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Author Topic: My 4e homebrew setting: The Plains of Kadiz  (Read 23444 times)

Pseudoephedrine
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My 4e homebrew setting: The Plains of Kadiz
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2008, 11:54:01 AM »
I decided against having a common coinage in the game to move the emphasis away from money. The more complicated it is to keep track of something, the less likely PCs are to bother with it. I think two currencies is just complex enough that if someone wants to play a greedy character or a rich character that they can do so, but the PCs aren't going to bother chasing down money unless they really need it.

As well, it also allows me to send them up against hordes of mooks without keeping track of their pocket change. The copper coins and paper scrip most guardsmen would carry will be of little interest to the PCs, and so, not worth looting them for.
Running
The Pernicious Light, or The Wreckers of Sword Island;
A Goblin's Progress, or Of Cannons and Canons;
An Oration on the Dignity of Tash, or On the Elves and Their Lies
All for S&W Complete
Playing: Dark Heresy, WFRP 2e

"Elves don't want you cutting down trees but they sell wood items, they don't care about the forests, they''re the fuckin' wood mafia." -Anonymous

Balbinus

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My 4e homebrew setting: The Plains of Kadiz
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2008, 08:43:29 PM »
Pseudo, really great stuff, not much more to say than that but I thought that still merited saying.

Spike

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« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2008, 11:27:22 PM »
I do find common coinage to be more of a meta-game consideration than not. Getting your players onto a barter/exchange economy may or may not be more effort than it's worth.

That said: Even without a common currency a standard of exchange would exist anyway presumtively around weights of precious metals... unless for some reason gold and silver (or copper or what have you..) are not, in fact, valuable to people inherently, as they are in our world.

Which is why it is often so hard to find ancient artifacts of those metals, as they were often destroyed for the 'inherent' value of their metal. Melted, recast, sometimes in new currencies...

And of course we have the example of nomads, without the infrastructure to mint coinage, using simple coils of soft metal and breaking off roughly equivilent sized peices as a means of purchase.

The existance of paper money seems to be a significant anachronisim, though I might be in error here. Paper lacks inherent value and is easily destructable. In our world/time it was a fairly significant, and lengthy process to push people to accept as 'money' things that lacked value in and of themselves... E.G. paper.

Which is one reason that, up until post WWII, it was the standard to back paper with gold, the 'Fort Knox' situation.  In other words, your paper money suggests that somewhere is a vault full of gold (or pressed latinum, whatever...) just sitting there, waiting to get robbed.  Not that that is a bad thing...
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Pseudoephedrine
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« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2008, 04:02:10 AM »
The thing to remember with gold on the plains is that there is only one known gold mine, and its entire output is taken by the government of Dwer Tor and used for whatever purposes it wants. While there is theoretically a "gold piece" that Dwer Tor mints and is in circulation, it's really more of an accounting measure than a true coin. The Orthocracy doesn't have a mint simply because it doesn't have precious metals to mint into coins. Gold exists, and is very valuable, but is also scarce and hard to get outside of Dwer Tor.

As for paper money, don't forget that the Chinese had been using it for centuries before it became common in the west. I suspect that I'll make the paper money of Kaddish backed by raw goods - X amount of scrip is theoretically worth Y amount of grain from the city granary, with X and Y determined by an arcane method of deliberation that combines the maximum amounts of opacity and unfairness possible. Once again, it would be an unstable system ripe with adventure potential - the currency could crash, leading to riots, or a bad harvest might make Kaddish scrip incredibly valuable.

Balb> Thanks. :)
Running
The Pernicious Light, or The Wreckers of Sword Island;
A Goblin's Progress, or Of Cannons and Canons;
An Oration on the Dignity of Tash, or On the Elves and Their Lies
All for S&W Complete
Playing: Dark Heresy, WFRP 2e

"Elves don't want you cutting down trees but they sell wood items, they don't care about the forests, they''re the fuckin' wood mafia." -Anonymous

Spike

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« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2008, 04:15:16 PM »
That's fine for Gold, but what about silver and other precious 'goods'?

Need I remind you of seashells?


Also: I like the grainery backing, which was something I was sort of thinking of.  Of course, on trouble with developing ideas is that I have no real idea what your players like to do and how they'd interact with all this. My players sort of did the 'tourist trip' style through my last game world...:rolleyes:
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Pseudoephedrine
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« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2008, 10:08:50 PM »
Quote from: Spike
That's fine for Gold, but what about silver and other precious 'goods'?

Need I remind you of seashells?


