This thread is continued from here:

http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=33047&page=6

The other thread went off on a bit of a tangent, since discussing the hostility on the Gaming Den is admittedly pointless, and leads to a long road to nowhere. I'd rather focus on game design issues in this subforum anyway, where such things belong. This class is technically weaker in combat than a core Druid from D&D 3.5, but is more efficient in assisting allies.....when using both healing and luck. The god, Nore (listed below), has an intelligent ferret as an animal sidekick, and I figured I'd have this class partially follow in his footsteps....which is part of the reason why the Luckbringer Druid has a smaller and more intelligent animal buddy than a core Druid. What we see here is the class in its current form.

We're playing in Paizo's Shackled City Adventure Path, and we've finally reached 5th-level.

Incidentally, the only class feature that I might modify is the Urban Companion ability. It's possible that I might make it so that the Luckbringer Druid will be able to choose any animal of Small or Tiny size to have as an animal sidekick. That list of animals might include small dogs, badgers, monkeys, and eagles....in addition to the traditional list of Wizard familiars.

I'm posting it here to just take a look at it, and see if I'm missing anything incredibly important.

Oh, and take note that this Druid variant is intended to be more Thief-like and Bardic than a traditional D&D 3.5 Druid.



LUCKBRINGER DRUID

The Luckbringer Druid is a variant sect of Druids that is generally believed to have been introduced by the god, Nore (a divine entity with portfolios in Healing, Luck, and Nature). It is also commonly believed that the Luckbringer Druid shares some origins with various clans of Leprechauns, although this has never been fully verified. It shares the same alignment restrictions and spell progression as the Druid class, but differs in many other ways. If the level advancement table and class feature descriptions of the Luckbringer Druid lacks a class feature of the Druid class, such as Wild Shape, then it does not gain that class feature. Levels of the Luckbringer Druid counts as levels of a standard Druid in terms of spellcasting ability, qualification for feats and prestige classes, and the like. A character must choose upon first becoming a Druid whether to be a core Druid or Luckbringer Druid. Once the choice is made, it cannot be changed or unmade, and the character may not later multiclass into the core Druid class or one of its variants.

Alignment: Any neutral (as Druid).

Religion: As a Druid.

GAME RULE INFORMATION

Luckbringer Druids have the following statistics.

Alignment: Any neutral (as Druid).

Hit Die: d8.

Class Skills

The Luckbringer Druid's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcane), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4.

Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Class Features

All of the following are class features of the Luckbringer Druid.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Luckbringer Druids are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the scimitar, and one martial or exotic weapon of his choice.

Luckbringer Druids are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

Base Save Bonuses: Fortitude (good), Reflex (good), and Will (good).

Base Attack Bonus: Average.

Spells: A Luckbringer Druid casts divine spells, which are drawn from the Druid spell list. His alignment may restrict him from casting certain spells opposed to his moral or ethical beliefs; see Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells, below (with the exception of the Aid spell). A druid must choose and prepare his spells in advance (see below).

The Luckbringer Druid manipulates spell energy in a slightly different way from a typical Druid. To prepare or cast a spell, the Luckbringer Druid must have a Charisma score (rather than Wisdom) equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Luckbringer Druid's spell is 10 + the spell level + the Luckbringer Druid's Charisma modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a Luckbringer Druid can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Druid. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score. He does not have access to any domain spells or granted powers, as a Cleric does.

The Luckbringer Druid may prepare and cast any spell on the Druid spell list, provided that he can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation.

