d like to make courage the currency for doing things within a game. If a character wants to cross a raging river, then they have to summon up enough courage to do so. One question I have is whether or not to make the amount of courage needed to attempt something hidden from the player. Using the river as an example again, lets say it has a Peril rating of 4. The character spends 3 points of Courage, however it is not enough and they are not able to even attempt the crossing. I think this works rather well in simulating just what someone has going through their mind when attempting something that carries a risk. I'd make Courage points refresh at a rate of 1 point per 10 minutes. Now lets say the character currently has 7 Courage points. They spent 3 points and have only 4 left. Now they could either wait for some or all of the points to refresh (10 to 30 minutes), or spend the 4 remaining points in hope it is enough. To add further tension is that summoning Courage is also required when facing a foe. On the other side of the river is a patrol of Orcs. If the character spends the last of the their Courage points he runs the risk that if encountered he cannot fight and will either flee in terror or be captured/killed.
The same rule applies for combat. Opponents must summon Courage to make an attack. Each side makes an initial bid. Lets say the character eventually crosses the river and all Courage points have been refreshed before an Orc on patrol discovers the character. The Character currently has 7 Courage points, while the Orc has 6 points. Nearly everything in the game requires Courage points to be spent in order to activate, so if either the character or the Orc wants to pull a blade and swing it will cost Courage. This means that not all Courage can be spent in the opening bid to gain the attack. The Character spends 2 points, while the Orc spends 1. The character gets to attack. He spents 1 point to activate his sword and swings (taking him down to 4 Courage points). The Orc must spend a point to Dodge or Parry the attack (taking the Orc down to 5 points). Character rolls 2d6 and adds appropriate skill to the result. If hit the Orc must roll to see what damage is suffered.
I thought that at this point if an attack were to hurt the Orc, the character could gain some Courage points back depending on how successful the strike was. Lets say that for every 3 points that was over the TN, you get 1 point of Courage (points could be lost as well if the attack were to fail at the same increment amounts).
Lets say that the sword struck the Orc with 2 extra successes. This means 2 points of Courage are immediately refreshed and starting the next round the character will 6 Courage points. The Orc suffers any damage and if still have will have 4 points of Courage to spend in the next round. The Orc could bid 3 points, hoping it will be enough to gain the attack and leaving 1 point left to swing the weapon. If the Orc manages to strike the character than it could gain back some or all of its Courage depending on how successful the attack was. I think this has potential for a nice ebb and flow to combat.
Thoughts?
PS – I am thinking that if a character or minion runs out of Courage, they could spend Attribute points. This would be very risky since the refresh rate on an attribute point is 1 per hour AND the reduction makes it more difficult to make a damage save.
I think the problem with this, is with all limited forms of currency, players will get annoyed saying "I as this person wouldn't be afraid of that.." meaning they wouldn't be comfortable lacking courage at certain points--this is magnified if it costs them there normal functionality (attribute loss) on top of that.
I actually examined this concept in some ways--resources to draw upon, with my FRPG, however after trying it out the above sentiment was the regular response I got as feedback. I found a better solution for my game.
However, for yours you may wish to ask, "What is this person's source of courage" and rather than limit it a tangible measure of currency, consider making it something they can draw upon as they WISH, but with a potential fallout or failure if they fail at the task anyway. Such as losing their conviction in their cause or strength in their faith towards the source of that conviction.
This sounds similar to the most recent iteration of the Marvel Universe rpg (which, as far as I know, was not successful and quietly buried). You had certain number of "stones" set by your toughness or endurance or somesuch. Every action a character took they allocated a certain number of their "stones" to represent effort and got to add additional stuff for weapons and mutant powers and whatnot. They described it as a resource-management/effort-allocation mechanic.
Quote from: Rubio;277570This sounds similar to the most recent iteration of the Marvel Universe rpg (which, as far as I know, was not successful and quietly buried). You had certain number of "stones" set by your toughness or endurance or somesuch. Every action a character took they allocated a certain number of their "stones" to represent effort and got to add additional stuff for weapons and mutant powers and whatnot. They described it as a resource-management/effort-allocation mechanic.
Right, but in this case Courage is not stamina--or at least was my intention. I think of it more like reverse version of the Twilight pool found in the LOTR CCG. In that game the twilight pool was used as a costing mechanism for cards. Each card has a numerical cost. When the Free Peoples player plays a card, tokens are added to the twilight pool equal to the cost of that card. The Shadow players, however, must remove twilight tokens equal to their cost to play their cards. Thus the larger more powerful the Fellowship the Free Peoples player plays, the greater the threat from the Shadow players.
