Quote from: Silverlion;390421Makes sense Randall. I appreciate it. I'm trying to keep some of the simplicity of Basic/Cyclopedia D&D while still giving everyone some niche abilities that go beyond a fighters "hit it with a stick better/faster.."

Still there is an elegant simplicity in that, and the Heroism points let them do a lot more. So I'm not sure if I should keep all or most of the special abilities.
It's tough because I like what I have, but is that too far removed from D&D in terms of play?

The question is, does it need to be more like D&D? Remember, you're not writing a remake - You're writing an alternate universe version.

Quote from: Silverlion;390421It's tough because I like what I have, but is that too far removed from D&D in terms of play?

I don't think so. Of course, I started playing when what "D&D was" could be -- and generally was -- very different from group to group. Variations, even major variations, on the rules were the norm. While there are a lot of "rules purists" among the Internet Old School crowd today, rules purists were few and far between back in the 1970s.

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;390426The question is, does it need to be more like D&D? Remember, you're not writing a remake - You're writing an alternate universe version.

Very true, which is why I've been defending my designs to my "negative" side.

I think it will work out, I'm trying to expand play a bit through 20 levels with LOTS of fun stuff every so often. To keep players happy with new shiny stuff, but without making it so game breaking or even "rules exceptions."

I have been thinking about Dungeon vs. Derelict ecology.

When we enter a dungeon, there are no immediate concerns for Air or Gravity.   In a derelict, why would there be Air or Gravity?  Don't most of the monsters need both of these?   How many will not?

What happens to a Delver who gets damaged in a vacuum?   Does all armor simply auto-seal?  

Certainly, rules for explosive decompression, dealing with vacuum and suffocation will be important.  

If the players come upon a ship with oxygen, I can see them just wanting to blow the life support system, wait for the monsters to die and then just go looting.  How can you minimize the usefulness of this tactic?    The "crystal ball + teleport" tactic is a bane of high level D20 and maybe even easier here.

Certainly critters like Augs can operate ship machinery and keep the life support going.  Of course, if they can do that, why haven't they gotten the engines and guns online too?   That would be a working ship, not a derelict.

I can see many derelicts shutting down and waiting until they were boarded or received a signal of some sort before turning their power back on, initiating life support and defrosting their cold sleeps.    Certainly, an Aug clan could do that as they float through the void.

And since DD isn't hard science, you can answer some of these questions with "High Tech Magic" as long as its defined in the system/setting stuff.

Quote from: Spinachcat;392457I have been thinking about Dungeon vs. Derelict ecology.

When we enter a dungeon, there are no immediate concerns for Air or Gravity.   In a derelict, why would there be Air or Gravity?  Don't most of the monsters need both of these?   How many will not?

What happens to a Delver who gets damaged in a vacuum?   Does all armor simply auto-seal?  

Certainly, rules for explosive decompression, dealing with vacuum and suffocation will be important.  

If the players come upon a ship with oxygen, I can see them just wanting to blow the life support system, wait for the monsters to die and then just go looting.  How can you minimize the usefulness of this tactic?    The "crystal ball + teleport" tactic is a bane of high level D20 and maybe even easier here.

Certainly critters like Augs can operate ship machinery and keep the life support going.  Of course, if they can do that, why haven't they gotten the engines and guns online too?   That would be a working ship, not a derelict.

I can see many derelicts shutting down and waiting until they were boarded or received a signal of some sort before turning their power back on, initiating life support and defrosting their cold sleeps.    Certainly, an Aug clan could do that as they float through the void.

And since DD isn't hard science, you can answer some of these questions with "High Tech Magic" as long as its defined in the system/setting stuff.

Good ideas, I've been working on those concepts in my head. I know some suits auto seal, but not all. I also imagined that part of the issues with blowing life support means you have to know where it is--what it does--and how to work it--there is no guarantee with Derelicts being designed clearly enough to know. Alien ideas, Ancients, and more, all confound the easy understanding. An engineer with a map, and a powered system/scanners might figure it out. Yet that's going to be a tough task, unless its just another Archive ship!

I am currently taking a two week break from messing with it--while I get the final aspects of High Valor done (print book sent to me, e-file for e-sales set up--at least when I have it. I also just need a break to read, play games, and not worry about "where/what/how"

Quote from: Silverlion;390226Split Heroism Points into Health and Heroism? That way PC's won't need to spend health to be lucky? A re-occurring issue more than one playtester has had and I've resisted changing.

Obviously the playtesters are the problem!  

I like the combo of Health/Luck in your HP.  I like the inherent choices and I like the idea of how the Medic restores your ability pool.  And its also minimizes the accounting.

That's always been the problem with Hit Points - they are this combo abstraction and nobody knows how much is your luck, how much is health and what exactly happens when a sword does 6 damage.   Does luck bleed?

What about this?  Let the player split them into Health and Heroism on their own.  Make the minimum in each pile be 1 point per level.  Thus if I have a 30 HP pool at 5th level, I could do 25/5 as a minimum and choose from there if I want to trade Health for Heroism.

