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Mearls takes a big gulp of the Kool-Aid

Started by droog, March 22, 2008, 08:50:34 PM

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droog

#15
March 23, 2008, 02:27:19 AM
They may not be the perfect names, but they're okay. A kicker kicks things off. A bang is a loud noise that makes you jump.
The past lives on in your front room
The poor still weak the rich still rule
History lives in the books at home
The books at home

Gang of Four
[/size]

brettmb2

#16
March 23, 2008, 02:29:21 AM
Quote from: droogThey may not be the perfect names, but they're okay. A kicker kicks things off. A bang is a loud noise that makes you jump.
Or you could use a catalyst and a trigger which are pretty easy to figure out.
Brett Bernstein
Precis Intermedia

JongWK

#17
March 23, 2008, 02:44:11 AM
Quote from: brettmbOr you could use a catalyst and a trigger which are pretty easy to figure out.

That'd be using common language that everyone can understand. What nonsense! ;)
"I give the gift of endless imagination."
~~Gary Gygax (1938 - 2008)

brettmb2

#18
March 23, 2008, 02:46:14 AM
Quote from: JongWKThat'd be using common language that everyone can understand. What nonsense! ;)
Stupid me! :)

Love that Avatar, Jong-Won.
Brett Bernstein
Precis Intermedia

gleichman

#19
March 23, 2008, 02:46:19 AM
Just my guess sitting on the sidelines...

For what its worth, I think Mearls was significantly influenced by the Forge and its quite likely that various concepts from there will make it into 4th Edition.

Of course if he ends up using any of the even half-way good concepts, the orgin of them won't in truth be the Forge. This is because of the fact that what good ideas exist at the Forge, exist there because them stole them from other places and renamed them.

If he ends up focusing on the crap (i.e. original to the) Forge ideas... he may will end up with something worse than 2nd edition.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

KrakaJak

#20
March 23, 2008, 03:02:56 AM
Ummmm, are "Kickers and Bangs" supposed to be part of the system?

I really don't understand what makes them significant. How do you make a player jump at charcter creation?

I'm very confuzzled.
-Jak
 
 "Be the person you want to be, at the expense of everything."
Spreading Un-Common Sense since 1983

droog

#21
March 23, 2008, 03:06:25 AM
Quote from: brettmbOr you could use a catalyst and a trigger which are pretty easy to figure out.
Riiiight.
The past lives on in your front room
The poor still weak the rich still rule
History lives in the books at home
The books at home

Gang of Four
[/size]

Gunslinger

#22
March 23, 2008, 03:28:05 AM
Quote from: droogRiiiight.
How about laxatives and hot peppers?
 

droog

#23
March 23, 2008, 04:19:42 AM
A bit polysyllabic for me.
The past lives on in your front room
The poor still weak the rich still rule
History lives in the books at home
The books at home

Gang of Four
[/size]

David R

#24
March 23, 2008, 08:15:14 AM
I like the idea of Mearls applying these hippie techniques to his regular games. Maybe because I do this often too.

Regards,
David R

flyingmice

#25
March 23, 2008, 10:28:06 AM
Quote from: gleichmanOf course if he ends up using any of the even half-way good concepts, the orgin of them won't in truth be the Forge. This is because of the fact that what good ideas exist at the Forge, exist there because them stole them from other places and renamed them.

The fact that they pre-existed doesn't mean that they "ripped them off." It's entirely possible that Kickers and Bangs, for example, were an independent invention. It's not like us old timers wrote this stuff down, and they are a logical outgrowth of stuff like hooks.

-clash
clash bowley * Flying Mice Games - an Imprint of Better Mousetrap Games
Flying Mice home page: http://jalan.flyingmice.com/flyingmice.html
Currently Designing: StarCluster 4 - Wavefront Empire
Last Releases: SC4 - Dark Orbital, SC4 - Out of the Ruins,  SC4 - Sabre & World
Blog: I FLY BY NIGHT

jeff37923

#26
March 23, 2008, 10:38:00 AM
Quote from: gleichmanFor what its worth, I think Mearls was significantly influenced by the Forge and its quite likely that various concepts from there will make it into 4th Edition.

And that makes me glad I cancelled my 4E preorder.
"Meh."

blakkie

#27
March 23, 2008, 11:16:31 AM
Quote from: droogThey may not be the perfect names, but they're okay. A kicker kicks things off. A bang is a loud noise that makes you jump.
My complaint isn't with the meaning of the names. They are fine that way. I just don't actually like them asthetically.
"Because honestly? I have no idea what you do. None." - Pierce Inverarity

blakkie

#28
March 23, 2008, 11:21:20 AM
Quote from: flyingmiceIt's not like us old timers wrote this stuff down....
Yeah you oldtimers were remiss in that. At least somebody's writing them down now. I count that as progress. Next up, some better names. :D
"Because honestly? I have no idea what you do. None." - Pierce Inverarity

KingSpoom

#29
March 23, 2008, 01:07:17 PM
Quote from: madunkiegThen make them.

For example, kickers and bangs have three flaws that I can see:

1. They are tied to particular characters, but don't necessarily encourage the group to get involved with one another (and can even discourage it, if they are badly done).

2. They are a means of classifying plot hooks based on the gamemaster's perspective, but they seem to be designed by players, which is clumsy (though I could be misreading this).

3. They only seem to set up the start of the story. Many other games include things like enemies, dependents, patrons and driving goals (to steal some examples from GURPS) to help create plot hooks. These are superior because they can reoccur throughout the story much more easily.
4: Bangs usually lead to illusionist play, which I find highly dissatisfying.  Save the old man from a bandit?  Okay, the old man is the guy who killed your father.  Couldn't save the old man?  The old man's wife is the one who killed your father.  Reading through the actual play, and posts about planning bangs, they usually read like a laundry list of "I'm gonna do -this- to the PC".

5: Since the premise of bangs is to make an interesting choice no matter what you choose, they often make you decide between the two most important things to your character.  Either way, you lose something important.  "Okay, spiderman, your choices are saving Mary Jane or a bus full of people that includes aunt May.  Choose."
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