Your version sounds very interesting. Looking forward to reading more. Even if I don't use the system you've come up with, the setting alone has possibilities...

Regards,
David R

Quote from: daniel_ream;500034Game writers should be stating their themes up front.  This would also help break the hobby of the insistence that all settings must be perfectly internally consistent clockwork model universes.

See, and I think that when designing a setting writers should state their themes so they can develop a  Mythos that links together all their tropes and other elements in a unified whole. It explains the present of the setting in terms of a history and the "laws of existence" that gave rise to that history, ensuring they form a tight fit.

In Torg, there's a built in excuse for seemingly non-sensical occurrences: World Laws. Even with those, I want my setting to make sense.

I believe settings should be internally consistent. There ought to be reasons for why things happened, even if it's only "A Wizard Did It." And if a Wizard did it, I want to know which one, and why.

I may be misunderstanding you, but at this point I'll disagree. The point of explicitly identifying themes is to make an internally consistent cosm built around those themes, not to be able to ignore causality when building a setting.

(Unless there is something in the setting itself that undermines causality. The God of Existence, who changes reality at will. And even that should be explained by the mythos. Who is this god? Where did it come from? Why does it screw with people? And so so forth.)

Quote from: Daddy Warpig;500001Because I want to play Torg. And not the old Torg I've moved past, but the new Torg I'm moving towards. I want to play it with Sino Tech and Techno-Fantasy Tharkold and a Steampulp reality and (maybe) a Super-Punk cosm.

I want to play it using the 5-Stage campaign model where the players start out as scrubs, become known as heroes, get to lead prominent organizations (like the Delphi Council or Project Omen), unify the planet, and eventually face off against the Torg.

In some games, players get help from the Rauru Block or the Delphi Council. In this game, they can become the leaders of the organization, and send help to other SK's around the globe. (Shades of Stolze's Reign and the Nippon Tech Business rules, but done right.)

I want to have players become global heroes who help organize other Storm Knights. Who lead the War. They earn their way to that position, then use that position to fight the War.

I want to see my players take charge of the War and choose which realms to attack and when. Make their own strategy. Not some WEG-imposed metaplot, but a "metaplot" chosen by the players, as the players see fit.

I want to run that campaign. I want to run Torg, and the only way to get there is by finishing what I've started.


(A joke, a joke. )

In your description up there I saw very little about the... lets call it the Intellectual Property of Torg that you actually needed to fulfill you desires.  A reality war? Nope, don't need Torg to do that.  Campaign structure where players actually take charge of organizations and run the war? Nope, don't need Torg for that. Hell, what you really need there is a fucking GM who gets that players don't want to be stuck being peons, really. Rules are nice too, but not hard to find/make up (Hell, I could do it in GURPS, and I've never heard anyone say GURPS's strong suit was that it let players take charge of large organizations and become planetary rulers...)

A steampunk reality? Girl Genius. A Cyberpunk Theocracy? Cyberpunk 2020 with the serial numbers filed off...

THe point it you mention maybe three elements by name that are exclusively the domain of Torg. Tharkold, which unless you are really REALLY sold on that name ( I never was), is easily replicated under a new name. DItto Sino Tech.

What you are wedded to really just seems to be names. I mean, I get it. I like fucking Jedi Knights, and trying to write a space opera with Jedi Knight clones (Margaret Weis I'm looking at you!) just doesn't hit the same sweet spot.

I get that.  On the other hand, if I wanted to write a space opera that was like Star Wars, but could put Jedi Knights in the background... well... maybe i"m better served just writing up my own Space Opera Setting, and letting the stupid shit, the cruft, thats accumulated over a bare bones but servicable setting rot on someone elses porch.

And hey, once you've done all that work, you can still say 'this is Torg, bitches' to your players at the house all you want.



As for your quote: If I ever felt the need to unburden myself of unwanted wads of cash, the absolute last way I'd do it is burn it. Hookers and blow top the list, but there are a thousand other ways... including setting up a RPG company... before burning. Not that burning isn't on the list. Delightfully decadent...