Spontaneous Casting: The Luckbringer Druid has a wider range of spontaneous spells than a standard Cleric or Druid, although they are largely geared toward aiding others. The Luckbringer Druid may lose any prepared spell of equal or higher level in exchange for any of the following spells:

0-cure minor wounds, guidance, resistance; 1st-bless, cure light wounds, feather fall; 2nd-aid, cure moderate wounds, lesser restoration; 3rd-cure serious wounds, prayer, remove curse; 4th-break enchantment, cure critical wounds, restoration; 5th-atonement, mass cure light wounds, raise dead; 6th-find the path, mass cure moderate wounds, heal; 7th-greater restoration, mass cure serious wounds, resurrection; 8th-mass cure critical wounds, moment of prescience, regenerate; 9th-foresight, mass heal, true resurrection

Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells: A Luckbringer Druid cannot cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or his deity's (if he has one), with the exception of the Aid spell. Spells associated with particular alignments are indicated by the chaos, evil, good, and law descriptors in their spell descriptions.

Bonus Languages: A Luckbringer Druid's bonus language options include Sylvan, the language of woodland creatures. This choice is in addition to the bonus languages available to the character because of her race.

A Luckbringer Druid also knows Druidic, a secret language known only to Druids, which he learns upon becoming a 1st-level Luckbringer Druid. Druidic is a free language for a Luckbringer Druid; that is, he knows it in addition to his regular allotment of languages and it does not take up a language slot. Luckbringer Druids are forbidden to teach this language to non-Druids.

Druidic has its own alphabet.

Unbound: A Luckbringer Druid's oaths are relaxed, allowing him to wear metal armor or use metal shields with no loss of spellcasting, supernatural, or spell-like abilities.

Urban Companion (Ex): Instead of the Animal Companion, the Luckbringer Druid receives the Urban Companion class feature from Cityscape.

Nature's Friend (Ex): A Luckbringer Druid can improve the attitude of creatures devoted to nature. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check made to improve the attitude of a person. It can be used on one type of monster from the following list: Animals, Elementals, Fey, Magical Beast, Plants, and Vermin. The type of monsters that the Luckbringer Druid can influence in this way must be chosen at 1st-level. The Luckbringer Druid rolls 1d20 and adds his Luckbringer Druid level and his Charisma modifier to determine the Nature's Friend check result.

Woodland Stride (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a druid may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at her normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion still affect her.

Trackless Step (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a Luckbringer Druid leaves no trail in natural surroundings and cannot be tracked. He may choose to leave a trail if so desired.

Resist Nature's Lure (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a Luckbringer Druid gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against the spell-like abilities of fey.

Luck Pool (Su): The Luckbringer Druid possesses a point-based Luck Pool, with a point total equal to 1 + the character's Charisma modifier. This point total increases by 1 for every additional odd Luckbringer Druid level acquired (+1 point at 3rd-level, +2 points at 5th-level, etc.). Luck feats provide bonus points to this point total, based upon the number of luck rerolls each luck feat provides. This Luck Pool can be used to power luck feats, as well as the Luckbringing and Curse of Bad Luck class features. Using either class feature expends 1 point from the Luck Pool.

Curse of Bad Luck (Su): As an immediate action, a Luckbringer Druid can unleash a curse upon a foe. The target must be visible to the Luckbringer Druid and within 60 feet. The target of a Luckbringer Druid's curse takes a -1 penalty on attacks, saves, ability checks, skill checks, armor class, unarmed damage rolls, natural damage rolls, and weapon damage rolls for 1 hour thereafter. A successful Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 Luckbringer Druid's class level + Luckbringer Druid's Cha modifier) negates the effect. At 5th-level, and every four Luckbringer Druid levels thereafter, this penalty increases by 1 (-2 at 5th-level, -3 at 9th-level, -4 at 13th-level, and -5 at 17th-level).

Any effect that removes or dispels a curse eliminates the effect of a Luckbringer Druid's Curse of Bad Luck.

A Luckbringer Druid can utter only one Curse of Bad Luck per round, even if he has points left in his Luck Pool.

Luckbringing (Su): The Luckbringer Druid can use an immediate action to expend a point from his Luck Pool, and provide himself and his allies within 60 feet with a +1 luck bonus on attacks, saves, ability checks, skill checks, armor class, unarmed damage rolls, natural damage rolls, and weapon damage rolls for 1 full minute. This ability cannot affect skill checks made without die rolls, such as taking 10 or taking 20. At 5th-level, and every four Luckbringer Druid levels thereafter, this bonus increases by 1 (+2 at 5th-level, +3 at 9th-level, +4 at 13th-level, and +5 at 17th-level).

