" by RAW.
Of course, if she had failed her Exhort roll...attracting Ymir's attention and not pleasing him is generally considered to be a Bad Thing. :D
So the sacrificial healing ritual isn't going to be a quick repeat I don't think.
This is very flavorful and appropriate. It's not far off from what I am shooting for. The trouble I am having is how to approach these kind of modifications systemically. My hunch here is that you are approaching magic and spells on a case by case basis as they come up in play rather than a system wide set of house rules. Is this correct?
Quote from: CRKrueger;928546I'm not sure that you can claim "no reason" behind it. The Laws of Magic may not be the Laws of Science, but that doesn't mean they are completely random and chaotic.
Yes, I probably overstated my case about the mysteriousness of sorcery. In fact, gaining a glimpse into the workings of some particular supernatural weirdness is a powerful and common theme in REH and S&S stories. It just seems like every supernatural effect has its own logic.
QuoteYeah, that's always the Big One, PC Magicians, Yes or No. I can completely see the argument for NPC magic only, but at the same time, you lose the capability of players making that choice, deciding to read that book or not, to burn that scroll or save it...to find out if best intentions and magic will always pave the Road to Hell or not. I made my choice and crossed that Rubicon, now I just have to make it as S&S as I can.
Magic is S&S is fun so I tend allow PC magicians as well.
QuoteI'm taking some inspiration from DCC, d20 Conan and RQ Chaos magic, trying to come up with a good set of corruptions that can occur with Sorcery. As far as Priests go, any Theist who doesn't spend a goodly amount of time propitiating their deity appropriately is going to find calling on them a very bad idea.
Yeah, that is a tough one. There is always a sense that magic is inherently unnatural and therefore evil and dangerous, but I have yet to come up with a very convincing set of consequences for tampering with dark powers besides the social implications of: "being alienated, hated, burned at the stake, crucified, hunted by the Black Ring or other sorcerers who want to steal your knowledge, power and soul, etc."
Quote from: Madprofessor;929319A complication is that to get really flavorful with this kind of mana accumulation you almost need separate MP rituals for each spell in each magical tradition. For example, a scrying spell might require contacting and negotiating with a raven spirit for a shamman of Jhebbal Sag, but an adept from Vendhya or Khitai might draw his power by emptying his consciousness and filling it with the void of the cosmos or something. It would of course be a lot of work to detail this all out.
Mythras/RQ6
really doesn't do a good enough job of explaining what to do with the tools they give you. Tuning MP regeneration is probably the biggest customization tool and they don't give enough examples. It's extremely hackable, but you're given a set of hand tools and asked to build a house.
Depending on how much editing power you want to give your players you can always just say "Regenerate X MP with an appropriate ritual" and let the player come up with something. You might want to set some guidelines like minimum time or expense. I tend to really dislike the term "magic system" because the vast majority of non-D&D-inspired fantasy magic is not a predictable system of magical physics, but rather idiosyncratic, unpredictable, and risky. After all, as you say...
QuoteThe trouble I am having is how to approach these kind of modifications systemically. My hunch here is that you are approaching magic and spells on a case by case basis as they come up in play rather than a system wide set of house rules.
...it's thematically appropriate for each spell to be unique.
Quote from: Madprofessor;929326[...] but I have yet to come up with a very convincing set of consequences for tampering with dark powers besides the social implications of: "being alienated, hated, burned at the stake, crucified, hunted by the Black Ring or other sorcerers who want to steal your knowledge, power and soul, etc."
Again, don't think of magic as physics ("I do X, I always get Y with no other or unpredictable consequences") but as a contract with an otherworldly power. In exchange for those MP, occasionally that entity you're entreating with is going to demand you do something. And if you refuse, he's not just going to stop giving you MP, he's going to eat you because fuck, he's not running a charity here. All that supernatural power running through a mortal frame might cause issues - maybe all your body hair falls out (sorcerors are always bald), or your nads shrivel up, or your body fat and muscle tissue gets consumed by the power until you're not much more than skin and bones. Maybe all food tastes like ashes, or the sorceror is consumed by lust he can never consummate (cf nads, shriveled) which explains why they're always kidnapping nubile young maidens. Just docking points from CON as each spell makes the sorceror older
a la The Golden Voyage of Sinbad works.
Quote from: daniel_ream;929335Mythras/RQ6 really doesn't do a good enough job of explaining what to do with the tools they give you. Tuning MP regeneration is probably the biggest customization tool and they don't give enough examples. It's extremely hackable, but you're given a set of hand tools and asked to build a house.
