I have a wild hair up my ass!  I want to take OD&D / S&W and combine it with Cyberpunk / Magitech.  

Here's my design concepts so far.

1) GENERAL CONCEPT
I don't want to recreate Shadowrun.   Which is tough since Shadowrun is D&D + Cyberpunk.

2) TECH & MAGIC
Instead of "Earth gets Magic", I am thinking "Surreal World" where tech is powered by magic.   Not just steampunk where tech operates by different physics, but a bizarre landscape where tech exists just like magic exists in a fantasy world.  

I don't want Tech vs. Magic.  Nor do I want "medieval world with guns" exactly.   I am thinking a techno-dreamlands.   Somewhere where the people know that something is very wrong, some may suspect they aren't even real, but its the only reality they know.

3) THE WORLD
The "world" is the Grid.  The grid stretches an unknown distance.   Is it one giant city?  A continent?  A planet?   What is known is the Grid stretches upward in an ancient mass of rusty iron and crumbling stone.   The top is the Sky Citadels where the richest and most powerful live.  The mid-section is the Smog where the mass of humanity lives trying to "earn" their way upward, but mostly scambling in panic to survive and keep from falling downward.  

The lowest level is the Dark which exists in near complete shadow since little sunlight passes through the Smog.  Monsters live in the Dark, but down here there is dirt, water and an startling ecosystem.  And sometimes, the monsters make their way up the foodchain.

Of course, there is the Deep Below which exists under the Dark and who knows what is happening there.   I am thinking about how the Sky Citadels are "fiddling while Rome is burning", those in the Smog are too busy backstabbing each other to notice that "the barbarians are at the gate" while there are active forces in the Dark trying to bring down the entire Grid.

For media inspiration, think Dark City, Brazil and the future of HG Well's Time Machine.  

4) FOOD
Plants need light to grow.  Fungi don't.   Thus there are beautiful gardens among the Sky Citadels and those above eat fresh fruit and veggies.  Their water is fresh rain.  

Fresh food is rare in the Smog.  So hunting parties go down into the Dark and gather mushrooms and slay meat to sell to the upward levels.  

Fortunately, the spell "Continual Light" creates a permanent light source, essentially allowing for "victory gardens", but not whole scale agriculture.  Especially since I plan to alter the spell's duration.

5) CYBER
Instead of Cyber, I am thinking "Rune Iron" implants.   When you replace a bit of yourself, you get a "rune iron" equivalent.  Essentially, people would be turning themselves into golems with implants and augments.

Of course, there would be some cyberpyschosis type mechanic.   I am thinking you roll 1D6 per implant and once the tally is higher than your CHA, then your alignment shifts one step along the Law - Neutral - Chaos axis.   If alreadly Chaotic, then you get a saving throw or go off the deep end.  

6) GUNS
It all comes down to guns doesn't it.  Guns defines "Modern" vs. "Archaic".   Here's what I am thinking so far.

I like the "all weapons do base D6 damage" from OD&D and S&W: White Box.  A holdout pistol would do 1D6-1, pistols and rifles do 1D6 and shotguns do roll 2D6 and keep the higher die.   What makes guns dangerous is that the damage dice explode on a 6.    So regardless of your level, a gunshot could be a grazing shot or it could blow your head off.  

As for the look of guns, I don't want to drop modern weapons that have hundreds of years of refinement.   Instead, I am thinking of an entire weapon catalog based around the Revolver concept, but with much larger shells.  

In fact, I am thinking of taking the words "slug" and "shell" literally in the context that these are living creatures you harvest in the dark and then use as ammo.  

As for autofire, I am thinking of multi-barrel guns.  So you can have a tri-barrel carbine that hammers forth 3 shells per pull of the trigger.  