Luckbringer's Path: At every odd level (1st-level, 3rd-level, 5th-level, etc.), the Luckbringer can acquire a new talent....in the form of a bonus luck feat, the Track feat, the Trapfinding class feature, an additional type of monster for the Nature's Friend class feature, or he can acquire a level in Bardic Music for every odd level devoted to it. At 5th-level, the Luckbringer Druid has the option of choosing Evasion as a talent, and also has the option of choosing Improved Evasion at 11th-level as a talent (provided Evasion has already been acquired). At 3rd-level, he can acquire Uncanny Dodge, and also has the option of acquiring Improved Uncanny Dodge at 9th-level (provided Uncanny Dodge has already been acquired). Bardic Music acquired via Luckbringer's Path stacks with Bardic Music acquired via Bard levels. For example, a 5th-level Bard/3rd-level Luckbringer Druid who devotes both Luckbringer's Path talents to Bardic Music will use Bardic Music as a 7th-level Bard.

Venom Immunity (Ex): At 9th level, a Luckbringer Druid gains immunity to all poisons.

A Thousand Faces (Su): At 13th level, a Luckbringer Druid gains the ability to change his appearance at will, as if using the disguise self spell, but only while in her normal form. This affects the Luckbringer Druid's body but not her possessions. It is not an illusory effect, but a minor physical alteration of the Luckbringer Druid's appearance, within the limits described for the spell.

Timeless Body (Ex): After attaining 15th level, a Luckbringer Druid no longer takes ability score penalties for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any penalties he may have already incurred, however, remain in place.

Bonuses still accrue, and the Luckbringer Druid still dies of old age when his time is up.

I posted this in the other thread.

Like some others in this thread, I can't comment on 3E classes. So I'm trying to get  a handle on what the goal is for creating this class and the inspiration for this class is escaping me. Where did the idea come from? Is it a set of abilities that you like? Is the Luckbringer Druid based on somebody's book or comic book version of Merlin, maybe set in a modern era? Is there an archetype it is supposed to represent or a play niche it is supposed to fill?

EDIT: So based on the picture he's more of a leprechaun kind of guy than a Merlin kind of guy?

If the god archetype familiar is a ferret, I'd go with a different bird than an eagle which is one of the largest birds and one that culturally on earth has a lot of association with warriors and martial ability rather than sneaky and clever stuff. A crow or raven would seem to be a much better fit for a tricksy leprechaun kind of guy than an eagle.

Here's the link to the Druid for D&D 3.5:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm

Quote from: Bren;852648I posted this in the other thread.

Like some others in this thread, I can't comment on 3E classes. So I'm trying to get  a handle on what the goal is for creating this class and the inspiration for this class is escaping me. Where did the idea come from? Is it a set of abilities that you like? Is the Luckbringer Druid based on somebody's book or comic book version of Merlin, maybe set in a modern era? Is there an archetype it is supposed to represent or a play niche it is supposed to fill?

The idea for this class came to me when I realized that I liked healing and aiding the party, but not necessarily in exactly the same way that a Cleric does.

Back in 2008, I created a character named Hrothgar. If I were to try to convert the basic premise of this guy to AD&D, then the best conversion I could come up would be a dual-classed Magic-User/Bard (Fighter/Thief/Druid).....who also carries a big hammer, a deck of cards, and has a wisecracking Raven familiar. The problem here is that I really didn't want to multiclass this guy in D&D 3.5, for two reasons:

(1.) To avoid making things hyper-complicated.
(2.) To avoid diluting my character concept.

I originally created this class to fit various ideas:

(1.) A lucky trickster version of a Druid more suited for Gnomes or Leprechauns.
(2.) A Druidic divine agent of the god, Nore.
(3.) An intermediary between the world of Nature and mankind.
(4.) A dispensor of luck, healing, and good will.
(5.) An attempt to create a more elegant version of my D&D 3.5 Battle Sorcerer/Druid, and his wisecracking Raven familiar.....and do so without endlessly multiclassing.

The Luckbringer Druid was originally intended to be a divine agent of the God, Nore, whose divine portfolio is primarily focused on Luck, Healing, and Nature. On other occasions, the Luckbringer Druid acted as an intermediary between the world of the Fey and the world of humanity.

Many followers of Nore were comprised of Thieves, Bards, and Druids.....as well as various clans of Leprechauns that followed in his footsteps, paid him homage, and helped him in his capers.

My friends and I switched from AD&D to D&D 3.5 many years later. At that point, I had a Leprechaun trickster become a major foil for the adventuring party. My players never knew that this Leprechaun was a henchman/follower of Nore.

Quote from: BrenEDIT: So based on the picture he's more of a leprechaun kind of guy than a Merlin kind of guy?

Yes. If I had decided to make him a more Merlin kind of guy, then I probably would have given him all of the Knowledge skills, rather than a few of them.

Quote from: BrenIf the god archetype familiar is a ferret, I'd go with a different bird than an eagle which is one of the largest birds and one that culturally on earth has a lot of association with warriors and martial ability rather than sneaky and clever stuff. A crow or raven would seem to be a much better fit for a tricksy leprechaun kind of guy than an eagle.

Actually, my character does have a Raven as an animal sidekick. Another version of this character had a Raven sidekick for many years. This class just feels more like what the character was intended to be like all along.

But I figured that letting the class have any tiny or small animal as a sidekick gives the players more leeway (although the class doesn't particularly need an eagle as a sidekick).

Thanks for explaining. I find it kind of amusing that I guessed raven correctly. Good luck and welcome to the site. The details of class builds in 3E I leave to others who understand it.

Quote from: Bren;852665Thanks for explaining. I find it kind of amusing that I guessed raven correctly. Good luck and welcome to the site. The details of class builds in 3E I leave to others who understand it.

Thanks!

Being somewhat tied to leprechauns I think it could be thematically cool to include some bard spells into your spontaneous casting list. I still disapprove some of your spell choices, but I see that you are kind of set in them.

BTW I totally understand why you were told to make this a fully spontaneous spellcaster or at least create your own spell list (a la beguiler).


If this were a class of my design, my take on those spontaneous spells would be more like this:

0- level: lullaby, Detect Magic, Know Direction

Level 1: Entropic Shield, entangle, calm animals, cure light wounds

Level 2: Hideous Laughter, Alter Self, Cure Moderate Wounds, Aid, Barkskin, Hold Animal

Level 3: Dominate Animal, Plant Growth, Cure Serious Wounds

Level 4: Crushing Despair, Cure Critical Wounds, Command Plants, Geas (lesser)

Level 5: Glibness, Commune With Nature, Wall of Thorns, Cure Light Wounds (mass)

Level 6: Rainbow Pattern, Mislead, Repel Wood, Antilife Shell, Eyebite, Heal, Geas

Level 7: Animate Plants, Regenerate, Animal Shapes,

Level 8: Irresistible Dance, Cure Critical Wounds (mass), Control Plants,

Level 9: Heal (mass), Geas, Shambler


This is far from a finished thought process, but it gives you more insight what I am after. You have very general purpose spells in the spontaneous list, while I have thematical spells that are memorized only very rarely (except for some of them). That way when the situation arises and the Luckbringer Druid spontaneously brings out the exact spell that is needed, but is somewhat obscure, he/she will seem even more like a good luck charm.

Your list makes Luckbringer look like a substitute for a cleric.

Quote from: Moracai;852835Being somewhat tied to leprechauns I think it could be thematically cool to include some bard spells into your spontaneous casting list. I still disapprove some of your spell choices, but I see that you are kind of set in them.