Hey, quick question, Mr. "Prolific Poster of Prolonged Posts". (Which, honest to God, I want to read.) How often is it kosher to drop another big post?

I don't want to saturate the board's bandwidth, but on the other hand I'd like to get some real feedback and right now, I'm still doing "up to speed" posts. OTOH, if only for politeness' sake, I'd like to keep my posting frequency in the socially acceptable range.

Any light you could shed would be welcome.

Quote from: Spike;500146In your description up there I saw very little about the... lets call it the Intellectual Property of Torg that you actually needed to fulfill you desires.

What you are wedded to really just seems to be names.

I can totally see why you'd think that. All I can say is that, in the many, many posts I've already made (most on the Torg email List) and notes in my development documents, there's a lot of oTorg that's integral to the setting.

Maybe I could get away with filing off the serial numbers and pretending it isn't Torg, but there isn't anything to gain by that either. Whichever route I go (openly conceding the obvious or trying to pretend it isn't so), I still have to do the work. The time investment is about the same either way.

And heck, if I do go with the "No, really, it isn't Torg. Honest." route, I can just do a search and replace on the document to change all the names. Hey, Hollywood screenwriters do this all the time (Hangover 2: Find "baby", replace "monkey". Replace All.), so can I.

So, you know, I'll keep my options open.

Quote from: Daddy Warpig;499684Back in 2000, the owners of Torg sent around a survey, asking people's opinions on what Torg could be retitled. The suggested names all sucked. My belief is that the game should be titled "Storm Knights". It's an interesting title, and evokes the game's premise (once you know what a Storm Knight is). It also doesn't suck (IMHO).

Since then, "Storm Knights" has been my name for my Torg fan site. It's also the name for the new Torg campaign I'm building. It has variant metaphysics, redesigned cosms, some new cosms, and so forth.

Well, that's helpful.  I loved TORG.  Hated the name.  Like "blog" or "GURPS" it sounds more like a digestive noise than an actual word.

QuoteBecause I've invented a magical meta-system to use for a new Magic Axiom.

Well, Gad, it would be worth it for this reason alone.  Half the reason I picked up the Aysle Worldbook was thinking that if I could figure out the spell design system, I could apply for work as an IRS accountant.

JG

Thanks for the comments and the compliments, James.

Quote from: James Gillen;500184Half the reason I picked up the Aysle Worldbook was thinking that if I could figure out the spell design system, I could apply for work as an IRS accountant.

My current ideas on spellcasting is to do Age of Arcana spells something like Savage Worlds does. A few spells, clearly defined, powered by spell points, not "kill ya mind" damage, with "Manifestations" (i.e. trappings) being added for flavor. 1 cast skill, 1 lore skill to learn the spells and that's it.

Simple, direct, suits the fast-paced play of "Storm Knights".

Quote from: James Gillen;500184Well, Gad, it would be worth it for this reason alone.

Well, the Ages of Magic isn't a spellcasting system, its a "magic meta-system", a conceptual framework to arrange all (or nearly all) spellcasting systems in an ordered progression from least advanced to most advanced. Let me explain.

Like GURPS or Traveller had a Tech rating, Torg had axioms (as you probably know). Beginning with Stone Age then to modern tech and on to ultra-tech, the Tech Axiom ran from 0-33. Then there were analogous ratings for Magic (also 0-33). And Spirit (religion and gods). And Social (social structures, scholarship, science).

(To these, I've added Psi. I've also streamlined all 5 down to 0-21. That's neither here nor there.)

All Axioms serve the same purpose: to rate developments from "primitive" to "mature" to "Oh, my God!"

The Ages of Magic is a way of classifying nearly any extant magic system according to their characteristics, and placing them on the Magic axiom chart.

D&D magic? Prime Age of Arcana system, roughly axiom 13 on my scale.
Shadowrun? Its flexible spells make it an Age of Mastery system, axiom 15.
Brandon Sanderson's books? Elantris is Age of Arcana, most of the rest are various flavors of Age of Mastery (usually being innate talents with flexible range and damage, rather than learned skills and rigid spells).

So it's not a magic rule system, it's a way of categorizing magic systems according to a coherent framework. Nearly any system can be thus classified.

