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Author Topic: Long-Term Campaigns Rock, Short-Term Games Not So Much  (Read 2756 times)

Abyssal Maw

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Long-Term Campaigns Rock, Short-Term Games Not So Much
« on: February 12, 2007, 04:09:15 PM »
Aha, now that you've read my needlessly provacative title,  your'e here to make your points! I hope...

Here's my position:

The long-term recurrent campaign is a default expectation for many gaming groups, but it gets a lot of negative press lately.

I'm not sure why! But hey, I'm sure I'll hear soon.

In the meantime, I'll talk about the merits of the awesomeness of the long term campaign vice the lameness of the one-shot or short term game.

My main one:

A long term campaign offers a way to manage a gaming group.

You see, I believe people don't actually get together to "play Gurps" or "play Vampire" or "Play (whatever)". They get together to play "JimBob's campaign" or "Peter's Aedorea campaign" or even "I am looking forward to playing my sorcerer guy" (or whatever).

If it were a revolving series of games or even (wince) one of those deals where some enterprising guy just pulls a game out at random once people start arriving, you have very little way to manage this gathering.  

Here are the benefits of a long term campaign regarding group cohesion:
* Nobody has to make a decision to what game is going to be played. Everyone knows. They knew before they showed up! They knew last week! They've already been talking about in email!

* Everyone has a role. The GM knows he is going to be the GM. The players know they are going to be players, and each player has roles within the playing group.

* The group that plays together, stays together: In Cheetoism (sorry Kyle!), this means the Forming, Storming and Norming parts are worked out and established ONCE. After a few sessions, if everything else checks out in the game (and between the people involved): you get something magical.

* Ees Not A Gang, Ees a Club!: There's a million different ways to have friends. I have musician friends, and I have online "Livejournal" friends. I have neighbor friends. I have friends at work. The guys that come to my place to game every Thursday night are special. They are what I call club friends. Even though we haven't established our gaming group as a club, we have a very clublike camaraderie. We're sportsmen. We hold group values of fairness and sportsmanship. And although I do occaisionally run into these guys outside of the game, I don't feel obligated to. We have established these bonds over time and reinforced them due to regularly taking part in an activity together. We are not unlike a bowling team or a softball team.

Whereas: Short term games can also do the above.. maybe? But don't really facilitate it. Except for special cases, I believe they facilitate a "drift in and drift out" kind of thing. Because who is in charge when a leadership decision has to be made? And what game is going to be played from week to week? Whose house? And do we have to spend the first couple of hours familiarizing or re-learning the rules before we play because we change games constantly?

With the short term group: everytime you switch an activity, you have to go through that arduous forming and storming part.

Further, there's group cohesion. You don't get that "Club friends" thing going on, because you have a much more generalized dynamic. Instead of being like a bowling team or a softball team, you end up like a group of guys that gets together to play softball, or bowl, or play paintball..or something else... depending on how the vote goes that week.

Finally:

I understand and accept that there is legitimate short term gaming and "one-shots" and what have you. But I truly believe that many times when groups are switching around systems like a smorgasbord, they are really DEMOing, or PLAYTESTING or TRYING OUT games, (often with a critical bent) rather than seriously playing them. A longterm campaign is like a weekly meal, like something you do with regularity. But a short term game that switches around often is more like a series of snacks, nibbled for taste.

I won't get into continuitous storylines just yet.

Ok, go ahead. Start yelling at me!
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Settembrini

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Long-Term Campaigns Rock, Short-Term Games Not So Much
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2007, 04:51:33 PM »
Campaigns are Adventure Gaming at it´s best.

All else is methadone.
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TonyLB

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Long-Term Campaigns Rock, Short-Term Games Not So Much
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2007, 05:42:58 PM »
Quote from: Abyssal Maw
In the meantime, I'll talk about the merits of the awesomeness of the long term campaign
Oh good!  Positivity.  I love positivity.  Long-term campaigns are, indeed, awesome in many ways.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw
vice the lameness of the one-shot or short term game.
This?  Eh.  Doesn't seem anywhere near as strong.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw
With the short term group: everytime you switch an activity, you have to go through that arduous forming and storming part.
Really?  That hasn't been my experience.  When people already have a solid social foundation, playing a different game may fail to suit the way they relate, but it's unlikely to force them to start their relationships over from scratch.  But maybe this is just a difference in our experiences.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw
But I truly believe that many times when groups are switching around systems like a smorgasbord, they are really DEMOing, or PLAYTESTING or TRYING OUT games, (often with a critical bent) rather than seriously playing them.
Why do you think those things are in opposition?  When I've tried out games, I've always tried to seriously play them.  I mean ... how else do you find out about the game?
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Abyssal Maw

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Long-Term Campaigns Rock, Short-Term Games Not So Much
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2007, 06:54:01 PM »
Quote from: TonyLB
how else do you find out about the game?


Well, that's my point. You only really find out about the game through playing it. The first couple of times is playing the game in order to be finding out about the game.

