Quote from: flyingmiceFiction, yes, and illustrations. But art? Never!

-clash

I know you're being facetious, but "art" is a catch all term for anything that isn't copy. In the newspaper biz, we call photographs, "art."

Quote from: KazI know you're being facetious, but "art" is a catch all term for anything that isn't copy. In the newspaper biz, we call photographs, "art."

In the game publishing business, we also call illos "art." I personally prefer the term "illos" or "illustrations" but I am indeed being facetious here.

-clash

OK, so now we know most folks think art is pretty important.  With that said, can I get opinions on two of the pieces I was planning on using, and let me know if these are something that would catch your eye while browsing through books

It's about context.  Surely these are not two options for the same book?  The picture speaks, is it talking in unison with the rest of the book?


EDIT:  On a more personal level the top picture looks like action [about to happen], and it's got some creepy hide-and-seek things going on. I like the slightly fuzzy look to it. If I saw that I'd pick up the book and give you a look.

The bottom to me strikes me as posing. I'm not big on posing. Or orange sky. It doesn't look like a game I'd get into. That could be ok if you were going for surreal tone with your game? It just isn't me, and I'm not the one to judge it.

Classic Traveller has no art whatsoever, and it's an awesome game that lots of people still play.

BESM 1e had eye-bleedingly bad art crammed in a pathetic little 90-page pamphlet, and yet it still managed to be pretty darn popular for a good long time before management missteps sank the company.

Palladium has been basically reusing the same, often terrible illustrations for decades now and for much of it's lifespan was the number 3 game company in the world.

White Wolf took leave of it's senses sometime around the release of WtA 2e and decided all of it's art should be bad anime fan art pastiche of Chang Wufei from Gundam Wing, but they managed to survive it anyway.

A lot of the art in the earlier D&D era was frankly terrible, despite the popular nostalgia for it, but that didn't seem to stop it from becoming a massive cultural sensation.  Shit, even the art in the cartoon was bad.

From this, I can only conclude that art means fuck all.  IT's nice when it's there, and I can't imagine some games without it, like Gamma World for instance, but it's not really as important as the internet geeks would have you believe I think.

Quote from: DwightIt's about context.  Surely these are not two options for the same book?  The picture speaks, is it talking in unison with the rest of the book?


EDIT:  On a more personal level the top picture looks like action [about to happen], and it's got some creepy hide-and-seek things going on. I like the slightly fuzzy look to it. If I saw that I'd pick up the book and give you a look.

The bottom to me strikes me as posing. I'm not big on posing. Or orange sky. It doesn't look like a game I'd get into. That could be ok if you were going for surreal tone with your game? It just isn't me, and I'm not the one to judge it.

They are both for the same system, but for different books.  The bottom one is the main rulebook, and the top one is a supplement.

For me, when it comes to settings it's pretty important. The artwork in WFRP 1E and Jorune seals the deal as to why I really dig those settings. Writing comes first, of course - In Harms Way. Then again I really like systems like BESM and OtE for example where art is not a factor at all.

Regards,
David R

If I am downloading a product that is never going to get printed up, I don't care if there is art or not.

If I am going to buy a book product, art for me is very much a welcome feature. Like Aos, I bought Earthdawn just for the art and (though the art internally varied greatly) I can still tell you the name of the artist of the pieces I liked the most (Janet Aulisio) but I couldn't tell you who wrote the system.

Mind you, I bought HoL, so I guess what I am saying it does effect my purchases but not all of them.

The adage "You can't judge a book by its cover" certainly applies to RPGs and it would be a shame to miss out on a great game just because of sub-par art.

That said, art is still relatively important in setting the tone of the rules, and in leaving that first impression when you crack that book open the first time. Although it certainly isn't the be-all, end-all when making a purchase- at least not for me.

If the setting intrigues me enough and I like the rules, I can overlook bad art.
However, to more than enough people art is significant enough such that a game designer is probably well-advised to go for high quality artwork in his products.

EDIT: Actually a much more important criterion for me is good and clear writing.. moreso than good art.

Quote from: David RFor me, when it comes to settings it's pretty important. The artwork in WFRP 1E and Jorune seals the deal as to why I really dig those settings.

I think the art in those books is pretty essential as illustrating the text. By which I mean, it gives you a visual picture of what's being described.

Art in general has three purposes. The first is to make you say, "cool!" and pick the book up and buy it. The second is to convey a mood or feeling, jokey, serious, whatever. The third is to illustrate, to make something clear. So for example despite what J_Arcane said, classic Traveller does have a few illustrations, drawings of vehicles and so on.

When describing something far out of people's everyday experience, and perhaps difficult to imagine just with words, illustrations are useful. This could be technical sorts of things like the layout of a military base, or it could be alien creatures.

Quote from: Kyle AaronI think the art in those books is pretty essential as illustrating the text. By which I mean, it gives you a visual picture of what's being described.

Very true. I suppose the same could be said for Dark Sun and Planescape.

Regards,
David R

I'm not saying art is something by which I judge a game, in fact I think the idea of critiquing the art in more than a cursory fashion in a review is silly, but I can't deny the effect it has--with Talislanta, Waste World, Secret of Zir'an, art definitely helped get their foot in the door with me. (Well, Tal's art by P.D. Breeding-Black really is great by itself.)

Anyway to answer the new question, the first piece might get my attention; I'm not crazy about the style but the scene is interesting. The second would turn me off--generic fantasy posing as far as I'm concerned.

Quote from: Acta Est FabulaI'm not talking about the frequency of art in a book (1 piece per 4 pages being the average), but I'm talking about the quality of it.

How imporant is the artwork to you when deciding to purchase that book you haven't played before?

The quality of the artwork is more important that the quality, in my opinion.  And if the book is going to be black and white or a PDF intended to be printed on B&W laser printers, then please use black and white line art rather than color art converted to grayscale.  Color art rendered in black and white usually  looks awful, in my opinion.

Yes and no. First things first, when people say "good" art, they often mean high production values and glossy full-color shit. I likes me some punchy high-contrast low-detail B&W. John Sloane, Mike Mignola (if it is color, that likewise punchy blocky look is where it's at), most of manga (I don't get why anime style illustrations would be in color... like... EVER), some of the old X&Y splatbooks from 3e, the recycled chibi-demons in Fiend Folio (3x FF) and other books, etc. Some of the old school stuff falls under a similar category for me... though some of it I still can't come to terms with. I think... I think I remember being impressed with the catoblepas?

Anyway, art is important for drawing my eye, as I got into RPGs to begin with inspired by the illustrations in the MMII (3e).

As for your stuff... I prefer the green dudes. The other one with the posers is a little odd. One of the dudes looks constipated more than anything. For a poser pic, I'd recommend putting the dudes further in the foreground, making the foreground "U"mountains or something, making the sky neon pink, and putting like four moons up there... you were going for old school Heavy Metal, I hope? Oh, and just have the people walking in a line.

QuoteSo for example despite what J_Arcane said, classic Traveller does have a few illustrations, drawings of vehicles and so on.

The only "illustrations" are a couple of diagrams explaining the sector design rules, and one of the "football field" range band system for combat.  There are no "drawings of vehicles" anywhere in the books.