I'm writing rules for a wacky Fallout style game. I want to come up with a concept, like Aspects (though i'm not going to use Aspects in the main since I've never played a game that has them for one thing), called Legends. The idea is that, instead of gaining xp at the end of the adventure, players receive some sort of tag/aspect related to their experience, for example 'Saviour of Vault 101'. But I'm not entirely sure how to make this work. It's more a reputation thing I suppose, but in mechanical terms it's use becomes vague.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;387313I'm writing rules for a wacky Fallout style game. I want to come up with a concept, like Aspects (though i'm not going to use Aspects in the main since I've never played a game that has them for one thing), called Legends. The idea is that, instead of gaining xp at the end of the adventure, players receive some sort of tag/aspect related to their experience, for example 'Saviour of Vault 101'. But I'm not entirely sure how to make this work. It's more a reputation thing I suppose, but in mechanical terms it's use becomes vague.

Well, that's pretty much aspects to me--Legends are simply earned ones that tie to accomplishments. They can be tagged for a variety of reasons but most likely social interactions, and reputation or intimidation.

Quote from: Silverlion;387390Well, that's pretty much aspects to me--Legends are simply earned ones that tie to accomplishments. They can be tagged for a variety of reasons but most likely social interactions, and reputation or intimidation.

Exactly what i was thinking.  Say you have the "Pitt Fighter" Legend/Aspect earned from being a slave-gladiator, you can use it as you said for various interaction with NPC's.  It could be a positive or negative as well...wateland toughs think you're a badass, but might want to test their mettle against you constantly.  In established civilized enclaves, "your kind" may be looked on with suspicion and fear.

So yeah, exactly what Silverlion said.

Quote from: Silverlion;387390Well, that's pretty much aspects to me--Legends are simply earned ones that tie to accomplishments. They can be tagged for a variety of reasons but most likely social interactions, and reputation or intimidation.

Yes, i suspect this is the best way of doing things.

I just wondered if there was another way to have such legendary qualities without raising the level of ability amongst the characters. I personally don't care for conventional xp points anymore - get xp make yoru character better - it just creates a constant arms race and an inexorable rise to an upper limit.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;387499Yes, i suspect this is the best way of doing things.

I just wondered if there was another way to have such legendary qualities without raising the level of ability amongst the characters. I personally don't care for conventional xp points anymore - get xp make yoru character better - it just creates a constant arms race and an inexorable rise to an upper limit.

Then toss out the whole notion.  There's no stone tablet that says "THOU MUST INCLUDE A MECHANICAL MEANS FOR PROGRESSION, AN LO IT SHALL BE CALLED EXPERIENCE POINTS".    

I'm sure there are alternatives...although really, you might simply be substituting names and mechanics for *another* set of names and mechanics.  That is, if you're not collecting XP perse, and you're instead building your character's Legend/Aspects, isn't the end result the same?  (mechanical modifiers accrued for bonuses in various situations)

I dumped the whole progression/experience/levels concept in "the Dead" completely, but I felt it was well within genre.  Not sure that it couldn't be the same for a post-apocalyptic scenario.

Quote from: kregmosier;387504Then toss out the whole notion.  There's no stone tablet that says "THOU MUST INCLUDE A MECHANICAL MEANS FOR PROGRESSION, AN LO IT SHALL BE CALLED EXPERIENCE POINTS".    

I'm sure there are alternatives...although really, you might simply be substituting names and mechanics for *another* set of names and mechanics.  That is, if you're not collecting XP perse, and you're instead building your character's Legend/Aspects, isn't the end result the same?  (mechanical modifiers accrued for bonuses in various situations)

I dumped the whole progression/experience/levels concept in "the Dead" completely, but I felt it was well within genre.  Not sure that it couldn't be the same for a post-apocalyptic scenario.

Indeed, a solid idea. I dumped it entirely for Hearts & Souls, sure you might get a retcon, or a character rebuild but that's completely whim based. In High Valor, you track triumphs and dooms--good things and bad things that happen, get 10 of either sort and you get a small improvement. Since starting characters are already bad-ass its a functional mechanical advancement with a small boost, and with a story aspect to it. You might be able to do the same after all: Wiped out the slavers of Sheol Gulch, Freed Slaves in New Greenacres, and recovered Lincoln's Head might all give someone "Broken Chains" traits for benefits in dealing with slaves, and penalties with slave dealers--if applicable. Yet that's really a simple and obscured mechanic.

Quote from: Silverlion;387557Indeed, a solid idea. I dumped it entirely for Hearts & Souls, sure you might get a retcon, or a character rebuild but that's completely whim based. In High Valor, you track triumphs and dooms--good things and bad things that happen, get 10 of either sort and you get a small improvement. Since starting characters are already bad-ass its a functional mechanical advancement with a small boost, and with a story aspect to it. You might be able to do the same after all: Wiped out the slavers of Sheol Gulch, Freed Slaves in New Greenacres, and recovered Lincoln's Head might all give someone "Broken Chains" traits for benefits in dealing with slaves, and penalties with slave dealers--if applicable. Yet that's really a simple and obscured mechanic.

Absolutely...hell, go fullbore "Fallout-on-360" and call them "Achievements".

TBH i'm having problems coming up with a core mechanic. I want a success based system similar to WoD (roll dice pool count successes) so that opposed rolls can use the opposing stat as the difficulty, but scaling stuff is not easy at all. If pc stats are the same scale as the difficulties they face then it's going to be too hard.

If we assume using d6 and stats rated 1-5 (which is an optimal range, not too wide), then someone tries to Shoot (5) an target with Dodge 5, he has to roll 5 dice scoring only successes on 5 or higher which is pretty tight it seems to me.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;388099If we assume using d6 and stats rated 1-5 (which is an optimal range, not too wide), then someone tries to Shoot (5) an target with Dodge 5, he has to roll 5 dice scoring only successes on 5 or higher which is pretty tight it seems to me.

Is there a failure rate for 1's? That was a problem with old WOD the more dice you had the higher chance of a botch. They fixed it after a while, but it was always odd.

Opposed rolling gives you more randomness, which might fit for Fallout, but it complicates things.)

Example Shoot (4) vs Dodge (5) (Target number of success is always 5+)

Shooter gets 5, 3, 2, 4  Dodge gets 5,5, 1, 1. With no failure from 1's that means the dodging person gets out of the way. If 1's eat successes. Then that means he got not successes and fails. The shooter gets 1 hit, and perhaps 1 wound/consequence.

Try again same system, 5, 1, 6,6 the 1 eats the five, but the two 6, do we ant them to explode? I'll say yes 4, 2. No additional successes. We apply 2 hits vs  4,2,2, 1. No successes. They take 2 wounds/consequences.

Your method would work like this Shooter (4) vs Dodge (5) 4,1,2 6. Do ones and 6es do anything? Let's say yes.  6 rerolls and gets 6  and then 4. The one eats one success. But the other still hits.

The problem with your system is a defending skill of 1, is always useless. Since they roll anything and hit. Unless 1's are auto failures, but that makes for some odd hi jinks logically. Someone has to pay for Dodge 1, that doesn't DO anything, no matter how its sliced. On the other hand, if you use my method, they still need at least 1 success to hit you at dodge 1.

At least, I think.

My brain is addled, so forgive me for rambling.

I like this idea a lot.

Reminds me of the GOO version of A Song of Ice and Fire. It had a mechanic for epithets. Should a character earn the reputation of "rake," he would then get a bonus or a penalty, depending on the situation. Can he make the people believe he didn't miss the battle because he was boinking a bar wench? -2 to that roll, due to his reputation! It could also work in his favor. After all, how could he be in the throne room, stabbing the king in the back, when he was busy with the cook's daughter in the cellar? +2!!

It was a pretty clever system. And now that you brought it up, I may include that in my current project.

As far as your base mechanic issue, I don't think you could go with a 1-5 spectrum with a D6. Perhaps a D8 or D10.

Then a Shoot of 5 vs a Dodge of 5, you could get nearly a 50% success rate on a D10, a little less on a D8. So, two or three success, perhaps with a D10, but with two characters who are presumedly the best at what they do (they both have maxed those skills) it should probably be closer than that. With a D8, I think you might get closer to the result you want.

If you're married to the D6, then maybe your range for skills needs to be shortenrd, with four being the max. Not sure that gets you where you want to go though.

A different mechanic and possibly diceless. Not sure if this would work as a core post-apoc mechanic but it highlights two ideas that I think are required:

1. Loot. Scavenging is important as of course technology and equipment is art a premium. If yo uplay Fallout you'll spend a lot of time scavneging corpses, enemies and the environment for stuff you need.
2. Ammo. Ammo is what I will use in the game to refer to finite tech/gear resources (ie not just bullets). So this concept, a player character resource tracked as a finite pool that can be replenished in specific equally finite ways, is among the most important aspects of a character.

So, characters have Stats rated 1-5. When a character attempts an action he simply compares his stat to the difficulty. No roll, if the stat at least equals the difficulty he succeeds. If he doesn't have the stat high enough he can spend Ammo points to increase it. The difficulty is either explicit, if the action is simple, or hidden, if tension or necessity calls for it.

If the player desires he can call for the action to become a 'loot' action. Here the difficulty is explicit and replaced by a random roll. So basically the GM rolls against the player's stat. The player can then spend Ammo to increase the stat in order to succeed as necessary, but the idea is that, if the result is higher than the difficulty the character 'loots' the difference in Ammo.

That's a very basic concept. I don't know how viable or even desirable diceless mechanics are (tbh, not very I'm thinking), but it highlights the relevance and importance of the concept of Ammo and gear in the post-apoc setting. I don't think Ammo would work if it were merely a mechanic to gain extra dice in a roll.

This thread got me playing Fallout 3 again. I was spooking myself, exploring fire ant layers until about 1 AM.

What I do enjoy the most out of the game is definitely the interactions with other characters, but it doesn't seem to happen as often as I'd like.

How populated will your world be? What will be the desired RP/Combat ratio?

I like what you have going on so far, keep it going!

Nothing constructive to add, but I think "Legend of the Wasteland Mechanic" is a very evocative title. I envision a guy with a car trunk full of tool kits (Fallout 2 players know what trunk I mean).

Quote from: Nihilistic Mind;390035This thread got me playing Fallout 3 again. I was spooking myself, exploring fire ant layers until about 1 AM.

What I do enjoy the most out of the game is definitely the interactions with other characters, but it doesn't seem to happen as often as I'd like.

How populated will your world be? What will be the desired RP/Combat ratio?

I like what you have going on so far, keep it going!

Pretty populated actually, though not spread evenly for obvious reasons.

It's a gonzo world - this is psychotronic post apocalypse. There will be zombies, cyborgs, robots, cloned presidents, psychics and mutants and all the good stuff. So, superficially at least, more action-oriented. Consequently I'm trying to decide which stats to have (no skill/attribute division, just stats for simplicity's sake so everyone has some chance to do anything).

The biggest problem I have right now is working with a concept I call Ammo. This is a resource that represents the scarce nature of post apocalyptic wastelands and the scavenger nature of the 'ronin' lifestyle (essentially the pc's are wandering heroes/anti-heroes as they choose).

How Ammo is intended to work is that Ammo will have to be spent in order to do certain things. At the moment it's used for field healing, bonus dice, special talents/merits (and to offset negative traits/flaws) and combat (ante 1 Ammo each round to participate). I have toyed with the idea of making every stat roll (ie nto just combat and medicine) requrie Ammo be spent, but that might be too far. Players gain Ammo by making a loot roll in place of a stat roll, and looting dead opponents in combat.

Then there's Rads, which is where it gets more complicated. Psychics and mutants are powered by radiation, essentially. So they don't have Ammo at al, though they can receive it and break it down into Rads. Instead they use Rads in the same way, for the same functions. Unique to such characters Rads power their special abilities, which, as you can imagine, they have (psychics are a little different to mutants but for rules purposes draw from the same power). Rads are acquired differently: no looting. Instead they draw it ambiently from the environment, like mana for mages in certain other games. They also have to deal with social stigma of being different in a predominantly Norm-obsessed society. I'm also toying with the idea of having a critical mass concept where the mutant/psychic cannot risk acquring too many Rads or else they might...explode and give everyone cancer or something!

Legend traits will function like aspects and be powered/offset by Ammo/Rads as appropriate.