As some of you may have gathered from recent posts I've made hereabouts, my 7-year-old son, with whom I've played RPGs in the past (HeroQuest if you didn't know), has recently become exposed to D&D 3E through his friends on the school bus.  They apparently play a very loose, wild, freeform version of the game that might appall some of you here. (My son was baffled by the dice I produced and told me point-blank, "Dad, what are these dice for?  You don't play Dungeons & Dragons with dice." :haw: )  

Now, I used to play 1st edition AD&D myself.  It was the first RPG I ever played, back as a freshman in high school, and our games featured all the good and bad that you'd expect from that combination.  It wasn't long before I grew dissatisfied with the whole level-based system, moved on to Traveller and RuneQuest and swore off D&D forever.  Well, some 30-odd years have gone by (yes, I'm that old), and I've recently become exposed to the 3E myself, through a PbP game here on this site.  I'll admit that I'm surprised and pleased at what they've done with the game.

So, long story short, indulging both my son's interests and mine, I combed a couple of local used book stores and found near-mint copies of the v3.0 PG, DMG, and MM (I'm so very pleased that they've kept the titles identical, even if the contents and organisation have changed significantly), and am supplementing them with an online version of the 3.5 SRD.  Together we've begun to roll up a character or two, and tonight we began his first real D&D campaign.

In this thread, I'm going to post periodic updates about how it's going, both for a first-time D&D-er, and for an old-skool AD&D-er trying to get the hang of the new rules.  Hopefully it will prove interesting, and maybe even instructive.

Cheers,
!i!

I´ll be reading.

I just hope I won't be damaging his brain.

Sorry.  I couldn't resist.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI just hope I won't be damaging his brain.

Sorry.  I couldn't resist.

!i!

Dude, you laugh now.... I saw one guy on Story-Games saying he seriously tried to hide the existence of Dungeons and Dragons from his kid, but the kid found out about anyway, because he saw the D&D cartoon.

Just enough Donny Most and Willie Aames to leave anyone brain damaged!

Quote from: Abyssal MawDude, you laugh now.... I saw one guy on Story-Games saying he seriously tried to hide the existence of Dungeons and Dragons from his kid, but the kid found out about anyway, because he saw the D&D cartoon.

Get. The Fuck. Out.

Now, I'll admit that I've had a pretty dim (and largely unfounded) opinon of anything D&D since about 1980, but then, the last time I actually played the game was in 1983.  I figured my kids would never see it in my home just because I'd made a decision that I had no interest in it myself.  I think, in large part, I have to credit my son for prompting me to open my eyes.

!i!

Well, if my 8 year old is any indication; the real draw of D&D is the miniatures. They look like little toys.

I should post some of the APs of the solo campaign I did with my 8 yr old kid.

Some of the highlights:

I made a deal with him that we wouldn't do character death. (He even gets upset when his guy merely takes damage. haha, sorry Settembrini.) Instead if you lose all your hit points you are "knocked out", and lose a percentage of your gold on hand. This to me, is totally fair in a D&D sense, because we play with the 'raise dead' options on. So it's just like an automatic reset, and instead of raise dead costing 6500 gp, it costs 50% of what you have on hand.

This also encourages a "bank" metagame, which was kinda cool. As soon as he had enough cash he would get out to bank it.  

We also improved this when we did our 'Futuristic D&D game': This was basicaly a solo game where he was a "star elf wizard" who worked on an exploration starship.

In the space game, when you go below 0 hit points, your character was teleported away from danger (back to the ship) by the "Ship's computer". You still lose a percentage of gold.  

The game format was, the ship would go to a new planet, beam down his character, and he would have a mission to do. Usually map out an area, rescue a missing explorer, or find something (an alien beacon, or an alien wildlife or plant sample).

Since this was a solo game, we changed summoning rules to be "1 hour per level". This was because he wanted an interchangeable pet, like a pokemon type deal. In this case he had a squawky fiendish raven that would get summoned to help him out.

I may have to run this again soon. My life is on hold until after DDXP.

