A couple of weeks ago, my group of life-long friends got together for our second Mancation.  Mancation is where all the guys get together without significant others and children for the weekend and hang out.  We drink, smoke, and play games: card, dice, board, console, and, naturally, RPGs.  If any remember, my group drank the 4e D&D Kool-Aid up until the release of 4.5 D&D... er, the D&D Essentials line.  After the release of D&D Essentials, they stopped dipping their cups into the punch bowl and stopped playing 4e D&D altogether.  We now use the 6e HERO System.

We played a session of 4e D&D to get everyone there involved in the game because some of the guys are retired from role-playing and would only play if it was 'D&D.'  We created 3rd level characters for the session.

I created a Minotaur Barbarian (Thaneborn): Cordris.

It's a standard beginning: all the characters don't know each other, but are in the same tavern, and hear that someone is looking for muscle to protect a caravan due to recent bandit activity against caravans in the area.  Naturally, we're all low on funds and need work.  We get hired and are tasked with escorting a dwarven merchant caravan of three covered wagons.

Surprise!  We're ambushed by the bandits.

However, these bandits are no joke as they're organized and tough as nails.  It's a tough fight, but in the end we are victorious (it is 4e D&D after all).

It is during the course of the fight that a situation arose which destroyed my immersion in the scene.  My character was reduced to below zero hit points and knocked unconscious.  The pacifist halfling cleric was going to use a power to heal my character, but the only thing he had left in his arsenal was a burst healing power.  Another player who's character was missing hit points insisted! that the cleric player should delay his action so that this other player's character can move and get into the burst to be healed.  He whined about it until the cleric player relented and held his life-saving healing action until the other wounded player could move across the board and get into the healing burst too.

This kind of blew the whole scene and vibe for me because there was no logical, in-game, reason for the halfling cleric to wait to save my character's life.  My minotaur was lying unconscious and bleeding out with two opponents still intent on killing him, and the cleric delays moving to his aid to save his life because another character on the other side of the fight has to run over and get into the healing burst just to get some hit points back.  This broke the verisimilitude for me, and, consequently, the immersion I was experiencing up to that moment in the encounter and game session.

Whiny self centered players suck in and out of character. I've got one and sometimes he just has to be slapped down.

Also, I always forget that we live so close to one another (I'm in Ft Collins)... beware!

Quote from: Aos;527205Whiny self centered players suck in and out of character. I've got one and sometimes he just has to be slapped down.

Yeah, he's like this no matter the game being played.

Quote from: Aos;527205Also, I always forget that we live so close to one another (I'm in Ft Collins)... beware!

Didn't know it, but now I'll be looking over my shoulder daily!

If I was a GM in that situation Drohem, I'd kill your character by bleeding him out (well, alright - you'd get a Fortitude/Constitution check).

Nothing teaches a player to respect immersion of others like causing other player to die by his OOC actions.

Much as I hate 4e, I blame this one on the player, not the system.

The whole anyone-within-range-gets-healed thing (as opposed to only-the-target-of-the-spell-gets-healed) sounds retarded, though.

Quote from: Dodger;527228The whole anyone-within-range-gets-healed thing (as opposed to only-the-target-of-the-spell-gets-healed) sounds retarded, though.

Healing Circle was back in 3e.

Quote from: B.T.;527226Much as I hate 4e, I blame this one on the player, not the system.

It's a mixture of the two, I think:  he was 'playing the system' to maximize his healing potential which, in of itself, is neither here nor there because the system itself fosters this type of thinking.  

However, as I sat there and watched him work this all out (bitching about how low his character's hit points were and absolutely needed to be in that healing burst) before any in-game action was taken it became clear to me that this way of thinking was an instant buzz-kill on my personal experience of immersion and verisimilitude.

I wasn't commenting on 4e vs 3e. I was just sayinng that it sounds a bit rertarded.

Not a big fan of spells like that, personally.  Fireball makes sense to hit everyone in an area...healing bursts, not so much.

Quote from: Drohem;527198He whined about it until the cleric player relented and held his life-saving healing action until the other wounded player could move across the board and get into the healing burst too.

It's a nasty artefact of an ordered turn-based initiative system. In the game world, the characters certainly aren't standing still waiting for their go.

Personally, I prefer initiative systems where the players don't know for certain who will actually get to act first. I think it better simulates the chaos of combat than the fairly rigid order that most RPG's tend to impose, and it forces you to think about your manoeuvres in more depth.

Quote from: Dodger;527235I wasn't commenting on 4e vs 3e. I was just sayinng that it sounds a bit rertarded.

Well, since all WOTC D&D is special olympics material, its all good.

Quote from: Ladybird;527250It's a nasty artefact of an ordered turn-based initiative system. In the game world, the characters certainly aren't standing still waiting for their go.

THIS.

For me, group initiative helps solve this problem. It's not any more realistic, but it helps stop these "please delay!!!" moments which always suck away immersion.

BTW, why is a circle of healing any different than a circle of protection or a circle of fire? It's all area of effect magic.