7) REAL vs. UNREAL
I want a human world...but players always want their fantasy options.   Just like you can make yourself into an iron golem with rune implants, you can also get polymorphs into a bunch of half-human options and some people can even "reveal" their true Dwarf / Elf / Ogre self via transformations.   As loathe as I am to include Dwarves and Elves, I know players love them so I want to make a place for them.  

More importantly, since the world is surreal, I want to enforce this by using the 0-level options from D&D.  0-level people are One-Dimensional.   They literally have one overarching dimension of personality.   Only 1 in 10 people are "real" with a 3D persona.   Yes, players will describe the 3 non-physical traits of their character.  

Limiting them to 3 isn't a problem.  Most gamers don't have nuanced characters and 3 traits is probably 1-2 more than usual.  I'm just as guilty of this as most.  Unless the campaign is going to be very character focussed, I know that I've played plenty of two-dimensional characters.

If a HD 0 person goes on an adventure or has a major experience, they may develop a second personality dimension.  They are rare and often become the more important...and dangerous NPCs.

Part of the alignment division of Law / Neutral / Chaos is how you treat your HD 0 fellows.  Chaotics don't consider them real people and happily abuses and slays them with impunity.   Lawfuls know that HD0 bleed, suffer and die and that's enough of a reason to treat them with respect.   Neutrals deal with them based on simply on personality.  

CHARACTERS
What do characters do?  They most likely start in the Smog, trying to scramble to survive.  There are plenty of power politics by those trying to move upward and those above who prefer to manipulate the riff-raff with promises of "future" wealth.

As adventures continue, the PCs could become more involved in trying to move themselves upward, uncovering plots and maybe building allegiances to own their square in the Grid.  Lots of opportunity to become vassals to Grid Barons, betray them and carve their own block by block empires.  

Of course, there is the constant threat of scarcity.  The "good stuff" is held by those in the Sky Citadels.  Meat must be killed in the Dark.  Even ammo has to be harvested down there.   And down there in the dirt are the forces who want to bring down this mechanical nightmare abomination and let the sun shine upon the soil again.  

The big organized foe down  will be Dark Elves, scary albinos who may be few in number, but great in power.  

9) CHARGEN
I like classes, but I like multi-classing even more.   I am thinking of a unified XP progression and you can choose to get levels in Warrior / Priest / Mage / Rogue.   You would start with 3 levels (2 levels if you began "runed" or "enchanted") and you could put them anywhere you like.

I am also thinking about making level 10 max in any one class.   HP would not be piled on, but fixed.  So a Fighter would get 6 HP per level, Priests 5 HP, Rogue 4 HP, Mage 3 HP.   If you were F 5, R 4, you would have 30 HP and not 46.  If you were F 2 R 6 M 7, then you'd have 24 HP (Rogue 6 x 4 HP).

So am I smoking crack?  Does any of this sound fun?   Part of me says to keep playing around with the ideas and see where they go.  But part of me says just go play some Shadowrun instead.

Sounds more like Eberron, with the "magitech", plus some dystopia tacked on for extra cyberpunk flavor, than Shadowrun. This has a lot of potential; I like it. :cool:

System-wise, I love OD&D/S&W, but I've never encountered a version of multiclassing I like; and I generally consider most versions of D&D a poor fit for "multi-talented" characters. Have you considered a classless system?

Don't a lot of the magipunk settings already do the implanted limbs thing? (I know Cloak of Steel has some of that. But it has mecha.)

I don't think I want clockwork "bionics", but instead the augments begin to slowly turn a human into a golem by internalizing "iron via rune magic" and a detect magic.

I want to play with the theme of becoming "more human than human" at the risk of your humanity.  Instead of cutting off your arm and screwing on a mech device, you suffer a ritual that turns your bones into iron and a glowing rune is visible above your arm to all who can detect magic.  As you become more iron instead of flesh, your priorities and allegiances may also change and the yearning for more and more mage-iron may become overwhelming.

I am not going for Mecha...in the bipedal sense.   I am thinking of weaving in the work I did on RuneTanks and bringing them into this game as the main form of transportation.