So starting things off, my son and I rolled up a couple of characters with the assistance of this Javascript D&D 3.5 Character Generator.  It's a pretty nifty program that really helped us keep track of what was what and to calculate the fiddly stuff that we were likely to overlook as newbies.  At first, he rolled up an Elf Fighter, wanting to become a supreme archer someday (and little did he know about the Arcane Archer prestige class).  However, this character got lost somewhere over the course of a couple of days, so we sat down and actually rolled the dice in accordance with the suggestion in the PHB.  His rolls, in order, were as follows:
   17, 14, 7, 16, 10, 12
He then declared that he wanted to be a Gnome.  I guess gnomes have developed a certain geek caché among his mates on the bus.  He also liked the looks of the Ranger in the PHB, so that's the class he chose.  Together we figured out which rolls would match which characteristics best, which would maximise his character with racial modifiers, and assigned them accordingly.  The program essentially did the rest for us, and here is the character he created:

QuoteMendor
Male Gnome Ranger, 1st Level
Neutral Good

STR 12   (+1)
DEX 16   (+3)
CON 19   (+4)
INT 12   (+1)
WIS 10   (+0)
CHA 7   (-2)

Size:   Small
Height:   3' 8"
Weight:   47 lb
Skin:   Tan
Eyes:   Blue
Hair:   Gray; Straight; Beardless

Total Hit Points: 12
Armor Class: 17 = 10 +3 [studded] +3 [dexterity] +1 [small]

He carries a pair of scimitars (scaled-down scimitars, of course -- I figure the map effectively to the kukri stats) and a composite short bow.  We didn't realise at the time that the low Wisdom was going to have an effect upon his ability to cast Ranger spells, but my son very philosophically stated, "I can always figure out a way to raise his Wisdom and Charisma later."  Good for you, son.  He seems genuinely happy with the character, particularly since he discovered the picture of the gnome warrior in the Monster Manual.

Next up, beginning play.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaHe carries a pair of scimitars (scaled-down scimitars, of course -- I figure the map effectively to the kukri stats)

The 3.5 SRD weapon description table has the numbers for that. But your instinct was dead correct. Crit range and multipliers stay the same, damage is lowered one step for Small, two steps for Tiny, on the scale of: 2d8->d12(or 2d6)->d10->d8(or 2d4)->d6->d4->d3->d2->1. Going up to Large size is a bit wierder.

QuoteWe didn't realise at the time that the low Wisdom was going to have an effect upon his ability to cast Ranger spells, but my son very philosophically stated, "I can always figure out a way to raise his Wisdom and Charisma later."  Good for you, son.

He's got several thousand XP to do so. Wise beyond his years! His mother is clever I take it?

EDIT:  Besides with 3e da power move is to immediately multiclass out of Ranger into Fighter or Rogue now that he's got the sweet frontloaded Feats and the ability to use any divine spellcaster created wand on the Ranger spell list. Wisdom is irrelavent to that.....what? Hey, if he's gonna learn to play D&D he'll eventually learn to powergame. Might as well learn to powergame where you can keep an eye on him and he isn't going to get into Monty Haul trouble with his friends.

EDIT2: Oops. As a gnome he'll eventuall suffer that multiclassing XP penalty if he goes with one of those two and doesn't split near even with his Ranger levels. Tough call there if it'd be worth it. Bard is the race favoured class in 3.5, I think it was Illusionist specialization of Wizard in 3.0. Both very dubious multiclasses given his stats.

P.S. Diceless D&D? LOL, but makes sense since Dice+Bus Seats+Potholes=Da Suck.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaThey apparently play a very loose, wild, freeform version of the game that might appall some of you here. (My son was baffled by the dice I produced and told me point-blank, "Dad, what are these dice for?  You don't play Dungeons & Dragons with dice." :haw: )  

!i!

I am curious if your son still plays the free form bus 'campaign' with his friends now that he has been introduced to a more formal version of the game.

Do you know if it has had any impact on that?

I for one think that the way he and his friends play the game on the bus is excellent and inspiring. Kids know how to have fun.

I hope you and he have a great time with 3rd Edition. I think they did a great job with that as well.

Quote from: blakkieWise beyond his years! His mother is clever I take it?

You're a clever monkey, you know that?

As far as powergaming goes, don't worry -- he already has that on the brain, though he hasn't worked it out mechanically yet.  I've been reading up on multi-classing (man, it's a lot more sensible and easier to implement than the old AD&D rules) and have just brought it to his attention that he can do so practically whenever he wishes.  Of course, I'm directing him more toward the appropriately-themed prestige classes.  If he gives up on the notion of becoming a world-class archer, his gnome ranger could become a kick-ass Shadow Dancer.

Quote from: Michael MI am curious if your son still plays the free form bus 'campaign' with his friends now that he has been introduced to a more formal version of the game.

Do you know if it has had any impact on that?

Not that I know of.  It's a bit like they're different games entirely.  On the bus, he's buying white dragon eggs, semi-automatic crossbows, laser swords, what-have-you.  In our campaign, the adventure is brought much more down to earth, but (I hope!) is more satisfying by being more of a challenge.

You know, it's occurred to me that a side benefit of this thread will be for me to pose questions that arise in play as I begin to navigate my way through the new mechanics.  I'll be eager for more experienced input.

!i!

So, with a character all rolled up from the previous evening, it was time to get down to adventuring.  I had a general idea for an adventure based loosely on a one-shot a friend had run for our gang years back, and also inspired by the opening situation for the old AD&D tournament module, "The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan".  The general situation was that my son's character, Mendor the gnome ranger, had been taken by slavers along with a number of other demi-humans (do they still call them that, or are they all "humanoids" now?).  Geographically, I decided to use a map very loosely based on the real world's.  The pirates set out from the geographical analog of roughly Portugal, down toward the geographical analog of the Barbary coast, when a terrible storm struck for days, driving them far, far off course and against the prevailing currents, eventually sinking the ship and most of the crew and captives with it.

Mendor found himself waking one morning, washed up on the shore of the rough analog of Venezuela, debris from the pirate/slaver ship strewn all up and down the beach.  His first task was to clothe himself with whatever he could find and assemble whatever supplies he could manage from the wreck.  I made it clear that what he could see on the shore was far from all of the ship itself, so it was reasonable to assume that either everything else had sunk to the bottom of the ocean, or that currents may have carried flotsam and survivors farther up or down the coastline.  Mendor found a couple of dead pirate's bodies and looted them for basic clothes, a small boot knife to serve as a dagger, and a couple of cruelly-curved longknives that would serve him admirably as scimitars.  He also located a sack, water-logged rations for a day or so, some lengths of rope, some sturdy canvas, and a bolt of slik cloth.

Now, there are some very good reasons I set this up the way I did.  First, landing my son's character in a strange land easily hand-waives the need for any familiarity with the setting or history.  It's all strange and the player is at no more of a disadvantage than his character.  Second, there's an immediate need for adventuring and exploring.  Third, it provides an opportunity for future conflict -- he has no idea whether or not any of the pirate crew survived, nor what they might do to him if any survivors ever encounter him.  Also, if any of his friends ever want to join the game, there's a built-in opportunity for any other character of virtually any other race to have been washed up on shore farther on.  Lastly, though it's going to be heavily fictionalised and anachronistic, I intend to mix in lots of real world geography, geology, and anthropology to the campaign.  As I told my wife, "If he's going to play D&D, he's going to learn something from it."

So, as Mendor wandered down the beach looking for more supplies, he rounded a rocky promonitory and encountered a small gang of six goblins about 60 yards off doing exactly the same thing.  I had both my son and the goblins make an Initiative roll to see who noticed who first, and Mendor won.  I made it clear that he didn't recognise these as any sort of creature he had seen on the slave ship, and that they appeared to be carrying odd, ball-peened clubs and slender javelins.  Being a little headstrong, my son thought the best course of action was to take them on, and Mendor began to walk toward them.  Taking this as a surrender of Initiative, I had the goblins look up and notice Mendor, look puzzled for a moment, then rush him, screaming and flinging javelins with their atl-atls.  It took my son a moment or two -- and a particularly vivid description of the blood lust in the goblins' eyes -- to really get the picture and decide to high-tail it for the cover of the jungle that lay at the head of the beach.