BTW I totally understand why you were told to make this a fully spontaneous spellcaster or at least create your own spell list (a la beguiler).


If this were a class of my design, my take on those spontaneous spells would be more like this:

0- level: lullaby, Detect Magic, Know Direction

Level 1: Entropic Shield, entangle, calm animals, cure light wounds

Level 2: Hideous Laughter, Alter Self, Cure Moderate Wounds, Aid, Barkskin, Hold Animal

Level 3: Dominate Animal, Plant Growth, Cure Serious Wounds

Level 4: Crushing Despair, Cure Critical Wounds, Command Plants, Geas (lesser)

Level 5: Glibness, Commune With Nature, Wall of Thorns, Cure Light Wounds (mass)

Level 6: Rainbow Pattern, Mislead, Repel Wood, Antilife Shell, Eyebite, Heal, Geas

Level 7: Animate Plants, Regenerate, Animal Shapes,

Level 8: Irresistible Dance, Cure Critical Wounds (mass), Control Plants,

Level 9: Heal (mass), Geas, Shambler


This is far from a finished thought process, but it gives you more insight what I am after. You have very general purpose spells in the spontaneous list, while I have thematical spells that are memorized only very rarely (except for some of them). That way when the situation arises and the Luckbringer Druid spontaneously brings out the exact spell that is needed, but is somewhat obscure, he/she will seem even more like a good luck charm.

Your list makes Luckbringer look like a substitute for a cleric.

I actually was sorely tempted to add Bard spells to the Luckbringer Druid spell list, and haven't completely ruled it out.

And I actually like your spell list, as it looks thematically appropriate. My current version of the class works, but I'm still open to modifying it. Maybe I could provide a couple different paths for spontaneous casting. Yours could be one path, mine could be another, and....

....I've gotta look this over again. :hmm:

We have no other dedicated healers in our adventuring party (and we'll soon have some other players return), so I had the Luckbringer Druid take up the role of party healer. We used to have a Dragon Shaman in the party, but his healing abilities were very limited.

As mentioned before, I have to look at everything again.....and go back to the drawing board. Don't get me wrong; the current incarnation of the class is totally functional.....but you've given me some more ideas to ponder.

Oh, and I'd drop Fortitude as a good save, because I feel that all good saves should be a Monk thing only. Also, I think that all classes should have an obvious weakness. Monk's weakness is not his saves as it is considered by many being the weakest class of the bunch

Quote from: Moracai;852863Oh, and I'd drop Fortitude as a good save, because I feel that all good saves should be a Monk thing only. Also, I think that all classes should have an obvious weakness. Monk's weakness is not his saves as it is considered by many being the weakest class of the bunch

I'm not necessarily wedded to the Luckbringer Druid having all good saves, but I felt that it was thematically appropriate.....since Luckbringers are basically super-lucky. The Favored Soul is a Cleric variant, with full casting ability, and yet it also has all good saves like a Monk. I don't know... :hmm:

But even with the great saves, this class is still not quite as powerful as a core Wizard, Druid, or Cleric for D&D 3.5.

Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;852887I'm not necessarily wedded to the Luckbringer Druid having all good saves, but I felt that it was thematically appropriate.....since Luckbringers are basically super-lucky. The Favored Soul is a Cleric variant, with full casting ability, and yet it also has all good saves like a Monk. I don't know... :hmm:

But even with the great saves, this class is still not quite as powerful as a core Wizard, Druid, or Cleric for D&D 3.5.

True that.

I can see luck druid having all good saves. It isn't a game balance thing, it's just something I have gotten used to seeing. Didn't remember that about Favored Souls. I think that Pathfinder Oracle class is a better design overall for a spontaneous divine caster than FS, but doing a check in d20pfsrd shows that it has only Will save as a good save.

I'm going to add the option of variant spell paths for spontaneous casting, as I like much of the spell list you have going on up there. I'd probably add Polymorph Any Object to the spell list for the potential of high-level Leprechaun dickery, and perhaps a couple other things as well.