I wasn't an Eberron fan, but definitely fantasy + tech is going to be magitech as much as want to avoid that title.

I am definitely going very dystopian....but not hopeless.  Instead, I do want a Conanish S&S aspect that with enough wits and violence, a man can carve out a better future, maybe even helping the world avoid destruction in the process.

Definitely dark fantasy.   As for dystopian elements, I want the allure of power to be deep and easy to rationalize and ultimately dooming.

Quote from: The Butcher;409262This has a lot of potential; I like it. :cool:

Agreed. I like the concept a lot.

In the GURPS 3rd Edition CyberPunk Book there was a bit about running a cyber punk game with magic replacing technology: Merchant Houses instead of Corporations, magical augmentation rather than technological augmentation.

I once ran a HERO game with that kind of set up, but I didn't have your vertical element (Sky Citadels---Smog---Dark), which is something that I think is extremely cool. I'd like to borrow that concept if I ever run a game like that again. . . .

Quote from: The Butcher;409262System-wise, I love OD&D/S&W, but I've never encountered a version of multiclassing I like; and I generally consider most versions of D&D a poor fit for "multi-talented" characters. Have you considered a classless system?

Yes, I am fairly put off by anything D&Dish, so the system stuff is not all that appealing to me.

I am squeezing thoughts out of my brain on various views of how society exists inside the Grid.

Proles and Full Humans

There are two distinct humans: 1 HD proles with 1 dimensional personas, and "real humans" who have 3 dimensional personas and capable of gaining character classes.   There are 10 proles for 1 fully human.

Life in the Smog

The Smog is bad shit.   It's not just a maze of rusting iron.  There is something deeply wrong with the place on a spiritual level.   If you live there, a hole opens in your soul.   A hole that causes constant cravings for you to fill with whatever you can - sex, drugs, headbanging music, total greed for money and power or whatever drives you.  

This soul hole is worsened by the massive overpopulation in the Smog.  People are packed like rats, disease, starvation and insanity are everywhere.

Think MegaCity One meets Calcutta...with no sunlight.

The hole closes after some years in the Citadel...making those who live on the top too long "soft" compared to the new arrivals.  Oddly, the hole also vanishes if you were to live in the Dark...but no human can survive down there very long since its a Monster filled hunting ground.

Guilds, Gangs and Barons

Guilds control one area of production (Water, Glass, Iron, Hunting, Pneumatics, etc) and only their members are allowed to have skill in their craft.  They will hunt and kill "amateurs" and rogues who dare go against Guild decrees.

Gangs control a few blocks or simply roam causing havoc.   Every once in a while, a gang lord decides to carve out his area of the Grid.   By ancient tradition, he who controls 10 x 10 blocks is awarded the title of Baron.

Barons are just gangers who made good.  In taking turf, they often grab Guild members or resources and even become local competitors or simply no longer need to negotiate with a particular Guild since they own some of their old goodies.   In olden days, Guilds tried outright war with Barons, but the result was tremendous death.

Today, Guilds keep an eye on gangs gaining power and try to take them down before they can become Baronies.   However, the inter-Guild strife means that for every Guild pushing down a particular Gang, there is another Guild helping them.   Of course, most Barons are also looking to expand their turf, but upon becoming acknowledged as True Barons, they can no longer strike out at Guilds...except in the shadows.

Our PCs are called Blades and they are our "shadow runners" who act as proxies in Guild / Gang / Baron conflicts.

Up in the Citadel, there are Guilds who cater to their luxury needs, but their world is much more courteous (at least to your face) than life in the Smog.   The Citadel Kings are always on watch for changes in the status quo and play all sorts of secret games with the lives of Guilds and Barons below them.

Meanwhile, the fortunes of Citadel Kings can take a turn for the worse, forcing them to sell off some of their precious lands...leading to bidding wars in the Smog as Barons offer to trade their kingdoms for a humble cottage under the clean blue skies above.

