So you run Personal Horror, but can´t tell about it?
I´m puzzled, yet intrigued.

Quote from: SettembriniSo you run Personal Horror, but can´t tell about it?
I´m puzzled, yet intrigued.

My players feel the same way about most of the campaign ideas I throw at them...:cool:

Regards,
David R

I'd say with personal horror, you've got to pick a theme and stick with it. I haven't really worked out if you need to limit your theme beyond common sense (the theme shouldn't be "bunnies versus kitties" or shit like that), but it seems like really good horror is always dramatising some sort of idea. Buffy wasn't pure horror, but I think it did a good job of this, for a TV show. It took conflicts from the main characters' lives and represented them as monsters or villains who the characters fought. Zombie movies do this all the time. Dawn of the Dead (the original) was all about the idea that people in the grips of consumerism and zombies are similar to one another, for example.

I think you can be cool and still have personal horror.

Evangelion.

Sure the kid pilots a giant robot. He still sucks at life. And gets sucked into a spacial anomoly. And dissolves. And is literally *forced* to kill a close friend. And gets crucified. And stuff.


Bad shit can still happen to "kewl" people.

Quote from: beejazzI think you can be cool and still have personal horror.

Evangelion.

Sure the kid pilots a giant robot. He still sucks at life. And gets sucked into a spacial anomoly. And dissolves. And is literally *forced* to kill a close friend. And gets crucified. And stuff.


Bad shit can still happen to "kewl" people.

Have you run any kind of games like this?

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RHave you run any kind of games like this?

Regards,
David R

Meh. You'd need a gamer with quite the appetite for pain in order to play this. Not that such people don't exist. I'm sure some might get a kick out of it.

Thing is... even if one of my players did have such an appetite... I'm running the game for eleven others, too.

I would play in such a game, given half a chance. Hell yeah. If it was done well, I'd stick with it.

Quote from: David RHave you run any kind of games like this?

Run one? Hell, we're (beejazz and I) trying to write one!

For me personal horror is about hope and despair.
It is about being free to make choices, yet being confined in actually affecting things on the large scale.

As a GM you don't strive to keep a balance between these extremes, but to keep them shifting a quickly as possible from one end of the spectrum to the other.
Don't let them rest.
Force the PCs to make quick choices...then present them with the ugly consequences of their choices.
Just when all seems to be lost, dangle a glimmer of hope in front of them, just to have it snatched away, if they don't make a tough decision.
Rinse.
Repeat.

The game which does this best, is Wraith:the Oblivion.
So you are a ghost. Sucks to be you.
But wait, at least you are still around and can look out for the things and people you care for. Could be worse, right?
Well, it gets. You watch all the people going on with their lives, making foolish choices, without being able to really affect anything.
Whats more, you also have this annoying voice in your head, which makes a point to highlight all the bad stuff going on with your loved ones for you... things that, if you remember correctly, are not going to affect.
And that makes the voice stronger.
Meanwhile you are busy dodging the ghost goverment, who want you to enlist you to their ranks, giving you a set of new responsibilities, while keeping you away from the things you REALLY care about.
But if you don't join up with them, you have no protection against the Spectres (ugly, evil ghosts), who might rend you to pieces for good measure (did I mention that when you die as a ghost, you nearly always come back, but have to go through a nighmarish hellscape first, confronting you with your worst fears-plus the voice in your head gets stronger by it? Well I did now.)
There are also other groups, not related to the ghost goverment, that you might join up for protection. Except those groups are at odds with the goverment and sometimes each other, giving you a lot more to do and not doing the things you really care about (meanwhile the voice in your head keeps getting stronger...)
And you can learn secret powers, giving you fantastic abilities (but to achieve really great results you have to give in to the voice in your head) or even allowing you to affect the lands of the living.
Sounds like a good deal? Well, using them wil make you a criminal and the goverment will REALLY try to bring you down. Now you are REALLY dependent on your new "friends" (Did I mention they are structured like the Mafia? Well I did now.), who can basicly ask anything from you.
And when you really lose your nerve and the voice in your head (the Shadow) takes over your mind, it can use those powers to actually harm those you care about...sucks to be you.
You can band together with likeminded wraiths, keeping watch for (and on) each other and helping each other complete their goals...but can you really trust them, when they could be spies, masquerading Spectres (yes, some of them can appear normal) or controled by their shadows. Or maybe their unfinished business isn't what you think it is and they are using you to further their own ends. You better keep them under control, yes?

Are you wondering at this point that what your Shadow is whispering into your ear is starting to make a whole lot of sense?

Quote from: alexandroAre you wondering at this point that what your Shadow is whispering into your ear is starting to make a whole lot of sense?

Have you ever run a campaign where pcs played the shadow role? Although IMO I don't really consider WW games as personal horror -many folks do - I always thought that Wraith was very much in tune with what I consider as PH. Wraith came in second after Mage on my list of all time favourite WW games.

Regards,
David R

Indeed.