Also: I like the grainery backing, which was something I was sort of thinking of.  Of course, on trouble with developing ideas is that I have no real idea what your players like to do and how they'd interact with all this. My players sort of did the 'tourist trip' style through my last game world...:rolleyes:


My players tend to play characters with very strong personalities that grow to dominate the plot of the game. Chances are they won't be "adventurers" in the conventional sense. I'm more worried about giving them enough information to be able to come up with good character ideas, rather than stuff for them to do.

As for silver, I'll probably use it as the most common monetary measure of exchange, but still uncommon. Most silver isn't leaving the city it's in, and there isn't enough of it to dominate over the scrip in Kaddish. In Dwer Tor, the main coins in actual circulation are silver pieces (smaller ones than "typical" for D&D though - 1/2 oz. rather than 1 oz.).
Running
The Pernicious Light, or The Wreckers of Sword Island;
A Goblin's Progress, or Of Cannons and Canons;
An Oration on the Dignity of Tash, or On the Elves and Their Lies
All for S&W Complete
Playing: Dark Heresy, WFRP 2e

"Elves don't want you cutting down trees but they sell wood items, they don't care about the forests, they''re the fuckin' wood mafia." -Anonymous

Spike

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« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2008, 06:35:15 PM »
I've never paid attention to money weights in D&D...

However, I'm baffled a bit by the whole 'silver wouldn't leave the city its issued in' comment. The advantage of a 'precious metal' commodity as a means of exchange is that it can be more or less universally accepted for its inherent value.

Gold is off the table, not because its not valuable, but because its controlled (much like the diamonds of today... since they are only common in one area, their value is inflated due to the monopoly on the gems, which is why equally attractive, but much easier to 'create' synthetics (diamond, moisenitte, Cubic Zirconium, what have you) are not only stupidly cheap in comparison, but are viewed even by 'poor people' as cheap immitations.

In other words, gold will have potentially crazy value in the area (I assume that Dwer Tor controls the only 'local' gold mine, not 'the only gold mine'....), but lesser metals (silver, obviously, but copper or platinum or even bronze alloys) would be useful mediums of exchange.  I'm assuming some level of trade still occurs, large urban civilizations practically demand a trade infrastructure supporting them and pure barter is always awkward over long terms...
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Pseudoephedrine
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« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2008, 12:27:59 AM »
Yeah, Dwer Tor controls the only gold mine anyone in the area knows about - there are presumably other gold mines elsewhere, but .

As for the rarity of silver coinage, I don't picture it as extremely uncommon. But the hinterlands have little besides food and other raw goods to trade with the cities, while the cities produce finished goods that they want. I'm using trade during the colonial period in North America as my model here. Especially up here in Canada, there was a surprisingly sophisticated network of barter based on the relative values of finished and raw goods (partially) due to the scarcity of specie and the indigenous disregard for coinage.

In general, the way I see it is that people in the cities use the appropriate sort of money because of the diversity of goods and vendors available. As one moves away from the cities into the hinterlands, people become more self-sufficient, partially because they may not have a blacksmith or other specialist artisan at hand. It's a fair question on your part though.
Running
The Pernicious Light, or The Wreckers of Sword Island;
A Goblin's Progress, or Of Cannons and Canons;
An Oration on the Dignity of Tash, or On the Elves and Their Lies
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Playing: Dark Heresy, WFRP 2e

"Elves don't want you cutting down trees but they sell wood items, they don't care about the forests, they''re the fuckin' wood mafia." -Anonymous

Pseudoephedrine
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« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2008, 01:47:20 AM »
I'm going to go more micro now, and focus in on the setting that the PCs will come from - the nomads.

Names:

The nomads are split into clans. Each clan name has two parts - the role or function of its original founder, plus his name. Both are mutated and abbreviated in modern clan names. "Barreeve" or "Valterk" are examples. A nomad is formally identified by his given name, his sept name (a patronymic) and his clan. "Rufus Kern Barreeve" is an example. Outside of formal contexts, nomads are known by their given name and an epithet, usually one that describes a physical feature or a personality characteristic. "Rufus the Black" or "Glib Kern" are examples. Women are part of their husband's sept and have their names changed to match this.

Dress:

The nomads wear layers of heavy clothing, usually a combination of wool, leather and some furs. Men wear tunics and kilts in warm weather, and heavy robes, like a monk's habit but slit for riding, in colder weather. Sheepskin wraps around the arms and legs are also common, and form the underpadding of most armour. Hats are uncommon except for helmets, but bandannas and scarves are used to keep the dust off. The nomads typically cut or shave their beards and hair at the same time, usually waiting until later in life to grow them out long.