So my thought was to do similar, making players spend Courage to activate. But I can see the point Silverlion makes on currency or the lack thereof in a game annoying players. I think if the reward can be strong enough then it might provide the motivation for players.
Quote from: Silverlion;277538However, for yours you may wish to ask, "What is this person's source of courage" and rather than limit it a tangible measure of currency, consider making it something they can draw upon as they WISH, but with a potential fallout or failure if they fail at the task anyway. Such as losing their conviction in their cause or strength in their faith towards the source of that conviction.
I like this, but not sure how to develop it into a working mechanic. I have something called Road, which acts as a modifier to certain situations which involve the Road the character has taken.
There is Conviction in Blue Rose RPG, but cannot remember offhand how it works. Wondering if it similar to your idea.
Quote from: vgunn;277627I like this, but not sure how to develop it into a working mechanic. I have something called Road, which acts as a modifier to certain situations which involve the Road the character has taken.
There is Conviction in Blue Rose RPG, but cannot remember offhand how it works. Wondering if it similar to your idea.
I'm not sure, I don't recall Blue Rose's conviction mechanic--I do recall Hero Points in M&M2E which you get for letting bad things happen to you. This is similar to Fate in Spirit of the Century (an aspect tagged to penalize you gets you a fate point, even if you choose to let it impair you yourself.) Drama Points in Buffy/Angel (Cinematic Unisystem) also work the same way. It might be a resource they get and refills when they let the road they've chosen lead them into something bad.
In Hearts & Souls (my supers game), you reroll dice based on Drive (Why are you a superhero) but you can also reroll dice by simply taking stress--stress is the stuff that stacks up and leads you to fail here and there. (It works for villains too, they don't get to reroll, they get to ignore hero/event caused stress for a bit.) Together this makes an interesting give and take, allowing villains to fight a while, but eventually a hero determined to take them down WILL get to them if they push hard and don't let up, and willingly burn of stress with setbacks (and humor/living up to their heroic ideals.)
In High Valor (my FRPG), heroes can draw on their dice pools for a number of things by acting in character and utilizing those resources (the "pools" are Will, Faith, and Valor) someone can use will to drive them through a battle (adding a will die to their valor roll) by simply giving a description that fits how they're doing so. "I grit my teeth and roar out my frustration, focusing totally on my goal to take down the troll!" and they lend a die from will to valor, and roll. This works similarly across the pools with some limitations imposed by the setting. (Will and Faith workers--those actually doing magic or calling on miracles, can't borrow from the opposite pool. Self Will of the degree needed to do magic precludes asking the High Lord for help, while asking the lord for help shows you are humble and will let his outcomes be as he sees fit not be obtusely stubborn for your own outcomes.)
For your system you might allow them to draw on courage unlimited so long as it fits their "Road" alternately you can have itrefill their pool.
I think the biggest problem is that most people don't have limited courage. They either act with courage or don't--sometimes in a seemingly variable way, some people are foolishly courageous and do extremely risky things. Some people are extremely cautious until they HAVE to make that split second decision to draw on courage. (The man who rushes into a fire to save children from the smoke and flames, versus the stuntman who thrills at crazy stuff.)
Maybe courage isn't really an issue under normal circumstances - if you are out adventuring, you're brave enough - but under extraordinary circumstances, you better have some saved up or you will turn and run. The cool thing about this is that "extraordinary" is a flexible benchmark, so maybe you can define it (by paying character points or whatever) and have the guy who can calmly face down a troll, but needs a little help if he's facing a dragon, and his friend who can't even go to sleep outdoors without spending a point of courage.
I like this idea. Here's what cropped in my mind almost immediately, based loosely on the Resistance rules from BRP. The basic mechanic is to divide Value A by Value B and multiply by 100 to obtain a percentage chance of Value A defeating Value B. So, using your example of a character with a Courage of 7 (Value A), and a river with a Peril rating of 4 (Value B), crossing it is a no-brainer – (7 / 4) x 100 = 175% of crossing. Bump the Peril rating of the river up to 8, though, and the character’s chance of mustering the Courage to cross drops to 87.5%. Roll the percentile dice to see if he has the Courage. Failure in the resistance roll would result in a specified loss of Courage points.