You don't actually getting around to playing the game for the purpose of enjoying it until later.

You have to master the game first.

PS, I'm full of positivity!
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TonyLB

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Long-Term Campaigns Rock, Short-Term Games Not So Much
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2007, 07:07:24 PM »
Quote from: Abyssal Maw
You don't actually getting around to playing the game for the purpose of enjoying it until later.

You have to master the game first.
So ... I didn't actually have fun in the short-run games I thought I was having fun in?  Wierd.  It seemed so real at the time.
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arminius

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Long-Term Campaigns Rock, Short-Term Games Not So Much
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2007, 07:17:20 PM »
Tony, why don't you describe what's great about short term games instead of trying to defend them against AM's opinion? There's an important difference between the two approaches to discussion.

And second, doesn't each approach (even if you prefer it) have pitfalls? What are they? How do you deal with them?

E.g. all else being equal, I posit that the unhappy player can be a bigger problem for longterm play, because if you want to change something as a player, you actually have to discuss it. Whereas in short-term play, the "gaming contract" is reset after a few sessions--and at that point, it's easier to drop out, propose a different game, or look for a chance to GM (so you can demonstrate how you like games to be run).

Obviously in long term play you need to be able to discuss if you're not happy with the game--seems kind of obvious, and not really that hard, but it's something to remember. And I still think that switching things up occasionally with different games or GMs can be a good idea.

Abyssal Maw

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Long-Term Campaigns Rock, Short-Term Games Not So Much
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2007, 07:25:28 PM »
Quote from: TonyLB
So ... I didn't actually have fun in the short-run games I thought I was having fun in?  Wierd.  It seemed so real at the time.


Oh I am fully willing to concede you had fun. This ain't story-games.

What I am saying is: You had fun, playing that demo.

Update: Elliot's on to me!
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Abyssal Maw

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Long-Term Campaigns Rock, Short-Term Games Not So Much
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2007, 07:44:08 PM »
Quote from: Elliot Wilen

And second, doesn't each approach (even if you prefer it) have pitfalls? What are they? How do you deal with them?


Absolutely true! Of course, I am brawling here, so I cleverly omitted the bad points of my preferred style. But since you asked, I'll admit them.

And the big one is the one you say: the longterm campaign is indeed a pitfall for the unhappy player. If you don't fit into the group, the long term campaign is your gaming death sentence!

 but I suspect your'e just a bit wrong:

Quote
E.g. all else being equal, I posit that the unhappy player can be a bigger problem for longterm play, because if you want to change something as a player, you actually have to discuss it. Whereas in short-term play, the "gaming contract" is reset after a few sessions--and at that point, it's easier to drop out, propose a different game, or look for a chance to GM (so you can demonstrate how you like games to be run).


You have entered the realm of the griefer!

The griefer is the unhappy player who doesn't fit in, and thinks everyone else is doing it wrong, no matter what the other group's enjoyment level is. He often likes to sabotage other people's gaming, because he is at heart, a selfish piece of crap. I would characterize most forgies as griefers. This is (obviously) based on my completely unfair bias against them, but also because of anecdotal evidence. There's a profile, and many of them do fit. They can admit it or not.

So unhappy gamer: he's in the game that everyone else loves and he can't stand. Sound familiar?

Ok, pretend he's a normal guy.

I think it's more likely for an unhappy "normal guy" player to completely drop out of an otherwise functional group. Normal guy goes on and forms another group or joins another group. Bam, he's still in. Or maybe he finds out he can't be happy anywhere and quits gaming altogether. Whatever. The guy is meaningless at that point. For some people, gaming is just a phase, anyhow. Oh yeah, I totally did this in February 2006. I got to the point where I was unhappy driving 30 minutes to the game and not getting much sorcerery  and trickery in. The GM made some rules mistakes I thought were kinda boneheaded and questionable. But I didn't try to ruin the game. I quietly put out feelers for new players and an alternate game night. I still keep in touch with the old group. I even have a player that straddles both groups. See? No prob. Because I'm a regular joe and I have no interest in ruining anyone else's good time even if my experience wasn't "perfect".

Nor do I feel traumatized or psychologically damaged by my experience.

Also, of note, I didn't wait until the end of campaign to drop out. I wrote a nice email, made my friendly excuses for leaving, and offered guaranteed slots to anyone who really wanted to play in my campaign on the alternate night. I think I made it clear I wasn't trying to steal players (and I truthfully wasn't). I didn't expect anyone to want to play in two games a week, but I was surprised when one of the players joined my group (and stayed in the old group) anyhow.  

But the griefer! The griefer doesn't play that way. The griefer sticks around and starts trying to convert the group or sabotage it. His good time is the most important. He's the quintessential (dare I say it? haha) date rape advocate. He starts screwing with other players, or screwing with the group's ability to accomplish .. whatever it is that the rest of the group is trying to accomplish. He's looking for PC vs PC conflicts all the time. He demands his "fun" even if he has to take advantage of other people in the process.
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TonyLB

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Long-Term Campaigns Rock, Short-Term Games Not So Much
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2007, 07:49:15 PM »
Quote from: Elliot Wilen
Tony, why don't you describe what's great about short term games instead of trying to defend them against AM's opinion? There's an important difference between the two approaches to discussion.
Cool, can do!