Church and Spirit Cults

The Church is a construct to keep the Civil Order.   Priests preach the status quo and adherence to the social order.   Barons aren't gangers, they are nobles.  Guilds deserve their wealth, we should be thankful for them.   In exchange for the tithing from Guilds and Baronies, the wealthy Church keeps the populace in line.   They preach against drugs and uprisings, promising a "happy afterlife" based on obedience.   The Citadel?  Oh, those are just the most holy people who spend all their time praying to help those below.  Didn't ya know?

The Barons & Guilds expect more than just Public Relations from the Church.  In exchange for lots of gold, the Church hires Mages as "Priests" who use magic to create food and purify water.   The proles can listen to sermons and then receive some sustenance.   Starvation is the #1 cause of uprisings, so the Church is expected to keep the masses alive enough to go to work the next morning.   Also, the Church hunts down Spirit Cults along with lycanthropes and the undead.

Spirit Cults are shockingly common.  Shamans (those humans who can control spirits found in flesh, metal, fire, etc) are hired by Guilds quite often, but many enjoy spreading cults among the proles.   They gather congregations and focus them upon a particular type of spirit and help them commune.   When the congregation is ready, the Transformation takes place.   Everyone makes a saving throw vs. death.  If you succeed, you become a Level 1 Shaman with control of the spirit worshipped by the cult.  If you fail, your bodily energy transforms into a free spirit.

To proles with unrelentingly terrible lives, the option to become a poltergeist of fire, iron, water, etc does not sound bad either.   However, most only stay "free" for 2D6+1 days before forgetting all their humanity and becoming yet another spirit contained in its totem.

The new stuff is awesom! More magical, different than Shadowrun in a very distinct way. Keep at it!

What about other monsters? How do fantasy creatures deal with this world?

Quote from: Silverlion;410501More magical, different than Shadowrun in a very distinct way. Keep at it!

I am re-reading Shadowrun and jotting down notes about key concepts and then reworking / reimagining / retooling how they work in a fantasy world that gained tech instead of Earth that gained magic and filtering it through a more dystopian lens.

Quote from: Silverlion;410501What about other monsters? How do fantasy creatures deal with this world?

The three layers of the Grid are Citadel, Smog and Dark.   Majority of "monsters" exist in the Dark where they live in a "kill or be killed" environment even more violent than the Smog.

I envision that most small / medium fantasy monsters can probably show up in the Dark.  Large monsters would be rare.

The Smog is overpopulated with proles, but even Calcutta has enough alleyways and deep holes where stuff like wererats, street wolves, vampires, ghouls and werewolves could exist.

The Citadel is the most "civilized" area and monsters are almost unknown here, except for aerial predators.   It's more like the courts in L5R where its about intrigue, not combat.   A monster that exists there would have to be able to blend in extremely well among humans and hide its existence.   However, the Citadel is more about the "dream" that PCs want to achieve.   Kinda like "Shell Beach" in the movie Dark City.

In addition to the physical layers, there are the magical layers.   There is an Ethereal Realm that overlays Reality and co-exists in the same space that has all sorts of frightening denizens that *could* cross over when summoned by Mages.  

In fact, that's where I see most monsters showing up is via summonings.  

Also, I am thinking about adapting a system for making monsters unique and trying to cut down on the "standards", but I am not 100% sure yet.  Maybe I will have Grid-specific / Grid-retooled monsters with various mutational options.

As for the fantasy version of the internet, I am working on "Mirrors"...'cuz you are going to need your mirrorshades in the Smog.

I'm off the OD&D reservation and into retro-whatever-steal-ideas land.  I have no idea what kind of system I will wind up with at the end of the day.  I will have classes because I like them, but the concept is that multi-classing is normal and you build your dude by either going down the line with one class or bouncing about Chinese Menu style.