What if you want a sure-fire chance of keeping your nerve, though? Spend your Courage points. At any given moment, you can opt to spend up to your current Courage score to temporarily add to your current score, but afterwards, your Courage will be depleted by that number. Thus, in the second example above, you could temporarily raise your character’s courage from 7 to 8 by spending one point – you’d have a 100% chance of crossing the river of Peril 8, but afterwards, the emotional exhaustion would reduce your functional Courage score from 7 to 6.
This, of course, leads to a sort of death-spiral, which might actually be fun. Let’s say you want to get back across that same Peril 8 river, but your Courage is now 6. You can either take your chances with the 75% chance of mustering your Courage, or you can spend two points to temporarily bring your Courage up to 8 and a 100% chance. Afterwards, though, your Courage will be further depleted to 4. On the off chance you want to cross the same river again, you’d be at 50%, or you could spend your remaining four points to bring your Courage back up to 8 for a 100% chance, after which your character would be totally emotionally exhausted with a Courage score of 0.
Note, of course, that you could have spent fewer Courage points to merely improve the chances of beating the Peril rating, rather than boosting your character’s chances up to a full 100%, slowing the death-spiral as you see fit. Also note that, with a significant gamble on the player’s part, a character can face down a Peril threat twice his Courage with no chance of failure, but will be a nervous wreck afterward. And it’s also worth noting that, if Courage increases with experience, an experienced adventurer will eventually be able to face down once-dreadful Perils without batting an eye, while becoming increasingly Courageous in meeting more intense Perils.
Personally, I’m beginning to think that I’d like to use a system like this for a more heroic play of Call of Cthulhu, where the Sanity threat is replaced (and re-gauged) with Peril. I enjoy the notion of boosting my Courage to twice its normal level in order to look great Cthulhu himself squarely in the eye...and promptly be eaten. At least it'd be an heroic finish.
!i!
Quote from: Ian Absentia;277680I like this idea. Here's what cropped in my mind almost immediately, based loosely on the Resistance rules from BRP. The basic mechanic is to divide Value A by Value B and multiply by 100 to obtain a percentage chance of Value A defeating Value B. So, using your example of a character with a Courage of 7 (Value A), and a river with a Peril rating of 4 (Value B), crossing it is a no-brainer – (7 / 4) x 100 = 175% of crossing. Bump the Peril rating of the river up to 8, though, and the character's chance of mustering the Courage to cross drops to 87.5%. Roll the percentile dice to see if he has the Courage. Failure in the resistance roll would result in a specified loss of Courage points.
What if you want a sure-fire chance of keeping your nerve, though? Spend your Courage points. At any given moment, you can opt to spend up to your current Courage score to temporarily add to your current score, but afterwards, your Courage will be depleted by that number. Thus, in the second example above, you could temporarily raise your character's courage from 7 to 8 by spending one point – you'd have a 100% chance of crossing the river of Peril 8, but afterwards, the emotional exhaustion would reduce your functional Courage score from 7 to 6.
This, of course, leads to a sort of death-spiral, which might actually be fun. Let's say you want to get back across that same Peril 8 river, but your Courage is now 6. You can either take your chances with the 75% chance of mustering your Courage, or you can spend two points to temporarily bring your Courage up to 8 and a 100% chance. Afterwards, though, your Courage will be further depleted to 4. On the off chance you want to cross the same river again, you'd be at 50%, or you could spend your remaining four points to bring your Courage back up to 8 for a 100% chance, after which your character would be totally emotionally exhausted with a Courage score of 0.
Note, of course, that you could have spent fewer Courage points to merely improve the chances of beating the Peril rating, rather than boosting your character's chances up to a full 100%, slowing the death-spiral as you see fit. Also note that, with a significant gamble on the player's part, a character can face down a Peril threat twice his Courage with no chance of failure, but will be a nervous wreck afterward. And it's also worth noting that, if Courage increases with experience, an experienced adventurer will eventually be able to face down once-dreadful Perils without batting an eye, while becoming increasingly Courageous in meeting more intense Perils.
Personally, I'm beginning to think that I'd like to use a system like this for a more heroic play of Call of Cthulhu, where the Sanity threat is replaced (and re-gauged) with Peril. I enjoy the notion of boosting my Courage to twice its normal level in order to look great Cthulhu himself squarely in the eye...and promptly be eaten. At least it'd be an heroic finish.
