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[d20 Modern Feats] Burst Fire

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Hastur T. Fannon:
I agree with this, except


--- Quote from: Bagpuss ---I allow pistols to be used in melee without provoking Attacks of Opportunity.
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What about during grappling?

Bagpuss:
Opposed grapple role the winner gets to use it, no matter who is holding it. I think that reflects the movie genre.

FraserRonald:

--- Quote from: blakkie ---@FraserRonald

No, you weren't suggesting rewriting the rules. That second paragraph doesn't belong in my post, so strike that sucker out. :bow:

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I will consider it duly struck.


--- Quote from: blakkie ---
Often in a well tuned system changing one piece tends to ripple out in a noticable, and occationally unexpected way. Playtesting implies that it might need further changes.

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Very true, and why careful, incremental changes to any system, followed by rigorous playtesting is important. Even when playtesting suggests there may be an issue with anothe rule or section of the system, it's important to analyze and understand how and why the change is impacting that rule/section before making further changes.

If one has a good group with a good grasp of the system, it's easier to make changes on the fly. Removing changes and re-setting to normal with such a group--in my experience--is quite easy. Also, such a group is able to give better feedback and offer good ideas when there is something that needs changing.


--- Quote from: blakkie ---
In this case with the ammuniton supply.  If that is the balancing factor you are going to count on for this change, and we assume that currently the system is balanced, then is the influence of ammunition supply going to need to be upped?  How to do that? And where will that change ripple too?

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When using encumbrance rules, and enforcing the recording of ammunition usage, ammunition in d20 is already an important factor in weapon balance. It's also important to remember the time factor in changing magazines.


--- Quote from: blakkie ---
Of course knowing the system really, really well helps this a lot. Usually by playing with it for some time. But often I've see people read through a rules book once, or even played it for a while, and then say "well obviously this one thing has to change because of XYZ" and going ahead and doing that without realizing the ripple effect they are creating and it's far reaching implications.

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And after doing so, watching their game go kla-blooie, and wonder what went wrong. Yeah, tinkering with rules without understanding them is like tinkering with an engine or electronic device without understanding it. Don't expect it to do what it did before one started one's tinkering.


--- Quote from: blakkie ---
I'm not saying that must be the case here, because I haven't even read the book/SRD. But that is something to watch for there.
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It's a good warning, and something to remember, whenever trying to "fix" a system.

Cheers.

Cynosure:

--- Quote from: Bagpuss ---I just give a flat -4 to hit for using a longarm in a confined area, which is basically any internal space other than a warehouse, you can offset this penalty by taking a move action to aim. SMG, most bullpups and carbines don't have this modifier. This basically means you can move and fire with shorter weapons, but can't move and fire with longarms without having a penalty.

I allow pistols to be used in melee without provoking Attacks of Opportunity. Attacks with SMGs, bullpups and carbines in melee are at -2 to hit and longarms at -4 (these penalties can't be offset), and produce an AoO.
--- End quote ---

That is a good compromise. It gives at least a nod toward realism, thereby making pistols and submachineguns a more viable option.

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