...hmm, never thought of it that way, but I think you're right. The RQ6 magic system is basically a toolbox. Of course, it has enough bones that you could play it straight without much trouble. It's greatest feature though is that it's adaptable, and even though there are pages of suggestions for tool use, you need a fairly clear picture of the final product before you can begin to build.
QuoteDepending on how much editing power you want to give your players you can always just say "Regenerate X MP with an appropriate ritual" and let the player come up with something. You might want to set some guidelines like minimum time or expense.
...or come up with something for them. Either way, if you want that "idiosyncratic, unpredictable, and risky" S&S vibe, I think your stuck coming up with something different for each caster/spell/magical tradition.
QuoteI tend to really dislike the term "magic system"... ...it's thematically appropriate for each spell to be unique.
Exactly, as soon as you say "this is how magic works," you have lost the magic of it. In such a case, it seems almost futile to develop and detail the whole of the "magic of the Hyborian Age." You almost need to focus simply on the unique magical structures for each PC and NPC sorcerer that have a direct impact on the game/region you are running, developing new uniqueness as the PCs encounter them letting the other magics of the world remain in darkness.
QuoteAgain, don't think of magic as physics ("I do X, I always get Y with no other or unpredictable consequences") but as a contract with an otherworldly power. In exchange for those MP, occasionally that entity you're entreating with is going to demand you do something. And if you refuse, he's not just going to stop giving you MP, he's going to eat you because fuck, he's not running a charity here. All that supernatural power running through a mortal frame might cause issues - maybe all your body hair falls out (sorcerors are always bald), or your nads shrivel up, or your body fat and muscle tissue gets consumed by the power until you're not much more than skin and bones. Maybe all food tastes like ashes, or the sorceror is consumed by lust he can never consummate (cf nads, shriveled) which explains why they're always kidnapping nubile young maidens.
Yes, but as a game, you can't really be too arbitrary with the consequences for PC sorcerers, can you? I mean, you don't want to just come out of the blue and tell a PC that his nads shriveled up due to a spell failure do you? You at least need a chart or something where you can point and say "these are the things that could happen to you if you take it too far" or something.
QuoteJust docking points from CON as each spell makes the sorceror older a la The Golden Voyage of Sinbad works.
Yes! Fantastic movie! and I love how it portrays sorcery! Eye of the Tiger too. Again though, CON docking as aging works great for a particular sorcerer, spell, or tradition, but you wouldn't want it as a blanket rule.
Quote from: Madprofessor;929364Yes, but as a game, you can't really be too arbitrary with the consequences for PC sorcerers, can you? I mean, you don't want to just come out of the blue and tell a PC that his nads shriveled up due to a spell failure do you?
I think that you can. For one, Mythras isn't a "balanced" game to start with. One bad roll when you're out of Luck Points and your warrior PC can be short a limb for good. Second, it's thematically appropriate - all S&S/Conan magic is inherently corrupting and nasty, and the PCs should understand that going in. Power has a price, and if they're not willing to pay it, don't play a sorceror.
QuoteYou at least need a chart or something where you can point and say "these are the things that could happen to you if you take it too far" or something.
Nope. I think that undermines the trope of sorcery being inherently dangerous. You don't want players playing the odds like that; as a sorceror, the character would know what sorts of things might happen in fiction terms, and the player should be aware of that, but that's as far as it goes. And the last thing you want is something like the GURPS Unlimited Mana chart where PCs can ration their spellcasting to avoid breakpoints on the chart.
QuoteAgain though, CON docking as aging works great for a particular sorcerer, spell, or tradition, but you wouldn't want it as a blanket rule.
I think it's a trope of the genre that there are lots of different kinds of magic that all look and feel different, yes.
Quote from: Madprofessor;929319So how do you handle MP regeneration?
Short answer is 1MP/week natural regen. So doing that healing spell, if there wasn't a way to mitigate the MP loss, would have taken months to recover from. There are other sources of MP regen I can get into more later.
Quote from: Madprofessor;929319This is very flavorful and appropriate. It's not far off from what I am shooting for. The trouble I am having is how to approach these kind of modifications systemically. My hunch here is that you are approaching magic and spells on a case by case basis as they come up in play rather than a system wide set of house rules. Is this correct?
Pretty much. I'm going on a spell by spell basis to see whether I allow it, how I alter it, and if there will be any special techniques concerning the spell like rituals, etc taught by the Cult in question (if the PC belongs to one). The players don't even bother reading the magic section.