Okay, I like this. A couple of questions:
Does success from Courage allow you to cross the river or does it merely afford you the chance to cross? I think you could make yourself brave enough (or foolhardy) to try just about anything. But that doesn't mean you will actually survive.
Does this apply only to Perils? What about facing a creature? Give the minion a Threat rating as well. A Orc may be a 1, while facing a Demon could be 13.
Quote from: vgunn;277755Does success from Courage allow you to cross the river or does it merely afford you the chance to cross?
I'd wondered about that, too, and I'm still not sure. I don't like double-jeopardy mechanics For instance, the magic mechanics in the
Nephilim RPG would require as many as three rolls to see if you could muster your magical power, coordinate the astrological portents correctly, and then succeed at your particular spell. Too damned many chances of failing. I'm inclined toward Jason's suggestion of calling for Courage rolls only when the focus of the encounter is really about the character's mettle. Failure results in an inability to even attempt the logical follow-up; success, if not resulting in outright completion of the task, might entail a significant bonus toward completion.
QuoteDoes this apply only to Perils? What about facing a creature? Give the minion a Threat rating as well. A Orc may be a 1, while facing a Demon could be 13.
I mentioned
Call of Cthulhu previously, and that game's Sanity ratings might be a good parallel. I definitely think that creatures and monsters should have ratings against which to pit one's Courage. In that sense, the beasts and beings of
D&D could take on the same sort of sanity-blasting threat that the beings of the Mythos do.
Feasibly, one could give NPCs a sort of psychological Threat or Peril rating, measuring their charisma or psychic magnetism or soul-searing glare or whatever.
!i!
Another idea might be to have a Courage stat, and for monsters or actions to have a Fear rating.
If the Fear rating is higher than the character's Courage stat, then the character gets a minus to their action.
This simulates the effect of fear, but gives a penalty (which players accept) rather than taking control of the character away (which they don't).
That's a very straightforward and sensible approach, and you'd still have the desired outcome - a character lacking courage would be literally crippled with fear in the face of a bad enough monster.
Yes, very Gordian Solution-y of you, AoF. Might it also provide a bonus if your Courage rating exceeds the Peril/Threat rating by a sufficient degree?
The drawbacks that I see are that it drives rather closer to CoC's Sanity mechanics, and that it lacks the "currency" aspect of wagering one's mettle to overcome adversity.
!i!
What about a combo. You keep the Courage Point Rating and the Peril/Threat Rating. If the Peril/Threat rating is higher the player suffers a penalty, though may still attempt the action. If successful they keep their Courage points. However, if they fail they lose Courage points equal to the Peril/Threat Rating AND suffer any additional consequences from the action.
This still keeps the currency aspect of the mechanic, while still allowing players control over their actions.
Quote from: vgunn;277893What about a combo. You keep the Courage Point Rating and the Peril/Threat Rating. If the Peril/Threat rating is higher the player suffers a penalty, though may still attempt the action. If successful they keep their Courage points. However, if they fail they lose Courage points equal to the Peril/Threat Rating AND suffer any additional consequences from the action.
This still keeps the currency aspect of the mechanic, while still allowing players control over their actions.
Interesting, to simplify it a bit. Perhaps the loss of Courage is a singular point at a time--making the threat and growing fear slowly whittle the hero down.
(A death spiral of sorts, but one where the player can choose to flee from the threat, before it overwhelms them--or attempt to flee.)
Quote from: Ian Absentia;277858Yes, very Gordian Solution-y of you, AoF. Might it also provide a bonus if your Courage rating exceeds the Peril/Threat rating by a sufficient degree?!i!
For monsters that are way under, I'd have a small penalty until someone was wounded (because you underestimate them).
An idea that I saw was to have a Willpower attribute. If you wanted, you could roll a dice. This improved your roll by the result, but lowered your Willpower by the same amount. You recovered Willpower whenever you recovered Stamina (basically hit points).
You could easily add other mechanisms on to that (eg roll a certain number on dice + your Willpower or suffer a penalty, Western-style 'staredowns', losing Willpower for various reasons).
EDIT: This could also be used to create mechanical rewards/penalties for role-playing where they don't currently exist.
Okay what about this:
With my system you roll 2d6 (reroll and add double to score) and trait and any relevant talents, equal or beat a difficulty number for success.
Trait score for a player is from 1-12, talent scores go from 1-6, there can be special conditions which can also provide positive/negative modifier.