(Caveats and corner cases and exceptions are noted, and expected. This is Fantasy, after all, and not computer programming.)

So far as I have ever been able to discover, this kind of framework is not only unique in its details, but utterly unique in its conception.

After many years of research in academic texts on magic, RPG systems, and fiction, I've never found anything like it. I've never found signs anyone's ever attempted it. Ever. It seems to be the one truly unique thing I've ever made.

(So yeah, I'm a bit proud and slightly boastful. Apologies.)

So, if you were looking for a simplified spellcasting system, I've got ya covered. And if you were looking for a revolutionary way to organize magic spellcasting systems, I've got that too.

You know, if that's what you were looking for...

EDIT: I am self-aware enough to realize that the above claims may have made me seem like an ignorant or arrogant dillhole, one of those guys who claims his new RPG will Revolutionize Everything and is The Best Evar!!!! (When actually, it's derivative and humdrum.)

But I'm not talking about Destiny or Storm Knights as a whole, just the Ages of Magic framework. And what I said is, to the best of my knowledge, actually true. The Ages of Magic is unique. It's never been done.

It's rare you get to make something genuinely innovative. Going beyond that and being able to make something that is actually unique, in all of human history... Virtually no one gets to do that, ever. If you get to, even once, you want to relish it whenever you can.

So, if you can see your way to excusing my self-congratulatory tone, I'd appreciate it. Rest assured, I'm not going to be bragging about the Ages all the time. Or probably ever again.

There's too many other things to discuss, anyway, right?

As far as I know the only non-spam posting habit that anyone complains about 'round these parts is the Batslap pic.

everything else is fair game.

ok jasyn,
        ive made the jump across from jita to here. lets see what you can do with your new rules system!

                 cheers, mark.

Quote from: crabshtick;500227cheers, mark.

Welcome, I'm new here myself. Good to see at least one familiar face.

Quote from: James Gillen;500184Well, that's helpful.  I loved TORG.  Hated the name.  Like "blog" or "GURPS" it sounds more like a digestive noise than an actual word.

TORG stands for "That Other Roleplaying Game" and was the way WEG traditionally referred to AD&D (usually with a TM attached) as a tongue in cheek reference to TSR trademarking any "unique" term in their RPGs they could and then suing people for using them.  It found its way into an actual published RPG or two (1st ed Ghostbusters RPG), and was their internal code name for the TORG rpg.  Like GURPS ("Great Unnamed Roleplaying System") and Fantasy Hero, the internal codename became the real name because nobody could think of a better one.

I'd like to see good base spells, one of the problems with Savage Worlds is it didn't take into account the breadth of magic. Shapeshifting, knowledge gaining, manipulation, attack, defense, movement, control, summoning and so on type effects are limited, and you need quite a few pieces to make a magic framework function well.

Quote from: Silverlion;500372I'd like to see good base spells, one of the problems with Savage Worlds is it didn't take into account the breadth of magic. Shapeshifting, knowledge gaining, manipulation, attack, defense, movement, control, summoning and so on type effects are limited, and you need quite a few pieces to make a magic framework function well.

For my purposes, I collected a "spell database" of (literally) thousands of spell effects, culled from fiction and RPG's.

For example, Co-Dimensionality, a spell used in Perdido Street Station to allow the dimensional space of one room in New Crobuzon to be dimensionally united with a room in Hell.

Not all of these are necessary or useful. Certainly, not all of these will be in the playtest alpha kit.

But I am aware that such a breadth of spell options exist, and if I so chose, I can add them to the game.

Quote from: daniel_ream;500257TORG stands for "That Other Roleplaying Game" and was the way WEG traditionally referred to AD&D (usually with a TM attached) as a tongue in cheek reference to TSR trademarking any "unique" term in their RPGs they could and then suing people for using them.  It found its way into an actual published RPG or two (1st ed Ghostbusters RPG), and was their internal code name for the TORG rpg.  Like GURPS ("Great Unnamed Roleplaying System") and Fantasy Hero, the internal codename became the real name because nobody could think of a better one.

And now you know...
The rest of-
The story.