Women wear dresses, usually made of wool. In colder weather, they may wear ponchos of sheepskin. It's common to braid their hair. The nomads do not have cosmetics, and normally wear heavy, unrevealing clothing, so a woman's hair is considered one of her most attractive features.
Running
The Pernicious Light, or The Wreckers of Sword Island;
A Goblin's Progress, or Of Cannons and Canons;
An Oration on the Dignity of Tash, or On the Elves and Their Lies
All for S&W Complete
Playing: Dark Heresy, WFRP 2e

"Elves don't want you cutting down trees but they sell wood items, they don't care about the forests, they''re the fuckin' wood mafia." -Anonymous

Drew

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My 4e homebrew setting: The Plains of Kadiz
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2008, 02:56:59 AM »
Excellent work.

I'll be interested in seeing how you tie the new cosmology to the setting -- the shadowfell, the feywild, elemental demons and the like.
 

Pseudoephedrine
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« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2008, 03:18:29 AM »
Thanks. :)

I don't actually know how I'm going to tie the cosmology in totally yet, mostly because I'm not 100% on all the details of it, but also because our games tend not to focus too much on extraplanar stuff. Though I'll probably have daimons be astral entities of some sort. I'm given to understand the astral plane is now a sort of nooscape?
Running
The Pernicious Light, or The Wreckers of Sword Island;
A Goblin's Progress, or Of Cannons and Canons;
An Oration on the Dignity of Tash, or On the Elves and Their Lies
All for S&W Complete
Playing: Dark Heresy, WFRP 2e

"Elves don't want you cutting down trees but they sell wood items, they don't care about the forests, they''re the fuckin' wood mafia." -Anonymous

Pseudoephedrine
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« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2008, 08:59:40 PM »
X
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The Pernicious Light, or The Wreckers of Sword Island;
A Goblin's Progress, or Of Cannons and Canons;
An Oration on the Dignity of Tash, or On the Elves and Their Lies
All for S&W Complete
Playing: Dark Heresy, WFRP 2e

"Elves don't want you cutting down trees but they sell wood items, they don't care about the forests, they''re the fuckin' wood mafia." -Anonymous

Spike

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My 4e homebrew setting: The Plains of Kadiz
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2008, 07:44:40 PM »
Given that the nomads are only a couple of generations removed from the city folk, I'd expect to see similar, if not identical, names and naming conventions between the two groups.

With Nomads you'll see a lot of conservation of resources, something that might be stressed.  Mongols, for example, eat horsemeat and drink mare's milk, because they have few other resources available. Every animal they keep is a potential source of food, clothing, and more.  Nomads are also the biggest users of felt, though honestly I can't say why felt is more popular overall than traditional wool clothes (maybe the process is faster/less labor intensive than traditional weaving? I suspect so, but couldn't say with authority).

Another thing you'll see is there isn't a differnce between winter clothes/tents and summer clothes/tents. Same garments/tent... they just wear more or less layers and ventilate more or less depending on conditions.


I've also mentioned, I think, the probability that the land they occupy is most likely unsuited to agriculture.  Given that they would not be unfamiliar with the concept, it is the only explanation for adopting entirely a nomadic existance.  Further: with the prevelance of nearby 'urbanized' cultures, even excluding their original homeland, a more likely choice would have been to settle, possibly semi-nomadic on the fringes of someplace where they could trade livestock for things they can't grow... A reversion to full on nomadicism is unusual, its a hard hard life (though, of course, having wild elves teach you the basics...:p )
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Pseudoephedrine
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« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2008, 08:43:40 PM »
Quote from: Spike
Given that the nomads are only a couple of generations removed from the city folk, I'd expect to see similar, if not identical, names and naming conventions between the two groups.


You will. Kaddish names will be [Given Name] [Matronym] [Founder + Association]. Instead of clans, the Kaddish belong to various associations, like unions, gangs, temples, schools, etc.

Quote
With Nomads you'll see a lot of conservation of resources, something that might be stressed.  Mongols, for example, eat horsemeat and drink mare's milk, because they have few other resources available. Every animal they keep is a potential source of food, clothing, and more.  Nomads are also the biggest users of felt, though honestly I can't say why felt is more popular overall than traditional wool clothes (maybe the process is faster/less labor intensive than traditional weaving? I suspect so, but couldn't say with authority).

Another thing you'll see is there isn't a differnce between winter clothes/tents and summer clothes/tents. Same garments/tent... they just wear more or less layers and ventilate more or less depending on conditions.