A character can never have more than 12 points of Courage (or have less than zero) at any one time in the game.
Difficulty Ratings
Description Number Threat
Effortless 3 (0)
Easy 6 (1)
Routine 9 (2)
Challenging 12 (4)
Formidible 15 (6)
Hard 18 (8)
Nearly Impossible 21 (10)
Epic 24 (12)
Success
A character only needs to equal the Difficulty number of the Test to achieve a success. However, if the result beats the Difficulty by a significant margin additional success is awarded. Each time the result exceeds the next Difficulty number an additional success is awarded. Successes carry a number of different benefits for a character and will be explained in detail later in the chapter. For most attempts all you will need is a single success. There are times, however, that the Narrator may require more than one success for an action to succeed. For example, Gandalf is searching for a manuscript in the achieves of Minas Tirith and must pass a Routine Test (9) to locate the tome, but deciphering the text within he will need 3 Successes—effectively making the attempt Formidible. Not achieving the required successes does not mean that Gandalf failed, he found the book but was not, however, able to read the obscure writings within.
Foes and Perils have a Threat level from 1 to 12. A character who does not have enough Courage will suffer a penalty equal to the difference equal his Courage and the Threat level (a character with more Courage than the Threat will have a bonus equal to the difference). For example, a Character with 6 Courage is attempting to ford a danger river which has a Threat of 8. He may attempt to cross, but will suffer a -2 on the Test if he does. Further, the margin of Failure results in the number of Courage points he will lose as well as any consequences imposed by the Peril. So if you attempt to cross the river, but Fail badly suffering 3 Failures, you lose 3 Courage points and in addition will endure any consequences from your action. A character with more Courage than the Threat will have a bonus equal to the difference.
Example of Player vs a Peril:
Player has 4 Courage, the Peril for the river is rated 8. A -4 penalty is applied to the roll. The player has a Hroä (Sindarin for Body) score of 6 and Talents; Strong (3) and Agile (2) giving him a total of 11. A Hard Test is required (18 or higher to Succeed), 2d6 are rolled with a -4 penalty. The player rolls a 9 -4 which is reduced to a 5. Add the 11 from his Trait and Talents and the total is 16. The test is Failed, but not badly—only 1 Failure. The player loses 1 Courage point and suffers the lowest of three Consequences of the Peril—in this case, exhaustion and a temporary -1 to all actions involving Hroä for the next hour. The character can attempt to cross again, but now has 3 Courage and would have a -5 penalty and his Hroä down a point to 5 as well.
Assume the river crossing is much less of a challenge, carrying a Peril rating of 3. The character has 4 Courage and will have a +1 to the Test. He rolls a 7 +1 for an 8. With a Threat of only 3, the Test is considered Routine and only a 9 is needed for Success. Add 11for Trait and Talents and his score is 18. The character passes with 4 Successes. 3 Successes reduces the Peril to 0, so the river is crossed. 1 Success is turned into a point of Courage, raising his total to 5.
Now lets go back to the original situation with the Peril of 8. The character rests for an hour to regain his lost point due to exhaustion and takes another hour summoning back his point of Courage. So two hours later he is ready to try again. The original situation still applies and he will be at -4. However, he can choose to spend some or all of his Courage to offset the penalty. He spends 3 points and the penalty is reduced to -1 (his Courage is now 1). He rolls doubles (fours) and gets to roll again getting a 5 (8+5-1=12). The 12 is added to 11 for a total of 23. This is 2 Successes. The Peril is reduced to 6. His Courage however is only a 1, so he will now have a -5 penalty—but the Test has become somewhat easier (a 15 is needed to pass). He rolls doubles again (threes) and rerolls a 6 (6+6-5=7). His 11 is totaled to 7 for a score of 18, gaining another 2 Successes. The Peril is further reduced to 4. He will have a -3 penalty, but the Test has become easier once again (a 12 is needed to pass). Player rolls a 4 (4-3=1) and adds 11 for a total of 12. He passes with 1 Success. The Peril is now a 3 (9 is needed to pass). The character is making slow, but steady progress across the dangerous river. With a penalty of -2, rolls a 10 (10-2=8) and adds 11 for a score of 19. This is 4 Successes and the Peril is reduced to 0. He makes it across ! He also gets 1 point of Courage back for the extra Success bringing him up to 2, he will regain his other two points back as time passes.
Thoughts?