Its great to see this thread. I of course have my own set of house rules for RQ6 Conan, but I like reading how other's apply the rules to satisfy their own interpretations of the Hyborean Age.
Quote from: Pete Nash;929621Its great to see this thread. I of course have my own set of house rules for RQ6 Conan, but I like reading how other's apply the rules to satisfy their own interpretations of the Hyborean Age.
Hi Pete, I'd like to hear your Hyborian Hacks if you feel like sharing anything.
Maybe I'll send you a copy of my own Conan magnum opus one day. But for obvious reasons I haven't released my personal notes so as not to upset Paradox, nor undermine Modiphius' heroic efforts.
Quote from: Pete Nash;929653Maybe I'll send you a copy of my own Conan magnum opus one day. But for obvious reasons I haven't released my personal notes so as not to upset Paradox, nor undermine Modiphius' heroic efforts.
Thanks for stopping by Pete! Of course I understand, but it's still a real shame you can't share.
What I can say is that my personal hack is...
1) Based solely on the original Howard stories
2) Has a 1MP/Month regen rate, with options for quick but risky drawing of MPs from things like sacrifice
3) Uses the Bad Things Happen table from Monster Island if you rush incantations, rather than casting ritually
4) Has a comprehensive spell list of neigh every magical effect listed in the stories (and despite misinformed opinion of S&S tropes there are a lot)
5) Does not offer characteristic bonuses to particular 'races', but instead grants different cultural skill packages
6) Tries its best to grant stats to all the odd weapons and armour of the Hyborean Age
7) Doesn't have too many monsters, as most of those encountered in the tales are already incorporated into Mythras
8) Doesn't incorporate 'Corruption' rules per se, since in my opinion Howard's world view was that it was power that corrupts, not magic. There are a lot of corrupt kings, tribal leaders, non-spell casting priests and so on. Instead I give guidance on how to use Passions to reflect this
I think those were the salient points when I threw it together.
Thanks for sharing, Pete.
You sure you can't post #4 in full? ;)
Quote from: Pete Nash;9306151) Based solely on the original Howard stories
For the most part, me too, but I include Kull and all the others, including his Horror and Mythos stories in there too. Also if there's something that I don't necessarily think contradicts, I might toss it in there (like some MRQII Vikings stuff, or Elric, or Blood Magic or whatever).
Quote from: Pete Nash;9306152) Has a 1MP/Month regen rate, with options for quick but risky drawing of MPs from things like sacrifice
I almost went with 1MP/Month, instead am doing 1MP/week. I may change, the 1MP/month certainly
requires casting ritually, when the stars are right, requiring constant meditation and drugs, or else sacrifice and/or assistance from beings of the Outer Dark.
Quote from: Pete Nash;9306153) Uses the Bad Things Happen table from Monster Island if you rush incantations, rather than casting ritually
Yeah I was thinking of incorporating that, haven't made up my mind yet. Also haven't decided exactly where to drop Monster Island, but it is going in there, somewhere.
Quote from: Pete Nash;9306154) Has a comprehensive spell list of neigh every magical effect listed in the stories (and despite misinformed opinion of S&S tropes there are a lot)
What's your Paypal address? :D
Quote from: Pete Nash;9306155) Does not offer characteristic bonuses to particular 'races', but instead grants different cultural skill packages
I do have some minor characteristic changes, again, more in line with what you guys did in MRQII Vikings, but it's mostly cultural and social class based. I give options for a few extra skills here and there following a LifePath system.
Quote from: Pete Nash;9306156) Tries its best to grant stats to all the odd weapons and armour of the Hyborean Age
This I would really like to see, I tried to list the different bows, knifes, swords etc.
Quote from: Pete Nash;9306157) Doesn't have too many monsters, as most of those encountered in the tales are already incorporated into Mythras
Yeah, with that and Monster Island, there's enough to eyeball the various strains of Apes/Man-Apes. There's a few things like Swamp Devils, Forest Devils, the Forest Ghouls of Zingara I've been working on.