I didn't know about the felt, but it's a good thing to know. The winter clothes are intended to be worn over their summer clothes, which is why they're robes and ponchos.

Quote
I've also mentioned, I think, the probability that the land they occupy is most likely unsuited to agriculture.  Given that they would not be unfamiliar with the concept, it is the only explanation for adopting entirely a nomadic existance.  Further: with the prevelance of nearby 'urbanized' cultures, even excluding their original homeland, a more likely choice would have been to settle, possibly semi-nomadic on the fringes of someplace where they could trade livestock for things they can't grow... A reversion to full on nomadicism is unusual, its a hard hard life (though, of course, having wild elves teach you the basics...:p )


The terrain they inhabit is windswept plains that shades into desert the further east one goes. Without irrigation and scientific farming, it's very marginal land. I'm thinking of something like the desert of British Columbia on the eastern side of the Rockies that becomes the badlands of Alberta, then the Great Plains, except with the weather reversed (It's wetter to the east rather than to the west). That would be one reason not to settle. The other, of course, is that they were being chased by the Kaddish for a couple decades.

I am thinking of making them only semi-nomadic. They move between pasturages depending on season and following a semi-regular route rather than just roaming around. They're not hunters, they're ranchers after all.
Running
The Pernicious Light, or The Wreckers of Sword Island;
A Goblin's Progress, or Of Cannons and Canons;
An Oration on the Dignity of Tash, or On the Elves and Their Lies
All for S&W Complete
Playing: Dark Heresy, WFRP 2e

"Elves don't want you cutting down trees but they sell wood items, they don't care about the forests, they''re the fuckin' wood mafia." -Anonymous

Pseudoephedrine
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« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2008, 03:14:58 AM »
Now to go micro, and focus on the setting the PCs will be in:

The PCs are members of the Barreeve clan, a small clan that roams the northern plains. It is composed of around 10 sects, each with about 40 members, with about 5% elves (mostly women), 20% half-elves, and the rest humans. It mainly raises cattle and trades with its neighbours for sheep, goats and horses. Its banner is a black herringbone pattern woven into bleached fabric. Members also tend to wear kerchiefs, scarves, or kaffiyehs with this pattern to mark them out from other clans.

The summer pasturage for the Barreeves is Starwell Lake, and the winter pasturage is Butcher Hill.

Butcher Hill:

Butcher Hill is about three days on horseback south-east of where the Birth River emerges from the mountains, the traditional southern boundary of Kaddish. It is a large hill on the northern bank of the Slaughter River near several easy fords. Long before the nomads came, someone built a small stone watchtower at the top of the hill which can be spotted miles away. This is the only permanent structure in Butcher Hill, and is used as a meeting hall between the clans and for defense against hobgoblin and hill elf raids.

Butcher Hill during the winter is very nearly a town. The Barreeves share it with the Fosgard and Valtyrs, and when all three clans are near it, it has nearly 1,500 people. Traders from Dwer Tor and the Orthocracy are uncommon, but the easy water access means that a few will brave it. The place stinks of blood and the sounds of dying animals from the winter slaughter, which is where it gets its name from. When the clans are there, it is a lawless, wild town as men drink and compete with one another in tests of skill and courage. There is an uneasy peace, but conflict rarely rises above the level of inter-sept violence.

About a day on horseback north-east of Butcher Hill are a series of gorges, ravines and wadis that run between hills covered in scrub brush. At least one tribe of hostile hill elves live there, and children are warned not to wander too far from camp lest the hill elves get them.

Two days on horseback south of Butcher Hill, there are a series of rapid cuts and ridges where the earth has shifted and exposed its underbelly. Known as the Broken Lands, it is full of wild beasts and monsters, but the soil exposed by the shifting has stayed, and it is one of the few places that trees grow plentifully. Daring bands of loggers collect wood for the clans, but they have not penetrated more than a hundred yards into it, and loggers do not always return.

From the westerly edge of the Broken Lands edging north to approximately west of Butcher Hill there are a series of hot springs and geysers. During the summer they make for excellent pasturage (used by the Fosgards), but in winter the fog becomes so intense that travelers south of the river can wander around in circles for days, even stumbling into the Broken Lands without realising it.
Running
The Pernicious Light, or The Wreckers of Sword Island;
A Goblin's Progress, or Of Cannons and Canons;
An Oration on the Dignity of Tash, or On the Elves and Their Lies
All for S&W Complete
Playing: Dark Heresy, WFRP 2e

"Elves don't want you cutting down trees but they sell wood items, they don't care about the forests, they''re the fuckin' wood mafia." -Anonymous