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Author Topic: For the couple of you that don't normally read ENWorld's news, yet are interested D&D  (Read 1311 times)

blakkie

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A rumour from Eric Noah on Thursday the 3rd has D&D 4e already being worked on and that it continues heading in the direction 3.5 did, more mini-centric.  Because Magic cards and minis are the only thing making WotC money.  Included in the rumour is WotC selling off all RPG products!

EDIT: Note that it has sort of unoffically and anonomously been called way of the mark, for whatever that is worth, and generally called into disrepute. Such is the way of rumours.  I personally can't see how they could at this point sell off D&D RPG and still keep the minis going, or even find a buyer for it that would pony up the cash.  Not even licensing the RPG out, like Warhammer does with WH FRGP to GR, seems feasible....yet.
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RPGPundit

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For those interested, a whole run-through of the events, and both the original announcement, my prediction of its falsehood, and my subsequent vindication when Noah recanted, are posted on my Blog entry for yesterday (aug 4).

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Quote from: RPGPundit
For those interested, a whole run-through of the events, and both the original announcement, my prediction of its falsehood, and my subsequent vindication when Noah recanted, are posted on my Blog entry for yesterday (aug 4).

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A little harsh there yes / no?

blakkie

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A little harsh there yes / no?

You are unfamiliar with RPGPundit yes / no? :heh: :mischief:
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Harsh? How so?
Eric Noah DID publically recant, taking back his earlier wild claims about 4e D&D, and repudiating the validity of his earlier "source": He even went so far as to promise never to do it again ("I'm out of the 4e rumour business for good"; to paraphrase).

So I don't really see how I'm being harsh by simply summarizing things that actually happened? Or do you mean that you think I'm harsh in my assessment of the kind of people that jump like lemmings aboard the bandwagon of the wildest possible speculations of 4e rumours just for the cheap thrill of panicking over nothing or to already put down a game they hate? ("OMG I heard a rumour that 4e will be coming out next tuesday/all the character classes will be sold seperately/You'll have to buy M:TG cards for the spells/its being written by a tranvestite monkey circus clown/ See? This sourceless mindless rumour about 4e obviously PROVES that D&D 3.5 is the suxxors!!!1!!")

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blakkie

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Quote from: RPGPundit
Harsh? How so?
Eric Noah DID publically recant, taking back his earlier wild claims about 4e D&D, and repudiating the validity of his earlier "source": He even went so far as to promise never to do it again ("I'm out of the 4e rumour business for good"; to paraphrase).

Harsh in your summation and characterization of all of Eric Noah's posts on the subject.  He was pretty upfront about how what he had posted in a thread (not to the news) could have been a misunderstanding somewhere coming down the pipe, and how parts seemed surprising/unlikely to him (the parts you really drill on).  Even your paraphrase is a bit off, especially taking into consideration his further elaboration on it.

As for the rest of you essay, I wouldn't be surprised if right now D&D print is floating in or near the break even point.  They haven't really been shipping a high ratio of compelling items, and that's where the money is. Publishing for meaningful profit is ultimately a hit driven market.

Interestingly Monte Cook's assessment of what happened with 3.5, the link to the full text of which is now being linked on the ENWorld front page, mostly rings true with me. I was an early adopter, bought and started playing the day that the first shipment made it into the local FLGS. That's about the time I and the rest of my group mostly stopped buying books.  A few in the group have purchased a couple books since then, but I haven't bought a one.

Not out of spite or anything, because a guy's gotta make a living and trying to sell me things is one way to do that.  But I think they tried to force the situation too hard and I just broke with the program.  I still play D&D, I even play 3.5 sporatically as of recently. Though that might change with that group. I just haven't bought any of the books myself and don't intend to.

As well I do suspect that they want to try tune 4e to further tap into that collectables revenue stream. I think adding Stunt cards that are handed out as rewards in the game would be an interesting idea.  However I'm not sure they'll get me back. I've seen gaming past D&D and I'm not sure I'm that motivated to go back.  Time will tell I guess. I doubt that whatever they come up with will be bad, but I also don't forsee anything they come up with as compelling me to fork over my cash for. *shrug*

I also have this idea that tapping more into a collectable stream will encourage them to keep an SRD for 4e.  Because then they have an opportunity, though a bit tricky, to arrange it so others do the dirty work of publishing those low margin books and keep their margins higher, with the bonus of forcing the matter again wedging out more customers and seriously fracturing the D&D player base but instead pulling along 3e and 3.5 players. Win-win I think?  Just a thought though.


EDIT Besides, I found it all an interesting discusion. I treated it all round as a rumour, but it was a nice bring up to speed thread because like I said I've fallen somewhat out of the D&D loop due to waning interest.  Now if you'll excuse me I have my Saturday night non-D&D game session to go to. ;)
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ColonelHardisson

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Quote from: RPGPundit
Harsh? How so?
Eric Noah DID publically recant, taking back his earlier wild claims about 4e D&D, and repudiating the validity of his earlier "source": He even went so far as to promise never to do it again ("I'm out of the 4e rumour business for good"; to paraphrase).


"[E]arlier wild claims about 4e." What hyperbolizing bullshit. Those claims seemed "wild" to you? How are they out of line with any of what we've seen so far?