Quote from: Pete Nash;9306158) Doesn't incorporate 'Corruption' rules per se, since in my opinion Howard's world view was that it was power that corrupts, not magic. There are a lot of corrupt kings, tribal leaders, non-spell casting priests and so on. Instead I give guidance on how to use Passions to reflect this
Yeah, I'm torn myself. I think there's certainly a case for Hadrathus and Zelata to not be corrupted by their Power, but even they are kind of creepy, although not necessarily the same way as Thoth-Amon or Tsotha-Lanthi or Zogar Sag. Pelias, though, certainly is the strongest case for corruption, because even though he doesn't seem to be particularly evil or crazy, and might even be what seems to be a more "scientific" type of caster, with his "Higher Science" and "Master Words and Signs", he still has a soul that giant snakes flee from and raises corpses as if it were nothing. But I agree that
all magic doesn't have to
always corrupt. Dangerous as hell, sure, both physically, mentally, and spiritually, especially if you take the quick path to power by bargaining with supernatural beings, but it's not the same say as Mythos Magic in CoC.
Quote from: Pete Nash;930615What I can say is that my personal hack is...
Very cool. Thanks Pete.
QuoteBased solely on the original Howard stories
I like
some of the pastiche. There is a lot of junk to be sure, but I think there is some useful aftermarket stuff that is faithful to REH.
QuoteHas a 1MP/Month regen rate, with options for quick but risky drawing of MPs from things like sacrifice
I'm very interested in how to approach this.
QuoteUses the Bad Things Happen table from Monster Island if you rush incantations, rather than casting ritually
I hadn't really given this a look until now. Wow, it's pretty severe: possible blindness or 3 year aging for a minor failure. Ballsy. I like it.
QuoteHas a comprehensive spell list of neigh every magical effect listed in the stories
Wow. I'm with the Hulk. Ever think about black market RPG writing?
Quote(and despite misinformed opinion of S&S tropes there are a lot)
Agreed. The Hyborian Age isn't "low magic." It's weird (in the pulpy sense) magic.
It would be really nice to have a list of alchemy and psudo-magic as well. There is a lot in mongoose I guess, just takes some converting.
QuoteDoes not offer characteristic bonuses to particular 'races', but instead grants different cultural skill packages
How do you handle "races" CRKrueger? My players and I sometimes argue over this point. They would say, "if you make racial or cultural packages, there is no point in playing a thief unless you are Zamoran" etc. I see cultural stereotyping (as wrong as it is in the real world) as a major component of Howardian fantasy, somewhat immersed in romanticized 1930's social Darwinism.
QuoteDoesn't incorporate 'Corruption' rules per se, since in my opinion Howard's world view was that it was power that corrupts, not magic. There are a lot of corrupt kings, tribal leaders, non-spell casting priests and so on. Instead I give guidance on how to use Passions to reflect this
Interesting take. I hadn't thought of it that way. The few examples of uncorrupted sorcerers always seemed a bit out of place in the stories to me. Mechanically, I always figured they either had the will (or luck) to resist, or the wisdom to refrain. I think you need some kind of mechanical enforcement for corruption. I hadn't thought about using passions in a negative sense.
Any thoughts here on Combat Styles?
Quote from: Pete Nash;930615What I can say is that my personal hack is...
1) Based solely on the original Howard stories
2) Has a 1MP/Month regen rate, with options for quick but risky drawing of MPs from things like sacrifice
3) Uses the Bad Things Happen table from Monster Island if you rush incantations, rather than casting ritually
4) Has a comprehensive spell list of neigh every magical effect listed in the stories (and despite misinformed opinion of S&S tropes there are a lot)
5) Does not offer characteristic bonuses to particular 'races', but instead grants different cultural skill packages
6) Tries its best to grant stats to all the odd weapons and armour of the Hyborean Age
7) Doesn't have too many monsters, as most of those encountered in the tales are already incorporated into Mythras
8) Doesn't incorporate 'Corruption' rules per se, since in my opinion Howard's world view was that it was power that corrupts, not magic. There are a lot of corrupt kings, tribal leaders, non-spell casting priests and so on. Instead I give guidance on how to use Passions to reflect this
I think those were the salient points when I threw it together.
Are you sure you can't at least send it via PM:D?
Is there a Deep Web version of Patreon? Pete has 4 subscribers from this thread alone. :cool:
Quote from: AsenRG;931282Are you sure you can't at least send it via PM:D?
I'll think about it.
I realize that I'm raising an old thread from the dead.
Has anyone done any work like Pete Nash to develop for a Mythras Conan?
Seems like such a great fit.
Quote from: twilliams on June 24, 2021, 10:47:21 AM
I realize that I'm raising an old thread from the dead.
Has anyone done any work like Pete Nash to develop for a Mythras Conan?
Seems like such a great fit.
It would have to be someone with pockets deep enough to challenge CPI's copyrights.
Pete Probably has his own house rules for Hyborian Age, most people do.