Vampire could have been PH (all the things that made Wraith what it is were there, but nipped in the bud).

Werewolf and Hunter could have been PH (if they focused on the "being drafted to fight in a war we can't win" theme, instead of kewl powers).

Mage never really was PH, but thats OK, it is great the way it is.

The other WoD Game that has great PH horror potential is one you really wouldn't expect (its second in my personal hit list after Wraith):
Changeling (1st edition only)

Quote from: alexandroMage never really was PH, but thats OK, it is great the way it is.

Very true.

QuoteThe other WoD Game that has great PH horror potential is one you really wouldn't expect (its second in my personal hit list after Wraith):
Changeling (1st edition only)

Hey now, this is interesting. What does Changeling have that makes you think it has potential to be a PH game ?

Regards,
David R

Well, first off, it is (at least in its first incarnation) not so much a game about faeries in the modern world, but of generational conflict.
You have three age groups (kids, teens, adults) going about their lifes and trying to find happiness and fullfillment in it.
They see a hidden part of the world and have this vision of perfection that is hard to describe, a sort of guiding principle.
Naturally, being in a different phase of their life when this realization comes, this phase is most closely tied to their understanding of this principle. And naturally they are afraid if their connection to it is going to fade away, if their personal identity, the way of going about in their life, changes.
Kids are afraid of growing up, of not having time for their invisible friends, of not being able to have fun anymore.
Teens are afraid of losing their passion, of becoming complacent and being just a regular joe with a 5-day week and a 40-hour week.
Adults are afraid of having lost the best parts of their lives and are trying to experience everything, but in a concious way (not like the kids and teens, who don't know how good they have it).

I can totally relate to all of this and it became clear to me, when watching "The Last Unicorn":
As a kid I enjoyed the movie, because I liked the imaginary fairytale world.
As a teen I really liked the bittersweet romance, because it touched my heart.
As a adult I wondered how I could have missed out on the beautiful symbolism and the hidden archetypes of all the characters.
...and later I realized that all these parts were equally important aspects in my life.

But now imagine you had the power to stay forever in one aspect of your life: this is what Changeling is about.
Kids that never grow up...
Teens that never settle down...
Adults that never grow tired of experiencing life...
...in their minds. Because you see, moving through these phases is a natural process of personal growth and so the Changelings become, by their very nature, something not-natural, something alien (or fey).
The dream of being Peter Pan turned into a nightmare.

This is the second important aspect, the feeling of being cast out from society the pressure to conform and the inability to communicate anything about the things you see and feel to the world at large... how they deal with this is what drives most Changeling stories.
They can choose not to make any compromises, to stay forever the way they are, finding somewhere where their odd behaviour isn't noticed (i.e. faking the eccentric artist etc.), but if they aren't confronted with the reality they risk slipping deeper into their fantasy and going completely off the rocker...
The can cave in and change to fit in with society, but often society changes so fast and what they are doing isn't done by conviction, but because they think they have to. And when you change enough you might just forget who you really are and not care for anything anymore.
So the balance between "just being yourself" and "being what others expect of you" is what really drives home the game.

The third part is the part of the Dreaming, where the subconcious thoughts of you and your enviroment take a very real quality for you. That is really scary, because we are talking about the WoD here, the most wretched place there is. Imagine the worst a psychopatic serial killer acts out- any two-bit accountant probably daydreams stuff that is ten times worse, when his boss has passed him AGAIN on the promotion.
Dealing with your own dreams and fears is hard.
Being forced to deal with everyone elses dreams and fears (on a regular basis) is HORROR of the most personal kind.

That is what made Changeling great.
Second Edition ruined this by:
- making Banality an objective thing (now you stay close to your fae side if you act childlike- no matter how old you are- and you become banal of you do "boring" things like collecting stamps- no matter how much passion you feel for your stamp collection)
- offering a myriad of ways to bring mortals into the Dreaming (removing the isolation aspect)
- making the Dreaming cute instead of scary
- offering a multitude of factions, houses etc. and making the game a political one, instead of a personal one

What I want to know is how anyone runs horror games with players cracking jokes all the time. Because most gamers I know crack jokes throughout a game session. This is alright if it's action or schticky or even drama in style but pretty much fucks horror. As GM I make all this effort to build up dramatic tension, then someone cracks a joke.

Alexandro, I get a strong Robert Holdstock (sp?) vibe on your views of Changeling. Brings to mind what Dave Langford said of Holdstock's work - "he writes the real stuff". Yeah dark(?) fantasy as PH seems a good way of looking at things.

JimBob, what can I say? Players cracking jokes really spoils the whole atmosphere regardless of genre, but with horror it's even worse. No advice except the usual "talk to your players" ....

Regards,
David R

I don't find it spoils other genres as it does horror. In most games, players are able to crack a joke, laugh, then refocus on what they're doing. The mood is lightened, but it's not ruined.

I think it's that humour is the opposite of horror, while it's just parallel or an offshoot of drama, action, scifi, etc.