I was a little uncertain how to conduct a chase through the jungle at this point.  I figured that a small, professionally trained woodland ranger was probably about on equal footing with a small band of indiginous tribes-goblins, so I had them make a series of contested DEX rolls.  Mendor managed to put a little distance between himself and the gobbos, but made the mistake of trying to lay in ambush for them.  His Hide roll went poorly and this allowed the goblins to catch up with him, and the chase was on again.

This is where I intended to bring my geology background into the picture.  I had my son make a Reflex saving roll.  I forget who (was it jrients?), but someone here on theRPGsite recently said something to the effect of, "What you have to bear in mind about Saving Rolls is that the GM is telling you that you're already fucked -- the roll is simply to determine how badly you're fucked."  And that was the situation for Mendor.  The jungle undergrowth had obscured the opening of a small cenote, and Mendor was gunning straight for it.  He missed his Reflex save and crashed right down into it, taking 1d6 HP from a 20-foot fall into a shallow pool of water.  I totally made this last bit up off the top of my head, mostly because, while I wanted him a little hurt, I didn't want him dead just yet.  As Mendor began to pick himself up and assess his situation, one of the goblins made the same mistake and came crashing down nearby.

As the other five goblins pulled up short and peered down into the depths, Mendor unshreathed one of his scimitars and my son rolled for Initiative.  Mendor won and went splashing through the shallow water to take a swing at the downed goblin.  I forgot that rangers get a +1 to hit gobbos, but I don't think it would have helped much -- he swung and he missed, giving the goblin a chance to get himself up and ready his weapon.  The next round of Initiative went went for the goblin, and he returned Mendor's favor, whiffing really poorly at Mendor with his club. My son then rolled a solid hit, opening up the goblin's belly (hey, he only had 2 HP), and the scene grew momentarily quiet as thick, red blood spread cloudlike through the milky green limewater of the cenote.  Of course, there wasn't much time for reflection as the outraged goblins at the top of the hole began to scream and find better vantage from which to hurl javelins down at Mendor.  The gnome sought the safety of the overhanging cave wall and found a tunnel that led away into the murky darkness...

And that's where we had to wrap it up for the evening.  I've since fallen ill with the flu, so we haven't been able to follow it up, but we're both itching to get back into it.  Here's a super-cool map that I'm using for inspiration.  Let's hope Mendor makes his Swim rolls.  Eventually, if he stays down in the caverns, he's going to find his way into an old temple complex, then have to work his way out of there.

!i!

It looks like he has a great character rolled up. I myself find it more heart-warming that he actually rolled the dice as opposed to having them generated by software. I just like the hands-on approach. =)

I think it is a good sign that he has a vision of what he wants his character to become. A big difference between his previous free form experience and formal DnD is the structured progression of the characters. If he has such clear objectives I think he will find the whole levelling up process very satisfying. And like you said, 3rd edition did some good cleaning up on that score. Multi-classing is so simple and effective you wonder how they missed it for so long.

Will this be a solo campaign or will he have other players to group with?

Quote from: Michael MA big difference between his previous free form experience and formal DnD is the structured progression of the characters. If he has such clear objectives I think he will find the whole levelling up process very satisfying.

I think this is a big appeal for me.  Don't anyone take this the wrong way, but XPs and levelling up are great incentives for "object oriented" players.  Developing a rich personal history over the course of a campaign is great, but it's also nice to set your own reward schedule and get a cookie thrown to you on a regular basis.

QuoteWill this be a solo campaign or will he have other players to group with?

I mentioned in my (very dense) post above that I've built in plenty of opportunities for other players to sit in, and I've encouraged my son to invite his friends over if they want.  As long as their parents are cool with it (and I assume they must be since the other fellas on the bus own various D&D books), I think it'd be fun.

And brain damaging.

!i!

wow!

the session sounds fantastic. you made a lot of good calls in terms of the setting: throwing the player into immediate danger with little or no supplies makes for some good conflict.

i think this example of play really demonstrates how failure in action really adds tension and interest to a game. it would be easy to think that giving a player lots of power and stuff would get their interest, but it is usually the opposite. players are captivated by the troubles that are stacked against them as they wonder how they might get out of it.

can't wait to see how things turn out. =)

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaOn the bus, he's buying white dragon eggs, semi-automatic crossbows, laser swords, what-have-you.

...

...

...I wanna play that game.