Golly that sounds fun! I used to GM kids of that age whenever the extended family got together for Christmas. One trick I used to really rope em in, was to let them fall through a floor, and then let the impact break the next floor down etc.... It gives the impression of depth much better than a single long fall with water at the bottom. And if you give em vines to grab at, they can swing away into different sections so they have to work to stay together. (It makes it easier to keep the kids in a group if they have to work for it.)

After an unintentionally long hiatus following the New Year (during which we'd played Heroscape, if anything), we got back to the adventure Saturday night.  Things did not proceed well.  The problem?  Preparation, or lack thereof.

The situation was pretty simple.  Having offed a mess of kobolds, Mendor the gnome ranger and Hazel the halfling sorceress, still stuck in the cenotes, headed up-stream until they found a dry tunnel instead of the stream of milky green water.  I made a point of describing just how utterly caked the two were with greenish-white mud and feeling on the edge of exhaustion in the near-darkness of the caverns.  They emerged in a larger, mostly dry cavern, filled with stalactites and stalagmites that seemed to have formed over the penetrating roots of trees overhead, and...light!  Just a little, but pallid beams of light filtering in through the back of the cave.

Unfortunately, there were spiders, too.

Here is where my problems began to mount.  I hadn't reviewed the rules before play, and I couldn't figure out off the cuff how to resolve a surprise check.  Dad goes rifling through the books while son and daughter twiddle their thumbs a little.  I came up with a quick houserule based on a Reflex Save just to keep things moving, but then I got wrapped around the axle on what number to save against.  More tedium, though only briefly.

Okay, so the action got going, but the spiders (just small ones, 1d8 HP) got the drop on Mendor and Hazel and started taking them apart.  Rolls to hit the spiders were whiffed, rolls for the spiders to hit the adventurers went too well, rolls to save vs. Poison went poorly...ugh.

Oh, yes, poison.  I had to flip back and forth between three fucking books to cobble together a simple ruling on how to resolve a Fortitude Save versus poison.  More tedium for the players.  My daughter began to complain that she didn't want to deal with the terror of poison, and my son began to rest his forehead on the table and pretend to snore.  I started losing my top a little, and my wife chose that moment to make an inopportune critique of my parenting style.  The game ground to a halt for the evening.  As a result of not having prepared ahead of time for the special attacks available to a certain type of monster, the game went poorly and everyone had a rotten time.

Tears were shed.

Okay, so on Sunday, I had a frank talk with my kids, apologised for losing my cool, and confessing that I went into the session with insufficient preparation.  I had since figured out how to resolve surprise and poison, and I was eager to finish up the encounter.

We got back into it, Mendor and Hazel managed to squick five small monstrous spiders, and proceed toward the possible exit.  That's when I dropped the medium monstrous spider on them.  Hazel's Magic Missiles were all depleted by then, but that's when she figured out just how absolutely handy she was with a light crossbow.  Mendor didn't fare so well, got bitten up and poisoned pretty badly, half-wrapped in spider silk, and dropped to 0 HP.  Still, Hazel finished off the spider herself and saved her companion.  They were intensely relieved, but desperate to get out of the caverns.  As Hazel used an Animate Rope spell to get herself and Mendor's semi-conscious body out of the hole, they noticed a skeleton hanging in the spiderwebs -- a large crocodilian humanoid with what appeared to be glittering jewelry showing among the webs.  They were simply too desperate to get free, though.

Hobbling through the jungle, sick with spider venom, and the gnome half-draped over the halfling's shoulder, they were eventually discovered by a hunting party of lizardfolk.  Mendor, who happens to know Draconic, was barely able to mutter a polite surrender, and the two were tied up and brought back to the lizardfolk village as the evening fell.  The village was a series of platform huts built on stilts amid the mire of a swamp, with causeways connecting one platform to another in a veritable maze.

