Ok, so, what are the popular genres in gaming? What are the popular genres outside of gaming? How much do they overlap?
In gaming we have:
Fantasy, easily the number one, also sells well in print albeit to a rather dedicated audience with little crossover appeal to other audiences. Fares poorly in movies and tv (excepting LotR really).
Supers, also immensely popular in comics, fares well in movies including with mainstream audiences.
SF, fares ok with gaming but tends not to prosper, sells well in print thoguh again to a dedicated audience with limited crossover appeal. SF movies do ok, but not spectacularly.
Horror, possibly the number two in gaming, also sells very well in cinema and tv, though horror literature is basically dead in the water. Still, significant crossover appeal to the mainstream markets.
Mecha, surprisingly popular with gaming, in other media it's basically cartoons. Not at all popular with the mainstream, who likely don't even know of it.
I'm sure there are others, but I think I'm already getting to the majority of gaming with the above.
Outside of gaming, major genres that strike me are:
Crime, crime novels and movies are huge, little represented in gaming. Crime is also big on tv, and I distinguish it here from police procedurals which focus more on the police and less on the crime itself.
Police procedurals, huge on television, little represented in gaming.
RomComs, huge in the movies and romance novels sell big time, though like sf to a dedicated audience, little represented in gaming.
Action, big in the movies, sell well in novel form, reasonably represented in gaming but normally as part of another genre.
Medical dramas, big on tv, pretty much absent from gaming.
Sitcoms, huge on tv and similar structures are big on film, little represented in gaming.
Literary drama, big in literature obviously, also does well in movies, tends to focus on issues of character, personal issues and dramatic (but generally not violent) conflict, barely represented in gaming.
No doubt I'm missing many.
Anyway, the point is the overlap between popular gaming geners and popular genres in other media is very small, basically gaming is a subset of the sf/fantasy fandom and has limited appeal to fans of other media. Whether that is a historical accident or something intrinsic to the medium I don't think is entirely clear.
Oh, as for pulp, it's actually not nearly as successful as people think. Movies-wise it can do ok, though not that many are made, but in gaming it tends not to sell.
Quote from: BalbinusAnyway, the point is the overlap between popular gaming geners and popular genres in other media is very small, basically gaming is a subset of the sf/fantasy fandom and has limited appeal to fans of other media.
One other thing to note is that I once heard the observation, which I think has some truth, that gaming genres that do overlap tend to lag behind their popularity in other media to the point where a genre might be getting into full swing in gaming even as it's fading in the other media (the person used cyberpunk as an example -- it's heyday in gaming was after it was fading in fiction). Similarly, the fantasy boom of the late 1970s in gaming followed the popularity of the source material in the 1960s and early 1970s and hit as science fiction and science fantasy (e.g., Star Wars) were the more dominant genres.
Quote from: John MorrowSimilarly, the fantasy boom of the late 1970s in gaming followed the popularity of the source material in the 1960s and early 1970s and hit as science fiction and science fantasy (e.g., Star Wars) were the more dominant genres.
That's an interesting point. The 80s were a mythic golden age for genre movies, especially in the home video market. Most of the "cult movies" in sci-fi and fantasy seem to come from this general time frame. Certainly sub-genres like sword-and-sorcery- which included the Ator movies, Beastmaster, Conan, Deathstalker, Conquest, Gor, Outlaw of Gor, Red Sonja, Sorceress, Stormquest, Throne of Fire- seemed to be very popular. Is it a mere coincidence that FRPG popularity also spiked around the same time?
It was also around the same time that the post-apocalyptic sub-genre seemed to gain popularity both in other media and RPGs such as Aftermath, Gamma World, The Morrow Project, and etcetera.
The Post-Apocalyptic/Sci-Fi/Fantasy movies were numerous:
Amazon Warrior, The Aftermath (1982), America 3000, Damnation Alley, Desert Warrior (w/ Lou Ferrigno!), Dune Warriors, Empire of Ash, Escape from Safehaven, Genesis II, Land of Doom, Neon City, New Eden, Phoenix the Warrior, The Ravagers (1979), Roller Blade Warriors, She (1985), The Sisterhood, Stryker (1983), Time of the Apes, 2020 Texas Gladiators, Ultimate Warrior, W is War, Warlords, Wheels of Fire, et al.These genres seem to have long since cooled. Then again the correlations between what's popular in other media and the types of RPGs made are still there. Look at all the conpiracy themed RPGs that were published in the vein of the X-Files!
In a way RPGs are really reflective of the pop culture of the time.
Computer games have more in common with RPGs.
Just sayin - games, no cost advantage to using naturalistic sets...
Things like Halo or Final Fantasy (or Metal Gear Solid) are as mainstream as it gets right? Or Mario.
There, strike out fantasy/sci fi and what have you got? World War 2 and football, I think.
So it's a tempting thought, but possibly spurious, given the needs of roleplaying games.
Goddam old media dinosaurs...
Horror novels aren't exactly dead, and neither is survival horror RPG's.
At least, that's from my viewpoint.
Quote from: T-WillardHorror novels aren't exactly dead, and neither is survival horror RPG's.
