Greetings!

Well, if I was looking to have some kind of sex differences modeled in D&D, I would put a ceiling of 14 Strength and 14 Constitution for women, and give women a +2 bonus to Charisma, or a +1 Charisma, +1 Wisdom bonus.

Generally though, I just say fuck it. It's a fantasy game. If a woman player wants to be XENA, fine. The game world verisimilitude isn't going to somehow break down and suffer if I have one or two women playing women characters that have an 18 Strength and an 18 Constitution. It just isn't.

Most of my women players though, strongly avoid having jacked muscles. They place a much higher value on being beautiful, seductive, and charming. It doesn't matter what class they are playing. Barbarians, Clerics, Wizards, whatever. They want to be sexy and charming. They don't care if they can't swim that well, or climb, or if they are awkward or clumsy in holding a spear. That dress needs to look good, they want to be able to seduce their way into wherever, and they want men and women around them to like them, and approve of them. The women players also like being good at magic, they like healing, singing, and dancing. And they like the idea of being friends with cute animals and faerie creatures.

Men, of course, have very different priorities.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on January 19, 2024, 02:35:34 AMMost of my women players though, strongly avoid having jacked muscles. They place a much higher value on being beautiful, seductive, and charming.

That's the entire point. Female players don't care about being able to play super jacked female characters. It's the male feminists that get up in arms when different races or sexes have different rules. So the main advantage of including sex differences in mechanics is to weed out troublesome players. Any increase in verisimilitude is just a bonus.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on January 19, 2024, 02:19:22 PM

Quote from: SHARK on January 19, 2024, 02:35:34 AMMost of my women players though, strongly avoid having jacked muscles. They place a much higher value on being beautiful, seductive, and charming.

That's the entire point. Female players don't care about being able to play super jacked female characters. It's the male feminists that get up in arms when different races or sexes have different rules. So the main advantage of including sex differences in mechanics is to weed out troublesome players. Any increase in verisimilitude is just a bonus.

Greetings!

Ahh, I see. GOOD! RAM it the fuck down, and make them REEE like the bitches they are! Fucking male feminists! *Laughing*

Yeah, make all kinds of sex-difference mechanics. The fucking male feminists are jello-filled morons. Weak, Beta Cucks. They don't deserve any respect, let alone poonyeeti from the women.

Why do the real men put up with these jackasses? Why are male feminists tolerated? When they scream and cry about this stuff, why aren't true men jumping on them hard and telling them to shut the fuck up, and stop being such a weak cuck?

Our fucking hobby seems to be full of so many weak, pussy men now. It is so shameful and pathetic. They are disgusting. It makes me feel like wiping wet dog shit off of my boot.

As you might imagine, when I encountered these morons in college, I didn't play well with them. *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

The biggest element of gender dimorphism in humans is size.  If I was really looking at that as an element of gameplay, I would make that a primary characteristic.  You could have an overlapping but gender skewed size chart.  Then you could do things like have strength be represented as a ratio of relative strength to size.  A smaller person with a strength of 14 would still be weaker than a larger person with a strength of 14. 

Quote from: BadApple on January 19, 2024, 10:43:06 PM
The biggest element of gender dimorphism in humans is size.  If I was really looking at that as an element of gameplay, I would make that a primary characteristic.  You could have an overlapping but gender skewed size chart.  Then you could do things like have strength be represented as a ratio of relative strength to size.  A smaller person with a strength of 14 would still be weaker than a larger person with a strength of 14.

Except women carry a higher body fat percentage than comparable men, even athletes. So pound for pound they're much weaker.

Quote from: SHARK on January 19, 2024, 02:35:34 AM
Most of my women players though, strongly avoid having jacked muscles.

I'm sure your women players are extremely representative. It probably has nothing to do with the views of women you bring to the table. But I guess that's true for your women players, which there are tons of. Binders full of women.

Quote from: BadApple on January 19, 2024, 10:43:06 PM
The biggest element of gender dimorphism in humans is size.  If I was really looking at that as an element of gameplay, I would make that a primary characteristic.  You could have an overlapping but gender skewed size chart.  Then you could do things like have strength be represented as a ratio of relative strength to size.  A smaller person with a strength of 14 would still be weaker than a larger person with a strength of 14.

To blow up the problem even more: one of the things that makes it really hard to take numeric ability scores seriously. There's no reasonable way to represent strength differences on a scale of 1-10 (or -5 to 5, etc.) from something like a rat to a dragon.

But even restricting ourselves to just talking about humans: Trained female athletes are below average strength in men, at least when it comes to upper-body / hand & arm movements. (And well, adventuring generally would be a total body endeavor so you're limited by your weakest points). It's not really clear what that turns into numerically, and I don't know how to line up statistical SDs between real performance and dice distribution on chargen methods, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to put it in the 8-12 range.

If you give a woman character an average strength of 8 and a man character an average strength of 12, more people are going to make male fighters than female ones. Female characters will be disproportionately rogues and clerics and stuff. Then, when you take an average of the characters people actually make, you'll find out the true average for female characters is like 6 and for men it's like 14. Congratulations, you have achieved complete bullshit.