They were thrown down before the wizened village elder, resplendent in bright feathers, jaguar skins, and gold jewelry, who demanded to know how they came to the forest of the Day-Lizard tribe.  The tale of the pirate slavers didn't carry much weight, nor did the encounter with the goblins, though the story of killing off kobolds -- the Night-Lizard tribe, it seemed -- was received somewhat better.  Still, the village elder declared that they would be either sacrificed or eaten, or both, come morning's light.  My son was rather clever to point out that both Mendor and Hazel were sick with spider venom and wouldn't taste very good, but my daughter made the connection between the elder lizard's jewelry and the lizard-like skeleton in the cavern.  Mendor quickly explained that they saw what was probably the remains of one of the Day -Lizard tribe stuck in the spider webs, and they could show them where it was if they could be nursed to health.  The old lizard grunted at this suggestion, but agreed to the wisdom of it, and decreed that Hazel and Mendor be cleaned and cared for.

Everyone was satisfied with the resolution I came up with at this point, and we called it an evening.  One thing that is becoming plain is that Mendor and Hazel need someone with some healing ability, even just a little.  Mendor won't get a Cure Light Wounds spell until at least 8th Level, and sorcerers can't build a work-around until much higher levels.  On the bright side of things, after the spiders, which was a totally overwhelming encounter in retrospect, Mendor is 50 XP away from leveling up, and Hazel only about 225 XP.  I think they're very much looking forward to this.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaAfter an unintentionally long hiatus following the New Year (during which we'd played Heroscape, if anything), we got back to the adventure Saturday night.  Things did not proceed well.  The problem?  Preparation, or lack thereof.
!i!

You know I thoroughly am glad you've persevered with this for your kids. I occasionally run my nephew and niece on T&T because of its simplicity for the very reason that I don't often know when they'll visit much in advance. (Or I run H&S but that goes without saying.) I tend to stick with simpler games because frankly I like to be able to run smoothly without book flipping even if I've not run them in a while. Yet there is something interesting that "D&D" brings to the table in terms of resources allotment, and the like.


As for healing you might slip in a small magical item for their use--perhaps the the Lizard men offer them something in the next adventure? (I'm not sure what, Rings of Regeneration, or perhaps just a Rod of Healing--lets you cast Cure Light Wounds 3x a day or something)

I have to admit, I've been tempted to switch the game to something simple like Tunnels & Trolls, or even RuneQuest (which I could GM in a coma, I'm so familiar with it), but my son prefers the idea of playing real D&D.  And, I also have to admit, that part of the appeal is the reward system -- he's totally jazzed about leveling up.

Also, yes, I was skimming through the magic item choices in the back of the DMG last night.  A Wand of CLW might do the trick nicely.  There'll be plenty of opportunities to find such a thing if they go back into the spider cavern with the help of some of the lizardfolk warriors -- the skeleton is that of the village elder's lost son, for which rewards may be in order.  Also, that big spider was just the tip of the iceberg in that cavern.  Other victims with other treasures may be found among the webs and the muck...as well as the real menace behind the spiderwebs.  Any accompanying lizardfolk warriors are going to be totally red-shirted. :hehe:

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI have to admit, I've been tempted to switch the game to something simple like Tunnels & Trolls, or even RuneQuest (which I could GM in a coma, I'm so familiar with it), but my son prefers the idea of playing real D&D.  And, I also have to admit, that part of the appeal is the reward system -- he's totally jazzed about leveling up.

Also, yes, I was skimming through the magic item choices in the back of the DMG last night.  A Wand of CLW might do the trick nicely.  There'll be plenty of opportunities to find such a thing if they go back into the spider cavern with the help of some of the lizardfolk warriors -- the skeleton is that of the village elder's lost son, for which rewards may be in order.  Also, that big spider was just the tip of the iceberg in that cavern.  Other victims with other treasures may be found among the webs and the muck...as well as the real menace behind the spiderwebs.  Any accompanying lizardfolk warriors are going to be totally red-shirted. :hehe:

!i!

A couple of things...

First, as usual...awesome.  My son just turned 7 last month and one of these days I'll be starting up.  Mind if I use your scenario?

Second - Wand of CLW is a really good solution to the party without healer problem.  As long as one of them can use it, which is the case, it's a nice little source for when the going gets tough. maybe give them with only a few charges left instead of the full compliment.

Third - I'm curious is the last encounter, regardless of your horrible parenting skills will make them more cautious/willing to run away in the future.  It seems they had limited choices in this case, but damn GFS are good for reminding people how bad things can turn out...

Fourth - don't let the flipping get you.

Quote from: James J SkachMy son just turned 7 last month and one of these days I'll be starting up.  Mind if I use your scenario?

Not at all!  I like it for a number of reasons.  One, it starts the action right off with a bang.  Second, the situation allows for other characters to show up with no torturous explanation if more players want to join (more escaped slaves from the wrecked pirate ship).  Third, it conveniently provides replacement characters if necessary.  Fourth, with an impromptu base of operations now, they can start to explore and plunder the caverns, but still retreat to safety when they take too much of a beating.

QuoteWand of CLW is a really good solution to the party without healer problem.  As long as one of them can use it, which is the case, it's a nice little source for when the going gets tough.

[/i]It's a lot simpler than figuring out a way that a sorceress can cast a CLW, which I had begun to try to work out.  Besides, in the hands of a halfling, the wand will look like a staff.

QuoteI'm curious is the last encounter, regardless of your horrible parenting skills will make them more cautious/willing to run away in the future.

Oh, they wanted to run away this time, but they were desperate to try to get out of the caverns.  I think they sensed the death-spiral beginning and were willing to just take the most direct path to freedom.

Quotedon't let the flipping get you.

You know, my main consolation was that I remembered RPG sessions turning out like this when I was much younger, with exhaustion or anxiety or lack of preparation lighting a powder-keg underneath a bunch of teenage boys.  Not every session goes right, and sometimes it takes some serious and honest reflection to set things back on track.

!i!

Interesting. I am not sure why you got bogged down in rules its not like the 7 year old is going to question that they were suprised by the hidden giant spider...

Personally I would not use a system at all for first games just wing the whole lot. I have introduced a roleplay element into my daughters games this way already. She gets to decide what she does when the she sees the witch on the roof of the cottage. This time she chose to blow her magic whistle which she knows scares witches away but then when the witch started calling down lightning bolts she decided to challenge her to a sword fight. She didn't have a sword though so I 'reminded' her there was one in the shed where they kept all the swords. Then in the fight the witch easily bested her (she is only 3 after all) but fortunately the lightning storm had worsened and as the witch lifted her blade skyward with both hands a bolt of lighting shot down and toasted her to a crisp, leaving nothing but a pair of smoking boots.

My cunning plan is to slowly turn the storytelling game into a proper game and introduce dice and stuff (maybe when she is 5 or so) but I won't introduce a formal system at all unless she pushes for one and of course by that point her mum will already have won and she will care more about shoes and boy than dragons and witches :-(

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaWords.

Welcome to a number of D&D's problems.  I'm glad you kept at it, though.

Quote from: jibbajibbaInteresting. I am not sure why you got bogged down in rules its not like the 7 year old is going to question that they were suprised by the hidden giant spider...

Well, first, he's 8 now, going on 9, and he's pretty interested in equity and his personal welfare and any number of things like that.  Second, I'm very interested in teaching them the actual game.  We've done much more free-form roleplaying before (as do he and his mates on the school bus), but this is our first attempt to really learn a specific system.  Third, sometimes, in spite of better judgement, you just get wrapped around the axle on needless details.

You're probably right with regard to the surprise roll -- I should have just hand-waved a surprise on them.  But the matter of the poisoned spider bites was a much more integral bookkeeping issue of D&D, like hit points.  And another matter regarding hand-waving rules -- one that comes up on this site fairly often -- is that players may not mind a GM fudging or hand-waving this or that, as long as it's consistent.  The best way to be consistent with your players is to know the rules well enough to approximate them as closely as possible when in a pinch.

All that said, it still really boils down to preparation.  I let myself feel on the spot and uncertain, and the mood of the game was swayed heavily by that.  The follow-up session went much more smoothly and positively with only a little prep work.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaAll that said, it still really boils down to preparation.  I let myself feel on the spot and uncertain, and the mood of the game was swayed heavily by that.  The follow-up session went much more smoothly and positively with only a little prep work.

!i!

Yeah, hand waving is easy but it is better to do so from a consistent point/starting off place. I try and run my nephew and niece "strictly" by the rules because they learn the rules better that way, and may want to run their own games someday--it is better to start off with a solid core for them to utilize because they don't yet  have the maturity to accept some things without good cause and move on--that's because they're kids