Why is it such a stretch to believe that WotC would try to more closely integrate their very successful D&D minis with the RPG? Hell, that makes nothing but sense. As I've said elsewhere, I doubt that such an integration would be as drastic as others seem to think - I figure it'd be more along the lines of featuring the minis in the core rulebooks when providing examples of combat or what have you, or providing a "starter set" of minis with the initial buy-in to the game.

Why is it a stretch the believe that WotC would be in the process of developing 4e? Signs are there: the new statblock format and the new format for monster entries in Monster Manual IV, the "delve" format for adventures discussed on WotC's site, WotC's site also featuring Mike Mearl's recent articles developing and revamping classic monsters, the extensive "polymorph" retooling on WotC's site which affects how polymorph and related spells are adjudicated across the entirety of the game...these are the most important developments for the game since the release of 3.5. Start adding them up, and they show a revamp of the game about as extensive as that between 3.0 and 3.5.

And that's an important point. I also doubt any prospective 4th edition of D&D will be a drastic redo of the game. I believe it'll be as different as 3.5 was from 3.0. 4th edition, when it comes, will likely be more a matter of putting all the recent developments into the official rules (which the "polymorph" stuff is), which would necessitate the publishing of new books. Just my own speculation, but based only on what I, as fan, have actually seen happen so far.

Besides all that, if you actually had ever paid attention to Eric and his style over the years, you'd know he's been careful to not make any "wild" claims or shoot off at the mouth for no reason, or ever act as a shill for WotC. The way you characterize him shows a profound ignorance of the guy, which colors any attempt you make to somehow "refute" what he says.
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4e definitely has an Old School feel. If you disagree, cool. I won't throw any hyperbole out to prove the point.

ergeheilalt

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Quote from: ColonelHardisson
Besides all that, if you actually had ever paid attention to Eric and his style over the years, you'd know he's been careful to not make any "wild" claims or shoot off at the mouth for no reason, or ever act as a shill for WotC. The way you characterize him shows a profound ignorance of the guy, which colors any attempt you make to somehow "refute" what he says.

What? You expected more from a guy whose sole excuse for living is being an asshole?
 

blakkie

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Quote from: ColonelHardisson
I believe it'll be as different as 3.5 was from 3.0. 4th edition, when it comes, will likely be more a matter of putting all the recent developments into the official rules (which the "polymorph" stuff is), which would necessitate the publishing of new books. Just my own speculation, but based only on what I, as fan, have actually seen happen so far.

I expect it to go further than that, or they are likely not to get that much migration to 4e. I don't expect nearly as much as the 2e to 3e blow-it-up change though, because 3e still mostly functions in D&D's gaming role.  They might do a major rework of a subsystem though, like Skills, to help the system cover some more ground.

As well as reworking the book heiarchy to even further support serialization of content and in the area of Monsters/NPCs to provide stronger miniatures tie-ins.

There are also some things in the rules that could use tuning to help the social dynamics of groups. Especially the "DM is God" aspect.  Those, I suspect, could cause the most controversy. But ultimately would be good for people playing D&D and games in general.

P.S. I post as Sullivan on ENWorld. A long time ago I lost my 'blakkie' account password (assuming 'blakkie' made it through all the migrations of the board, I'm not sure about that) and it appears it was linked to an email account I nolonger have. :(
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blakkie

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Quote from: ergeheilalt
What? You expected more from a guy whose sole excuse for living is being an asshole?

Another excellent example of being harsh!

P.S.  I personally had hoped for a smidgen more accuracy. :bow: I think he forget when he posted here questioning about the harshness that a lot of people here know Eric Noah, at a minimum in internet persona, from some time back. But even that aside I don't get what he got from the contents of that thread.
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ergeheilalt

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Quote from: blakkie
Another excellent example of being harsh!


I was addressing RPGPundit not Eric. Eric is an okay guy, even if he is a little limp.
 

RPGPundit

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Quote from: ColonelHardisson

(snipped: a great deal of speculative nonsense)
Besides all that, if you actually had ever paid attention to Eric and his style over the years, you'd know he's been careful to not make any "wild" claims or shoot off at the mouth for no reason, or ever act as a shill for WotC. The way you characterize him shows a profound ignorance of the guy, which colors any attempt you make to somehow "refute" what he says.


Well, in this case, he shot off at the mouth from an unreliable source.
HE HIMSELF HAS ADMITTED THIS AND RECANTED.
Why can't you?
I mean fuck, if the selfsame guy acknowledges that his earlier statement is bullshit, are you really going to try to keep standing by it?

If Eric Noah is such a stand-up guy, then take him at his fucking word and recognize that he was completely wrong in his claims about 4e, like he has.

RPGPundit
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you've played 'medieval fantasy' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

blakkie

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Quote from: RPGPundit
Well, in this case, he shot off at the mouth from an unreliable source.

On the other hand you are shooting off your mouth with a reliable source. The problem for you is that we can read, and see that you are misrepresenting what was actually said.  Then you go on to try tie it into some wierd conspiracy theory that I'm not sure has any sort of real, muchless reliable source.


@ergeheilalt:  I am aware of the context. :)
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If Eric Noah is such a stand-up guy, then take him at his fucking word and recognize that he was completely wrong in his claims about 4e, like he has.

RPGPundit
Eric Noah can be and has been as big a fuck and far from a stand-up guy as possible, and the Col knows that as well.  It's not the first time he's had bad info and while in the beginning you could take his news as written, over the years not so much.

However, more push on the mini's for 4.0, oh you betcha.
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