Quote from: pawsplay on January 20, 2024, 04:24:59 PM

Quote from: SHARK on January 19, 2024, 02:35:34 AM
Most of my women players though, strongly avoid having jacked muscles.

I'm sure your women players are extremely representative. It probably has nothing to do with the views of women you bring to the table. But I guess that's true for your women players, which there are tons of. Binders full of women.

Let's say he has 5 men and 1 woman at his table. That's 1 in 6 for women.

Let's say he adds you to diversify things. Hmmm, now that's...damn my math, help me out, what are the ratios now?

Quote from: pawsplay on January 20, 2024, 09:16:12 PM
If you give a woman character an average strength of 8 and a man character an average strength of 12, more people are going to make male fighters than female ones. Female characters will be disproportionately rogues and clerics and stuff. Then, when you take an average of the characters people actually make, you'll find out the true average for female characters is like 6 and for men it's like 14. Congratulations, you have achieved complete bullshit.

Well, considering women make up less than 2% of construction workers, plumbers, electricians, and other skilled tradesmen (many of which require much more strength than a white collar soy boy would think) so while you have achieved bullshit, you've still over-represented women...

Quote from: pawsplay on January 20, 2024, 04:24:59 PM

Quote from: SHARK on January 19, 2024, 02:35:34 AM
Most of my women players though, strongly avoid having jacked muscles.

I'm sure your women players are extremely representative. It probably has nothing to do with the views of women you bring to the table. But I guess that's true for your women players, which there are tons of. Binders full of women.

Greetings!

Yes, very representative. Feminine, normal, women. Women that love men, and families, and children. And playing D&D. Women that love being normal, healthy women that have not been mind-fucked by Feminism, or Marxism, or being depraved.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Greetings!

Hmmm...I wonder what kind of stats Belorussian Katya Kavaleva would have? 2-time World Kickboxing Champion, she is 6'5" and weighs 200-lbs. Imagine having a wrestling match with her! *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on January 22, 2024, 01:24:40 AM
Greetings!

Hmmm...I wonder what kind of stats Belorussian Katya Kavaleva would have? 2-time World Kickboxing Champion, she is 6'5" and weighs 200-lbs. Imagine having a wrestling match with her! *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I think she is the perfect stand out exception to the rule that is the perfect example for a Player character, important NPC or antagonist.

This is the type of women that would be perfectly natural as warriors.

I like the RQ idea of a Size stat that was proposed earlier on this thread, she would have Size 2 or so, alongside men of that stature, as well.

And she should stand out in game with people being in awe at her stunning stature and impressive athletic abilities.

It's important to note that, even being big and tall she doesn't have the "Abby from the Last of Us" roided body type. She looks lean, fit and strong but still has the profile of a woman. In full plate harness and with a closed helmet, sure she could be confused for a man.

But, in regular clothing she would never be mistaken by a man.

This is what actual fighting women would look like. The body builder type that looks like a long hair beardless man can only be achieved with a lot of roids and outside of specific transmutation magics or scifi genetic enhancements wouldn't make sense in any setting, as roids really destroy your internal organs and cannot be sustained indefinitely. They are used by people that want to sel their looks, either as actors or as competitive body builders, but the health complitactions are almost never worth it. This is why so many body builders die young.

Quote from: SHARK on January 22, 2024, 01:24:40 AM
Greetings!

Hmmm...I wonder what kind of stats Belorussian Katya Kavaleva would have? 2-time World Kickboxing Champion, she is 6'5" and weighs 200-lbs.

She's long and lean without significant muscle mass. Realistically she's Str 12, pad it to Str 14 because fantasy has strong women without bulging muscles. Con 14, Dex 15.

Quote from: Cipher on January 22, 2024, 03:18:15 AM

Quote from: SHARK on January 22, 2024, 01:24:40 AM
Greetings!

Hmmm...I wonder what kind of stats Belorussian Katya Kavaleva would have? 2-time World Kickboxing Champion, she is 6'5" and weighs 200-lbs. Imagine having a wrestling match with her! *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I think she is the perfect stand out exception to the rule that is the perfect example for a Player character, important NPC or antagonist.

This is the type of women that would be perfectly natural as warriors.

I like the RQ idea of a Size stat that was proposed earlier on this thread, she would have Size 2 or so, alongside men of that stature, as well.

And she should stand out in game with people being in awe at her stunning stature and impressive athletic abilities.

It's important to note that, even being big and tall she doesn't have the "Abby from the Last of Us" roided body type. She looks lean, fit and strong but still has the profile of a woman. In full plate harness and with a closed helmet, sure she could be confused for a man.

But, in regular clothing she would never be mistaken by a man.

This is what actual fighting women would look like. The body builder type that looks like a long hair beardless man can only be achieved with a lot of roids and outside of specific transmutation magics or scifi genetic enhancements wouldn't make sense in any setting, as roids really destroy your internal organs and cannot be sustained indefinitely. They are used by people that want to sel their looks, either as actors or as competitive body builders, but the health complitactions are almost never worth it. This is why so many body builders die young.

Greetings!

Yep, Cipher! Very true! She is definitely impressive! I imagine to beat her she would make you work for it!

There's a few women about that can bring far more than the expected norm to the table.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK