Lurker first post, working on: How does one address healing in a non-divine magic world when natural healing is not an option, long term dungeon crawl for example. Standard sword and sorcery world, not D&D, with no divine magic.
My current working frame, input welcomed:
Combat drugs, various, remove wounds while doubling natural healing time. Multiple use penalties. Was it the Drunken Master that got temp hp for drinking heavily? Proactive combat drugs?
Alchemy, a Troll blood potion for a minor regeneration effect that would wear off. Think scurvy. Interesting resource management component.
Life transference to move wounds from one living thing to another. Think Cast Cure Light Wounds, now either I have to naturally heal that damage myself or I can cast for free CAUSE Light Wounds. In this case, "Druids" are casters that focus on Life magic and are better at this kind of thing. I'm okay with transference.
Hope you didn't like your horse, you were hurt pretty bad.
True Neutral?
Glad to be here. :)
Erik
Honest answer?
Stop thinking of the D&D paradigm as the end all and be all of magic rules.
Outside of D&D magic healing is just another type of magic that whatever the setting's magic users can do.
So the simple solution is just add all the healing spells to the remaining casters' spell lists. A mage in robes doing the healing for the party is the norm for anything not D&D.
I agree with Chris.
If it's a magic world, why are all of your cures double-edged swords? Divine Magic is just magic granted by a Deity, why should non-Divine magic not work just as well?
You can have herbalist and alchemist provide healing potions. This allows you to decide on the amount of natural vs magical you wish to incorporate into you setting.
One thing I have done in my BX mashup is that all PC hit dice are d8's. I treat hit points as easily recovered, they are your cushion before serious wounding occurs. When they run out, players roll on a serious injury table each time damage is taken. The table spans very minor injury to fatal wounds. Serious injuries take time and/or magic to recover from.
Lot's of people talking about the temp hp / real hp thing. Either hp are 0 dead / 1 full strength or you are fighting a death spiral. Why not be proactive?
A healing / alchemical potion is just a Cure Light Wounds diving spell in potion form. There are NO gods, where is your instant healing coming from? What if potions "combat drugs" ONLY gave temp hp for a duration? Requires proactivity, makes surprise more tense, removes the fight's over Clerics phase. Each 8 / 24hr dose builds up -1 WILL save or something?
Example; A mage warps reality forcing a ball of air into a compressed point causing intense friction, encouraging an elemental transference from air to fire. The mage "wills" that point of reality to a fixed spot and relaxes their focus. That is how Fireball works in my world. In this, your old D&D Cleric would "transfer" a prayer of faith for their god granting their prayer / spell. Removing divine magic, where / how do you address transference? "Healers" should be involved, not CLW vending machines. If your answer is; "just use magic", I'm good.
This potion makes your weeklong natural healing only take two days, that's great. That is also useless in the middle of the Underdark when you have a three-day fighting retreat back to the surface. My kind of adventure.
Never liked hp, never liked Clerics resetting the board every fight, became formulaic and boring, removing tenson. Step one, remove divine healing. Step two, find a way to make healers interesting.
Thank you for the constructive input. :D
Erik
Quote from: swzl on February 29, 2024, 09:15:47 AM
You can have herbalist and alchemist provide healing potions. This allows you to decide on the amount of natural vs magical you wish to incorporate into you setting.
One thing I have done in my BX mashup is that all PC hit dice are d8's. I treat hit points as easily recovered, they are your cushion before serious wounding occurs. When they run out, players roll on a serious injury table each time damage is taken. The table spans very minor injury to fatal wounds. Serious injuries take time and/or magic to recover from.
"There are NO gods, where is your instant healing coming from?"
Where is your fireball, your invisibility, your fly, your polymorph, your teleport coming from? Healing spells would come from the same place.
The idea that healing magic only comes from gods is a 100% D&D-ism that has ZERO basis in broader myth, legend or fiction. It was a pure game conceit made for mechanical reasons, not anything based on lore. The fact that people think it's somehow accurate to real myths and legends and even to broader fantasy is just sad.
Seriously, read/watch some fantasy that isn't a D&D tie-in.
Other options: Make actual damage & actual healing more rare. Turn armor/dodging into an ablative defense, rather than a pass/fail check.
Great minds think alike, I have that mechanic worked out, however the tank / meat head will get hurt and how do you maintain tension long term?
Perhaps I should broaden my thought.
If the Cleric / Caster just "Magics" healing you're checking a box, cntl+S Save game. All the tension is gone. 5E made this much worse. Or the healer is move, heal, done, each turn, tension is gone. Tension requires risk and one thing DCC did right, magic is never risk free. The Fighter risks hits and Poison and Grapple, the Wizard is a glass cannon with no armor or hits, bad Saves, deal it out can't take it, tension. The D&D Cleric breaks tension, I want to fix the healer role. Giving a Fighter a reset button in a game with zero slippery slope wounds is lame.
No, you can't play a Troll.
Quote from: Zelen on March 02, 2024, 02:17:21 PM
Other options: Make actual damage & actual healing more rare. Turn armor/dodging into an ablative defense, rather than a pass/fail check.
Gamma World 4e did something interesting. You either died in combat or you healed up after a short rest. Was it realistic? Nope, but how many RPGs are?
The result in gameplay was very good. Combat was dangerous, but healing magic wasn't a concern since HP reset to full for those who survive.
If you want Wounds, that's easy. Anyone who goes under half HP suffers a Wound that has an actual game effect like leg wounds that slow you down, arm wound so you suffer damage penalty, head wound so you're dizzy, etc. And then maybe there's rare magic that heals Wounds or they require long rests to heal.
But as others said, there's no reason for healing magic to be divine. That's a D&D thing. Tunnels & Trolls, released in 1975, only had Warriors & Wizards so all healing came from arcane magic.
Outside of D&D, non-divine healing magic is normal. They have it in Harry Potter.
Quigong spiritualism isn't based on divinity but by using one's own lifeforce to heal others. If you want something with consequences, you could make it so that in order to heal another person you have to take lifeforce from surrounding organisms.