Very big in computer games...
Quote from: Erik BoielleComputer games have more in common with RPGs.
Which just goes to my point that RPGs are reflective of pop culture. Look at all the movies based on video game properties! How many of those have had P&P RPGs published for them?
Of course it's not just the movies. I believe there've also been RPGs for quite a few popular TV shows. Series like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Gene Roddenburry's Andromeda, Babylon 5, Firefly/Serenity, and (of course) Star Trek.
But would there have been if these series weren't as popular as they were?
Quote from: Kester PelagiusThen again the correlations between what's popular in other media and the types of RPGs made are still there. Look at all the conpiracy themed RPGs that were published in the vein of the X-Files!
Correct, but they followed. They didn't lead. And they remained popular long after the genre had cooled on TV.
Quote from: Kester PelagiusIn a way RPGs are really reflective of the pop culture of the time.
That's probably a decent way of putting it. They
reflect pop culture. More accurately, maybe they are a snapshot of pop culture that can reflect what's currently popular or endure long after it's not.
Quote from: Kester PelagiusWhich just goes to my point that RPGs are reflective of pop culture. Look at all the movies based on video game properties! How many of those have had P&P RPGs published for them?
Video games are a driver - already bigger than movies, video game culture will become the primary shared experience in our society. Certainly among everyone who really matters. WoW is replaceing the golf course as the place to network.
So hush with your talk of soap opera - that is just the opium of housewives waiting for death.
Tabletop RPGs are where genre fiction trends go to die.
Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerTabletop RPGs are where genre fiction trends go to die.
Granted some RPGs take so long to write and get published that it seems that way, but is that really indicative of trends in Tabletop RPGs?
Quote from: John Morrow(the person used cyberpunk as an example -- it's heyday in gaming was after it was fading in fiction).
The most glaring example is Goth, as in pop music. It was born in the early 80s, died of natural cause half a decade later... and then, kablooey, it's 1990, and Vampire happens.
Quote from: Kester PelagiusGranted some RPGs take so long to write and get published that it seems that way, but is that really indicative of trends in Tabletop RPGs?
Yes, it is. Tabletop RPG design, in terms of setting and content, is reactionary in its essence. People somewhere say "This is cool! I'd love to play this as an RPG!" and they make a game out of it. As this often occurs as a reaction to film or comics, both of which are themselves intermediary steps in the evolution of a genre fiction trend (novels and short prose are originators, as usual), tabletop RPGs are often two or more iterations away from the origination of a trend.
Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerYes, it is. Tabletop RPG design, in terms of setting and content, is reactionary in its essence. People somewhere say "This is cool! I'd love to play this as an RPG!" and they make a game out of it. As this often occurs as a reaction to film or comics, both of which are themselves intermediary steps in the evolution of a genre fiction trend (novels and short prose are originators, as usual), tabletop RPGs are often two or more iterations away from the origination of a trend.
I see what're you saying. It's much like novels and short fiction in magazines. By the time most get published the initial trend that inspired the author may have past but it's that initial trend that's the point. Of course the really popular trends, especially in RPGs, tend to see many publications within similar genres. Thus, while the initial trend may have past, these may spark a new trend in the RPG market.
But trends tend to be cyclical. They don't really die so much as adapt and change to the times. Just look at the old pulps and scientifiction, which evolved into science-fiction, just as the old "Planet Stories" evolved into "Space Opera". Just as the RPG market has swrung from dice to diceless games and back again the genres that are popular will likewise cycle with the times, won't they?
Maybe genre material becomes RPG fodder when it is distilled into "cult". That means it may be overlooked upon initial appearance, and reappears by the time the people into niche stuff recognise it. There is a huge overlap between people into "indie" entertainment (cult films, comic books/graphic novels, whatever) and people into gaming. May be because of a similar mindset.
Quote from: BalbinusOk, so, what are the popular genres in gaming? What are the popular genres outside of gaming? How much do they overlap?
I think that gaming -- as a media -- affects what works and is popular and what doesn't.
Unlike movies, books, and most other artforms, gaming is very improvisational and generally doesn't permit re-writing. This means that genres that rely on coordination (lots of comedy and much crime-fiction) between characters and between characters and the world are problematic.
Gaming is also limited by the participant's understanding of technical subject matter. Medical and police dramas would be a lot less interesting if instead of seeing something that kind of looked legit, you got obvious gobbledy gook and dice rolls.
To be clear: people game out stuff they have no idea about *all the time* -- but procedurals (medical or police) are *interesting* (in part) because they provide a glimpse into those worlds.
A medical drama run by a doctor, or a cop game run by a cop might be able to do that... but since most groups don't have those things, I think they're not likely to be wide-spread successful.
Likewise, watching "House" (an American medical drama that's not terribly realistic in many ways) is interesting because the characters are brilliant. If that was simulated with dice rolls or some other pure mechanic ("I rolled a six. I cure him with some magnificent diagnosis.") a lot of the interest would be removed.
Finally, despite what we hear from some quarters, gaming isn't mostly-railroaded so fiction genres with serious conventions that must-be-obeyed (much romance) don't tend to work so well.
Cheers,
-E.