A thread on ENWorld made me revisit my Jousting rules I wrote for Birthright and update them for D&D 3.5, I'm curious as to what people think.

Edit: Rules updated to correct errors and suggest a reduced use of favour.

Excellent rules for jousting, Bagpuss.

I once saw a set of rules for jousting in an old Dragon magazine. (This was before 2e D&D, I think.) In those rules, a female jouster got a +1 bonus to her Ride checks upon being hit by an opposing lance, to avoid being toppled from her saddle. (Well, they weren't called "Ride checks", back then.) This is because a female has a low center of gravity, at her hips, compared to a male, whose center of gravity is at his shoulders. That was an interesting modifier, I thought.

Quote from: CynosureThis is because a female has a low center of gravity, at her hips, compared to a male, whose center of gravity is at his shoulders. That was an interesting modifier, I thought.

That is fucking idiotic. Yes, women may have slightly lower center of gravity, but a man having his CG at his shoulders? That's just laugh worthy.

Quote from: ergeheilaltThat is fucking idiotic. Yes, women may have slightly lower center of gravity, but a man having his CG at his shoulders? That's just laugh worthy.

Especially since the 40 or 50 pounds of plate armor (which was normally even thicker and heavier for jousting tournaments to prevent accidents) will really screw up your center of gravity.

Quote from: ergeheilaltThat is fucking idiotic. Yes, women may have slightly lower center of gravity, but a man having his CG at his shoulders? That's just laugh worthy.

Don't get all bent out of shape, Brainiac. Okay, so a man's center of gravity isn't at his shoulders. But, typically, a man is indeed more top heavy than a woman. I'm sure you've heard about the trick where a man and a woman, each in turn, stand away from a wall and bend over a chair, with his or her head pressed flat against the wall, and try picking up that chair. Typically, the woman can do it, but the man can't.

Quote from: CyclotronEspecially since the 40 or 50 pounds of plate armor (which was normally even thicker and heavier for jousting tournaments to prevent accidents) will really screw up your center of gravity.

I don't see what that has to do with it, assuming both the male and the female are wearing plate armor.

hey if you are going to bitch about the battle of the sexes in my thread you could at least download and read my rules I can see at least one of you hasn't. :deviousgrin:

Haven't read the rules but if we're talking centre of gravity the short stocky (fat) man wins. Although if we're going all biological on the subject (and i really think we shouldn't) a woman tends to gain weight around the ass and thighs where as an overweight male will gain it around the stomach (the typical beer-belly) so if you're going down the route of women getting a better bonus than men due to their cog being lower, then we've got to go into a check along the lines of
 
(body weight/height) + skill on a horse + ability to sway with blow + determination to stay on horse + accuracy of blow + strength of lance

I've not put in speed of opposed horses cos both riders would be subject to the same relative impact on this score.

Personally i'd keep things simple(r) - each person makes a ride check and gets a bonus to their attack roll based on that score. They roll their attack and if they hit they do damage. Their opponant then makes a (reflex) save/check based on that damage (not necessarily the damage rolled but some kind of incriment). If they pass they stay on: if they fail, they don't.

Then again i'm a simple creature with simple needs and as i said, not read the actual rules yet (it's late over here in england) so all of this may or may not have been taken into consideration

Final comment on the battle of the sexes - yes women may have a slightly lower centre of gravity but the average male is heavier andstronger thus being able to put more force behind their blow, this should at least counteract the big hips

Quote from: dereeHaven't read the rules but if we're talking centre of gravity the short stocky (fat) man wins. Although if we're going all biological on the subject (and i really think we shouldn't) a woman tends to gain weight around the ass and thighs where as an overweight male will gain it around the stomach (the typical beer-belly) so if you're going down the route of women getting a better bonus than men due to their cog being lower, then we've got to go into a check along the lines of
 
(body weight/height) + skill on a horse + ability to sway with blow + determination to stay on horse + accuracy of blow + strength of lance

I've not put in speed of opposed horses cos both riders would be subject to the same relative impact on this score.

Personally i'd keep things simple(r) - each person makes a ride check and gets a bonus to their attack roll based on that score. They roll their attack and if they hit they do damage. Their opponant then makes a (reflex) save/check based on that damage (not necessarily the damage rolled but some kind of incriment). If they pass they stay on: if they fail, they don't.

Then again i'm a simple creature with simple needs and as i said, not read the actual rules yet (it's late over here in england) so all of this may or may not have been taken into consideration

Final comment on the battle of the sexes - yes women may have a slightly lower centre of gravity but the average male is heavier andstronger thus being able to put more force behind their blow, this should at least counteract the big hips

Oh, for fuck's sake! All I wanted was to give women a measly +1 bonus to their Ride checks to remain untoppled, in the saddle, because their center of gravity is typically lower than that of males.

:eyecrazy:

It's a truism in gaming, if you suggest any mechanical modifiers based on gender some gamers will feel the need to stab you in the face and light you on fire.

Quote from: MaddmanIt's a truism in gaming, if you suggest any mechanical modifiers based on gender some gamers will feel the need to stab you in the face and light you on fire.

Hey, I'm all for giving gender based mods.

But after taking more than a year of centroid based engineering classes (Strength of Materials, Vector Statics, Vector Mechanics, and Intermediate Mechanics) the idea that there is a significant difference in the centriod of a man and woman that is going to add up to a lick of shit during jousting is fucking retarded. I stand by my claim.

*edit: Before people jump on my ass, my claim depends on the man and woman being compared have similar weights and heights.

Hmm I wonder if people are downloading my rules just to check what all the fuss is about this gender based mod, then being really disappointed when they don't find one. Well unless you count winning a ladies favour.

Quote from: BagpussHmm I wonder if people are downloading my rules just to check what all the fuss is about this gender based mod, then being really disappointed when they don't find one. Well unless you count winning a ladies favour.

I thought the whole ladies favor thing seemed a bit overly powerful.  A hanky from a hot chippie was worth more than a skill focus in riding if I remember correctly.

Quote from: Xavier LangI thought the whole ladies favor thing seemed a bit overly powerful.  A hanky from a hot chippie was worth more than a skill focus in riding if I remember correctly.

Skill focus Ride gives +3 to a roll.

A favour gives between +1 to +4 (so slightly more if you've already won 3 bouts).

A high favour give between +2 to +8 (much more but again only later on, but then it's much harder to get, you are acting effectively as the queens champion at that point). I agree however it is one of the more radical ideas.

If you wanted to lower the value of them keep them at +1 and +2 and they don't improve after winning a bout, you could of course get rid of them altogether. The reason I made them such a useful bonus was because I wanted to encourage the social side of the tournament.

Quote from: BagpussSkill focus Ride gives +3 to a roll.

A favour gives between +1 to +4 (so slightly more if you've already won 3 bouts).

A high favour give between +2 to +8 (much more but again only later on, but then it's much harder to get, you are acting effectively as the queens champion at that point). I agree however it is one of the more radical ideas.

If you wanted to lower the value of them keep them at +1 and +2 and they don't improve after winning a bout, you could of course get rid of them altogether. The reason I made them such a useful bonus was because I wanted to encourage the social side of the tournament.

I'm curious, why did you think the favor should have such an affect on things?  The idea of a +8 for a high favor seems impossibly high for a non magical token in a game like D&D.