I am playing around with magic.  There are two classes - Shamans and Mages.  The Grid is a tough, nasty place and these Shamans aren't hippie ancestor worshippers.  Instead, Shamans control spirits, bind them and devour them for power.

A shaman has a number of spirit masteries equal to Level + Stat modifier.   I am unsure what stat right now or even what the stat names will be.   Then there will be Level + Another Stat to determine how many spirits a Shaman can have bound/devoured at any one time.

Here's the current list of spirit options:  
Eternal Elementals = Fire, Stone, Water, Wind
Earthly Transients = Beast, Death, Flesh, Metal, Wood

If I use a D20 for checks / saving throws / whatevers, then the mods will look like this:

+2 = Talk to a Spirit
(not all spirits are equally intelligent and some will be incapable of communication, some just barely sentient and a few quite talkative)

+0 = Compel a Spirit
Shamans can force a spirit to do a single action.   Thus a shaman who has mastered Beast spirits is trapped in an alley by two streetwolves.  He could command one of the spirits and demand one wolf bite the other.   Hopefully he'll escape in the ensuing chaos.    A shaman with Water mastery could have the spirit within a barrel of muck to force the impurities to the bottom while he drinks his fill of pure water.  Etc, etc.  Its all about being creative with the spirits.

-2 = Bind a Spirit
Shamans can yank a spirit out of its totem/domain and shove it into his own aura where it swirls around all ghostly until the Shaman decides to use it for some purpose.  The most common use is to have a Ghost Aura which gives the shaman a +2 bonus when dealing with the same kind of spirits.   I will have a list of various things you can do with bound spirits.

Bound spirits are locked in as long as the shaman is conscious.  Shamans do an unbinding ritual before going to sleep to keep the spirits from going berserk when freed.   But if the Shaman is just whacked or knocked out, then all bets are off.  Can you say poltergeists & possession?

-4 = Devour a Spirit
Smog Shamans aren't treehuggers.  We eat our spirits and poop out rainbows?  Not exactly, they devour the essence of the spirit granting themselves a particular power based on the type of spirit.  I am unsure if the exact power is random or based on the shaman's stats or based on the player choice of options.  No clue yet.

ELEMENTALS vs. EARTHLY
Looking at the list of spirits, it seems FAR more badass to master the spirits of Flesh and Metal than the others.  Here's the rub.   A spirit of Flesh is awesome for control of the one dimensional proles (aka 1HD normals) and many other creatures, but PCs and their three-dimensional classed kin (and elven enemies) are something else and unaffected by Flesh spirits.  But hey, still deeply powerful.

The big difference is Elementals are ancient eternal spirits and thus more powerful in certain ways.  First, they can be "devoured" but in reality, you are just melding with them while they sit around in your aura.  So if you "devour" an Air spirit, you get both the advantages of a devouring and binding and the spirit only takes up one "slot" of your total.  You get more bang for your buck with Elementals, but since most action will be in the Smog, having command of Earthly spirits are very useful so players will need to make their choices.

MORE MAGIC JIBBA JABBA

So let's talk about Mages.   They are your traditional "spell slingers", but I had a moment in my last OD&D event that stuck out in my head...badly.

I love OD&D, but CRPGS and other RPGS have utterly changed player expectations.  Players who play mages want to cast spells...like every action they get.  I ran a bunch of 7th levelers and by the second battle, the clerics and the mages were dry.  Any concept of resource management was out the window.   This wasn't the first time.  I've been seeing this more and more common with OD&D events over the past few years.  

And then I get Mopey the Mage as the player until he can recharge. I don't blame the players.   Rationing fun sucks ass.   Waiting around to "savor the right moment" may have been delicious in the past, but I'm not seeing that kick with players today.

So here's what I got so far for Mages in the Smog.

Here's the spell progression.   You may fill your brain with a certain number of spells known.   You get to add your appropriate stat bonus to the total number of spells known.