But how does Heroism regen is separated from Health?

Quote from: Silverlion;390226Pilots:
1: Inspiring Speech: Can give back team 1d10 HP with short rousing speech, and +2 to actions

Maybe as a high level "Captain Kirk" power, but at low-med levels, the pilot should just be focussed on ship movement, ship protection and space combat.   Though "Pull Together" is a good mid-level "Away Team Leader" power.

Quote from: Silverlion;390226Some consistent problems I have is I'm really not fond of limiting the Psychic to one path of powers. I always hate that in RPG's (Trinity) because Psychics seem to be undervalued then, and I like them, which is a good reason to let them use any path but only up to their Tier.

What if Psychics can use their specialty as (Level + Will = Max Tier) and out-of-specialty powers as (Level = Max Tier)?  

So a 1st level, I could reach Tier 3 in my specialty and have access to all Tier 1 abilities.   That would be cool.  

Or go the Palladium route.  If you had the PPE, you could cast any spell you knew.  Back in 1983, it was revolutionary for 1st level mages to be throwing down anything bigger than Sleep.  

Thus you could have Espers get a +2 bonus with activing powers within their specialty, but they can attempt anything...but you Tier things just for reference so players know in general which powers are realistic to make happen at what level.

Quote from: Silverlion;390226I'm torn between this being a near-clone, and making it from the ground up what would have been written with different inspirations. They don't have to conflict, but in my version they seem too.

If you go off the Vancian reservation, you're off the near-clone wagon for many people.   So don't worry about that as much as what you feel is most fun when playing an Esper.

I am actually happy to have Espers cast paying HP.  It works fine in M74 clone.  I think that's the one where casters spend HP equal to the spell level.  

Quote from: Silverlion;390421So I'm not sure if I should keep all or most of the special abilities.  It's tough because I like what I have, but is that too far removed from D&D in terms of play?

I like the list.   I am unsure about Smite because I don't like activating criticals.  If I roll a 20, I want a critical.  

Quote from: RandallS;390447While there are a lot of "rules purists" among the Internet Old School crowd today, rules purists were few and far between back in the 1970s.

Very true.

You know. I've been stuck since I came off a break to recharge my brain, I think I'll tackle it again next week, but thank you Spinachcat for a very good post and some ideas.

Hi Silverlion!
Late to the party (I only just noticed the thread just then), but I've dl'd the June version and will have a look.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;397664Hi Silverlion!
Late to the party (I only just noticed the thread just then), but I've dl'd the June version and will have a look.

Thanks, pardon the mess, it is a rough draft so to speak.

Sorry it took so long to get back. Read over and then read through the thread.

I really like it as a setting, and it looks like a lot of fun. I liked the random-roll aspect of PC generation (But then, I'm a Gamma World fan). Tables could probably be simplified fairly easily down to just d10 if you wanted since you mostly work in 10% increments anyway - usually its roll twice on 91-95 and roll thrice on 96-00, which could just be roll 2-3 times (d2+1) on a roll of 10. Few minor typos and things (to be expected):  the main one to watch for is that (if I remember correctly) a possessive of a word ending in s should take an apostrophe i.e. "the races' technology"

The base 0 attribute system is quite workable (as seen in Talislanta and True 20/Mutants & Masterminds), the main drawback IMHO being how it handles ability damage.  Note +1 each 4 levels = +2 points on the d20 system normal scale; just for comparison, note True20 went to +1 mod every 6 levels.

I like the class features. I note you'd compressed Scientist and Engineer into one archetype (every Scotty is also a Spock), though that's probably a defensible decision give their fairly narrow roles. If you wanted to expand Medic role, I'd suggest you could add more general xenobiology related skills (if they can use medicine on any Delver race, they have to have a fair to good grasp on how aliens are put together and where their vital points are).

Looked like each class has a fairly well defined niche, but wondering how this plays out in practice - do characters tend to take turns in the limelight, and how badly does the game stop for everyone else when its the Pilot's turn or the Engineer's turn ?? Does the Medic have anything to do if people aren't injured. ? I particularly liked the Engineer, though I wasn't so sure about the higher-level abilities where they get minions - I know its the standard OD&D thing, but can you trade these out if your character has always been a lone wolf with a -3 Cha?

For Equipment: Encumbrance (pg 37) doesn't quite work (Str doesn't affect encumberance limit only Dex ?; and many characters will start with negative Dex). Not sure how much of a problem it'll be when you have a spaceship/vehicles. I thought the energy weapons were pretty cool, though wonder if you'll need primitive weapon stats for when they crash on some planet and savages attack.

I did have a couple of questions  that others have also thought of, too - i.e. how to do multiclassing? And, why aren't the principles of Ancient Tech rediscovered and become 'standard'?
Also, the format with the sidebars didn't quite work in the monsters section, I thought.

Quibbles aside, overall it looks pretty cool.
Cheers,
BSJ.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;398319Sorry it took so long to get back. Read over and then read through the thread.

Quibbles aside, overall it looks pretty cool.
Cheers,
BSJ.

