Have recently been messing around with a d20-roll-under-stat mechanic. I currently like this mechanic since its fast and simple - you can roll a lot of these at once quite easily, for example, without having to do addition on individual rolls.
A problem though is that I also want to use a class/level system...and unfortunately that doesn't seem to be completely compatible since if a skill is just roll-under-stat, it probably doesn't increase as level goes up.

For attack rolls, I was planning on dropping the roll-under-stat and using a derived stat instead, much like in Dragon Warriors (i.e. roll under Attack of 10 + 1/3 DEX +1/level for fighters, minus target Defense)...same for Magic...but I'd rather roll against a stat by default for most minor skills like Survival or Craft or Horsemanship.

So, has anyone seen any other systems I really should look at for R&D? Or any particularly interesting ways to combine stat checks with a level-based system? (AD&D did it, but by using completely different systems for Non Weapon Proficiencies/stat checks and level-based checks; Alternity adds lots of bonuses to the stat and then just has huge difficulty penalties e.g. -3d20).

I see two things here. You want to combine levels with an emphasis on skills. Hinterwelt's Iridium system does this, though not with roll under stat. You might want to look at that. The system is a free DL.

Depending on how high the stats are, you might go with something like a combat +1 every other level, and a skill +1 or new skill every level. Combat +1 may not be to hit - it could be defensive or something else to do with combat.

-clash

Thanks Clash!  

Interesting. It did use stat rolls of under stat on d20 and the system for rolling up on 20s in case of stats >20 was interesting, though I think its system of rolling 3d20 take highest to generate a stat in the first place is perhaps dubious in this case, since it makes a maximum 20 attribute the most common attribute value. (For my game I was going to use a stat range of 5-15, instead of the the more usual 3-18 range, to give some room for bonuses).

Interesting also since I don't recall seeing a system where skills are separately modified by number of skill levels and character level before, either - though I don't think I'll be able to use this idea directly in this case since d20 roll under is more granular than d%.
The Iridium hit location system is fairly entertaining too, where a PCs groin has twice as many HP as their head

I think your idea of splitting of bonuses so that benefits alternate is also one I can probably use in some way...

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;433221Thanks Clash!  

Interesting. It did use stat rolls of under stat on d20 and the system for rolling up on 20s in case of stats >20 was interesting, though I think its system of rolling 3d20 take highest to generate a stat in the first place is perhaps dubious in this case, since it makes a maximum 20 attribute the most common attribute value. (For my game I was going to use a stat range of 5-15, instead of the the more usual 3-18 range, to give some room for bonuses).

Much more reasonable. My StarPool games use roll d20 under stat, and I use a 15 max on stats, but they use pools, and no levels.

QuoteInteresting also since I don't recall seeing a system where skills are separately modified by number of skill levels and character level before, either - though I don't think I'll be able to use this idea directly in this case since d20 roll under is more granular than d%.
The Iridium hit location system is fairly entertaining too, where a PCs groin has twice as many HP as their head

I think your idea of splitting of bonuses so that benefits alternate is also one I can probably use in some way...

I like Iridium, and I never liked a hit location system before.

Glad to be of some help!

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;433223I like Iridium, and I never liked a hit location system before.

Glad to be of some help!

-clash

Maybe a little clunky but it has a certain charm...Targeting skill is interesting though wonder if there's some way of building this into the normal hit location roll die which often has to be rolled if the targeting roll fails anyway...and after some searching I still can't figure out how shields work, except that they cover specific areas.

As to other hit location systems...I sort of like the One Roll Engine hit location system since it looks quick and clean (as in location roll is built into the to-hit roll), though it doesn't really work with any other core mechanic, and height/width doesn't really seem worth the effort on other checks.

Usually tracking HP separately in each location is more than I can be bothered doing, I'd rather have some sort of wound threshold, with a character taking a penalty if a single blow deals damage to your arm/leg/whatever greater than that...less tracking, and in the per-location HP systems there always seems to be weird things happening when characters take damage to non-specified locations (poison, falling, blood loss).

What the hell did you do in Alternity to get a -3d20 modifier?

Um...haven't played it (sorry if I gave you that impression)...
If you have played it..so, what was it like ??

It was terrible for reasons that had nothing to do with the game itself and everything to do with the fact that I was 13 years old, had no clue how to GM, and was winging it.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;433211So, has anyone seen any other systems I really should look at for R&D?

Dungeonslayers.
The English 3rd edition is a free download.

While the name implies a tongue-in-cheek dungeon parody game, it's totally not. The 4th edition (currently only available in German, and in print) took the concept and expanded it into a medium-crunch, class-and-level based, fantasy RPG.

It's a one-book, "old school" game like MERP or WHFRP1, only smaller (168 digest-sized pages), with rules for level 1-20.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;433211Have recently been messing around with a d20-roll-under-stat mechanic. I currently like this mechanic since its fast and simple - you can roll a lot of these at once quite easily, for example, without having to do addition on individual rolls.
A problem though is that I also want to use a class/level system...and unfortunately that doesn't seem to be completely compatible since if a skill is just roll-under-stat, it probably doesn't increase as level goes up.

You could say that a PC gets to re-roll a failed test if the dice roll is equal or less then there level, counting down from 20. This is easier to explain with examples; what I mean is that a 1st level character gets to re-roll failed tests if their roll was a 20, a 2nd level character gets to re-roll failed tests on a 19 or 20, a 3rd level would re-roll failed tests on a roll of 18, 19 or 20, and so on.

Once characters get up to levels 8 or more, they are likely to always get a re-roll on a failed test, but I think that could be rather cool - after all, they are pretty high level by then, and should be pretty kick-ass. You wouldn't be allowed to re-roll a re-roll, of course.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;433211For attack rolls, I was planning on dropping the roll-under-stat and using a derived stat instead, much like in Dragon Warriors...

I think it would be more elegant and intuitive if you could stick to the roll under system for everything, but heh, this is your game not mine

In the case of 2E AD&D, changing the system from "roll over" to "roll under" for combat attacks actually makes the mechanic very simple for a fighter.  The AC system is descending with AC 10 = no armor, AC 9 = shield only, etc ...

For a 2E AD&D fighter with level_fighter, attacking a monster with AC_monster, one rolls a d20 less than or equal to:

(level_fighter + AC_monster)

for a successful hit.

Thanks guys!
Dirk: thanks very much for that, hadn't seen that one before. Had a look through it and checked out the forums as well. Interesting little system - particularly found the way they handle checks >20 (rolling twice and adding the successful numbers). The success based on rolling high I'd seen before (Pendragon, QAGS) but they seem to be getting some good mileage out of it - haven't seen many games with what's basically a 'soak' roll that aren't dice-pool based.
Found a thread on doing extended rolls (giving tasks 'HP' that you wear down from lots of rolls) that was interesting as well.


Glazer: thanks will file that one away too.  Could work, at least until characters get to higher levels.

Also: for Attack/defense rolls I should explain...I was thinking of using roll-under for attack rolls as well as other checks (both on d20), but while for most skills I was happy to start with just attribute checks, having attack being directly based off an attribute might make that attribute too important. So Acrobatics might start as a roll under DEX, whereas Attack would be 10 +[1/3 DEX]+level or so; and target defense [1/3 DEX + level] would apply as a penalty.   Some other derived stats might work similarly; Dragon Warriors has an Attack, Defense, Evasion, Magical Attack, Magical Defense, Stealth and Perception - actively rolled stats started at about 10 points higher than defenses.

ggroy: also thanks! Well, that beats THAC0. Again reminds me of Dragon Warriors, though I don't know what's better...probable subtraction or almost certain addition...