A short-run game has low commitment, so you can drag just about anybody in:  Folks who wouldn't join on for a campaign can easily be sold on something that runs just a few evenings (or, even more appealing, one evening).  This means I get to play with all sorts of friends, not just the dedicated gamers.

A short-run game gives a more palpable sense of freedom to burn down the world, if that's where the story leads:  So we loot the destroy the bridge from the material world to the spirit plain, irrevocably cutting off all shamans from the source of their power?  COOL!  Wasn't like we were going to be getting any better use out of it down the road than the fun we're having with it now.

A diet of short-run games lets your group relate to each other through many filters in short succession.  Like looking at a sculpture from many angles, I've found that this can help me to come to know my friends better.

More stuff as I think of it! :D
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David R

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Long-Term Campaigns Rock, Short-Term Games Not So Much
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2007, 07:51:27 PM »
I like long term campaigns for the following reasons:

1. Players get to discover /create their character over a longer period of time. Also, IME the interaction between the various pcs changes over time. The dynamics morph into something nobody really imagined. Good stuff.

2. As a GM, I get to slowly introduce interesting concepts - plot point, themes, characters - into the game that adds to the verisimilitude of the whole experience. I find this extremely difficult to do, in short term camapigns.

3. There's a lot of scope in terms of what the players can do, in long terms campaigns. They can take their time discovering things. They can wonder about the setting, without any real goals. They can interact a lot, with the setting, which only makes the campaign more real.

4. As a GM I get time to discover what the players like about the setting. What interest them. I can modify the campaign wih the feedback I get.

5.Long term campaigns are easier for me, because I can learn/apply all the rule stuff during the course of the campaign. The good thing about long term play IME is that I could get the opportunity to use every aspect of the rules. This makes it easier the next time I use the system.

6. Players can switch characters if they feel that their present character is not what they want to play. All they have to do is roll up a new character and I(we) can fit them into the story.

That's about all I got so far. Next, what I like about short term campaigns :D (Yeah, I'm greedy)

Regards,
David R

Abyssal Maw

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Long-Term Campaigns Rock, Short-Term Games Not So Much
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2007, 08:00:20 PM »
Quote from: TonyLB

A short-run game gives a more palpable sense of freedom to burn down the world, if that's where the story leads: So we loot the destroy the bridge from the material world to the spirit plain, irrevocably cutting off all shamans from the source of their power? COOL! Wasn't like we were going to be getting any better use out of it down the road than the fun we're having with it now.


I consider this a weakness... Your'e talking about the tendency of short term games to treat characters and storyline elements as disposable.
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droog

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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2007, 08:12:00 PM »
A short story isn't inferior to a novel. A two-hour film isn't inferior to a ten-year soap opera.

Having run my own twenty-year soap opera, I know whereof I speak, I think.

What is 'long', anyway? There was a time when I thought of a six-month game as short.
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TonyLB

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Long-Term Campaigns Rock, Short-Term Games Not So Much
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2007, 08:35:34 PM »
Quote from: Abyssal Maw
I consider this a weakness... Your'e talking about the tendency of short term games to treat characters and storyline elements as disposable.
Okay.  I don't see why that would be a weakness.  The characters and storyline elements are there for us to have fun with.  If that involves burning them to a crispy-crisp then cool!  It's not like they're going to complain.  They're imaginary.

Mind you, I do this when coming to the end of long campaigns, too ... once you're at the point where the whole thing only has to hold together another few sessions, it's remarkably freeing, whether you took years to get there or hours.  Short-term games just give me more of that particular flaring incandescence.
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kregmosier

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« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2007, 09:36:46 PM »
i 100% agree with AM, and also dig it for the same reasons David R. mentioned.  

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David R

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Long-Term Campaigns Rock, Short-Term Games Not So Much
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2007, 11:29:13 PM »
I like short term campaigns for the following reasons:

1. The players know what the goals are upfront. Galactus is coming, do something :eek: . Rob a loan shark to settle debts :cool:

2. I as the GM spend less time, on campaign prep.

3. The players seem to have more in the zone moments. What are these? Moments of pure concentrated roleplaying esp player vs player drama. Without having to be mindful of long term relationships or getting along together for the sake of the party, players are free to act in the moment. Roleplay by instinct. Sounds kind of dodgy, right? I suppose it is.

4. Also with regards to 3, the players have told me, that because they don't have to worry about long term character development, they are more reckless, in their heroism. They try things, because they realize that this is a short term campaign with specific goals, so why not play, as though one has nothin' to lose.

5. Short term campaigns allows the group to try out different types of games.

6. Short term campaigns allow us, to explore a specific theme within a specified time frame and then move on to other things.

That's about it.

Regards,
David R