1st = 1 spell
2nd = 3 spells
3rd = 6 spells
4th = 10 spells
5th = 15 spells
6th = 21 spells

Spells will not be broken down into levels.  I went through the D&D lists and I am re-imagining every spell becoming equivalent.   I don't want big showy magic in the setting so no Wish or Meteor Swarms.  However, carving down 4th and 5th level spells has been remarkably easy since they feel like equal choices to many 1st and 2nd level spells that have been re-imagined.

Additionally, spells can be modified.  Mages can infuse extra bonuses into a spell, tailoring them into their own.   I am a big believer in player's making their magic their own.

Spells known isn't Spells Per Day.  Instead, you gotta roll a Magic Roll every time you cast a spell.  The more you prep before you cast, the bigger the bonus so non-combat casting can get up to a +4 (if we use a D20).  If you succeed, your spell goes off just fine.

If you fail, then something goes wrong.  If your die roll is an Even number, then you suffer 1D6 damage as the spell burns out of your mind.  If you survive, you will need to re-memorize the spell which takes a day of effort.  

If you roll an Odd number, the spell gets warped.   The spell energy is released, but gets garbled, twisted and otherwise manifests in a different than expected manner.    There will be a big list of examples and GMs will be encouraged to make up F/X on the fly based on the circumstances.   When magic gets warped, it gets influenced by the immediate environment.

I am a fumble junkie.  I freaking love them.  It's probably why I stick with the D20 in my design ideas.   I do like 2D6, but that makes fumbles / crits happen 1 in 36 instead of 1 in 20.  I have no exact idea on what happens on a Magic fumble, but its bad.  Maybe as simple as you get the worst of both Even and Odd failures.

A gang is battling wererats.  The gang's mage casts Flying Blade and empowers it with a silver coin to do extra harm the lycanthrope.  He rolls and fails.  Let's say he rolled a 3 so its Odd.  Forget modifiers, failures are about the raw die roll.  Here's some easy Warp options:

• The Flying Blade ricohets off the nearby wall, roll randomly for who gets the damage.
• The blade of force melds with the silver coin and becomes...a blade of solid silver and drops to the ground with a thunk.
• The spell splashes over the wererat, turning his fur into a beautiful silver coat.
• The spell blade spins in place with a high pitched hum.  Its nasty and dangerous if touched, but its not going anywhere until dispelled.
• The spell slams into the wererat...and transfers the lycanthropy to the mage.
• Who knows what else?

If he failed with a 4, then its Even and he just suffers 1D6 and he loses the Flying Blade spell.  Fast, efficient and painful.

All the stuff sounds cool, my only complaint is fumbles so far.

Why? It isn't that I dislike failure, especially dramatic failure. It's that I hate someone else being screwed over for a failure they had nothing to do with, other than being present when it happens. All failures should be sensibly based, but with magic, and other similar things--it should always reflect, trouble, screw the caster.

You'll note High Valor setbacks often affect everyone, but that's modeled intent. That magic is REALLY powerful, and world impacting. If you keep to smaller spells, you have less for the group to worry about. I might do something similar here if you wish to keep fumbles. Make sure it either targets the caster, or he has to be doing something very very high end.

I like the setting quite a bit.

I don't have an opinion on the mechanics, but I like the ideas.  Some of the concepts aren't dissimilar to stuff I've been throwing about lately for a setting.

Between things like Eberron, Iron Kingdoms and Zir'An, there's obviously a lot of gamers looking for a setting with a balance of fantasy/steampunk/tech/guns.

You seem happy with the gun rules, but here's an older thread about modeling them, for your interest.

Quote from: Spinachcat;409248The top is the Sky Citadels where the richest and most powerful live.  The mid-section is the Smog where the mass of humanity lives trying to "earn" their way upward, but mostly scambling in panic to survive and keep from falling downward.  

The lowest level is the Dark which exists in near complete shadow since little sunlight passes through the Smog.

Pic related.