Thanks, I know it needs a lot of work. Strange enough the Engineer and Scientist "combo," has something I've considered at great length. I could always go the AD&D2E route and have the classes be more related.

You'd have:

Warrior Types:
 Soldier
 Scout
 
Buffing Types
 Medic
 Esper

Science types
 Engineer
 Scientist


Of course I want to shove the Medic under science and the Pilot can go a little bit everywhere.


I've been thinking of something totally off kilter, in switching the mechanical concepts from D&D to D6 (Star Wars) though aiming at keeping the intent of play D&D like--all about strange wonder and horror in delving into alien places.

Yet I was wanting a I don't know, crescendo, of play.  That is the concept that as danger grows, and people challenge the unknown they actually get more capable mechanically. Not experience, but that like pulp or action stories they seem a bit unfocused at first, and yet they go from everyman to hero, by pushing themselves to that point.

Lots more work to be done.


Anyone have ideas? What makes for better classes? Pulp super scientists who do everything?

I think the fundamental mechanic will remain with a few tweaks.

I'm going to focus less on special abilities and more on general play with a few special abilities that can be magnified with HP.


Base dice roll mechanic:

2d10+Stat+Skill+Gear Vs D#10+Mods or 10+Stat+Skill+Gear of opposing party.

The D# and vs roll are read like so. Meet the number (partial success) since that has no modifiers or rolls on their side. Beat the number by 5 get full success. Beat by 10 get a Critical Success.

Have you seen the Paleo-Future blog?  Interesting looks at how the future was envisioned in the 1870s and beyond.  Worth a read.
//www.paleofuture.com  

Quote from: Silverlion;403876I'm going to focus less on special abilities and more on general play with a few special abilities that can be magnified with HP.

Did you read J Arcane's Drums of War?  Worth a look.

I do like class abilities and enjoy seeing a character develop deeper in his own niche, but maybe there should be Class Abilities at certain levels and then General Abilities to be picked from at other levels so people can customize their dudes. I do like the HP mechanic.

Of course, if you are harkening back to OD&D again, then maybe the "less is more" concept is good.  I have no idea.  

Also, what do you think of grubman's X-plorers?  
http://greyarea.webs.com/downloads/X-Free.pdf

Quote from: Silverlion;403876The D# and vs roll are read like so. Meet the number (partial success) since that has no modifiers or rolls on their side. Beat the number by 5 get full success. Beat by 10 get a Critical Success.

A Scout shoots an Aug...what happens on a partial vs. full success vs. a critical one?

If a Scout is climbing a wall...does a partial success just take longer to get to the top?

Quote from: Spinachcat;404020Have you seen the Paleo-Future blog?  Interesting looks at how the future was envisioned in the 1870s and beyond.  Worth a read.
//www.paleofuture.com  




Did you read J Arcane's Drums of War?  Worth a look.


Also, what do you think of grubman's X-plorers?  
http://greyarea.webs.com/downloads/X-Free.pdf



A Scout shoots an Aug...what happens on a partial vs. full success vs. a critical one?

If a Scout is climbing a wall...does a partial success just take longer to get to the top?

I like X-plorers, Dave is a friend of mine. Another friend who knew about DD previously got all bent out of shape over X-plorers on my behalf, but we seem to be taking totally opposite poles in development. It's a good game. No default aliens, not much of the "weird" in it though either. Maybe when the Halfling or whoever version comes out will get more of that.

I've not seen Drum's of War either. I like Paleo-Future

Your example:


A Scout shoots an Aug...what happens on a partial vs. full success vs. a critical one?

The Scout gets a partial success and nicks the Aug. The Aug takes half damage.

The Scout gets a full success and does full damage and causes any secondary effects: Ignite/Knockdown/etc.

The Scout gets a critical success, then his goal is achieved. That means regardless of health if his goal is to kill the Aug. It is killed. If it is to wound or run it off--then that happens.

I'm not sure on the exact numbers yet. So that may take a lot of testing.

If a Scout is climbing a wall...does a partial success just take longer to get to the top? [/B]

If the Scout makes a partial success he slips. Loses his grip, and needs to make a new test to regain it. Failure on the new test means he falls. Just like if  he failed on the first test. It does however allow you to get aid, or spend a heroism point, or plan a new path though.

 A full success means he makes that distance easily.

A critical means he does it easily, swiftly, and might be able to guide others up. Aid them as well. (The DM can allow the critical to help the whole party as a temporary +2 or something.) Although, sometimes a critical is the same as a success. Just prettier.

I was playing around with stuff in my head. I think that character creation will be simplified to speed play.

Characters choose race, puts its ability profile into the hexes, then choose profession, and put its ability profile into the other hexes. Then pick three alien traits: 1 gives a +4 bonus in rare circumstances, one gives +2 bonus in more common circumstances, and one gives a +1 to a single ability score.

Then the Delver gets two free +1's for their Ability profile to "tailor" their character and one free talent.

 Some Talents open up all new options, some professions give away talents (and those talents can only be obtained by joining that profession.) Other talents are just a small bonus to their rolls for certain tasks.



Prototype PC sheet.